Thanks for that Bant

Thanks for the guide and keeping it up to date. As someone who prides myself in learning all classes and being able to pick them up quickly combat/carnege is quite a challenge for me. I do ok. My last dummy parse http://parsely.io/parser/view/137162. (My mara is like my 6th gearing priority alt; so it is geared with 4x168 setbonus armorings 2x192 set bonus 220A mods and 220 low end enhancments. fully augmented) However, the speed of the spec is almost too much for me. What are your tricks/heuristics for slowing things down in your head and hitting the next and correct ability on time?

It is because I made a few behind the scenes changes (ie spreadsheet and non-Bioware changes) that affected the what I was getting for the damage output.

 

The big overall changes that mattered were:

• Changed rotation to Devastating Blast Focused (g_mk rotation)
  
• Tied set bonus buffs to individual abilities rather than time averaged because the rotation and use of berserk create a situation where the set bonuses will always be active during certain moves.
  

 

The reason I do these types of behind the scenes changes (and actually have my own version of patch notes) is that it is my goal to reflect in-game reality as close as possible. To supplement this, I keep an eye on Parsely to see how certain classes are doing and what rotations are being used there. (A nice side effect of posting the stats is that it is now much easier to guess people's gear than it was at this time last year)

 

Here are the Reasons for the changes:

I have had the ability to quickly switch between the rotation styles since the last week of 3.x but it didn't seem to be as beneficial in 4.0 as it was then. Usually when I make changes I test out both the standard rotation and the devastating blast rotations and leave it on the higher value. (its actually only a minor difference but o well)

 

Binding the set bonus effects to move usage was something that was suggest by g_mk months ago but I never really got around to implementing. The logic behind this is that since the rotation is set in stone and the set piece will always be triggered at known intervals it is possible to have certain buffs that I use to time average across the rotation actually affect the move 100% of the time. For example, Ravage will always be affected by the 4-set bonus because it will always be used within 10s of Berserk.

 

 

Now, Did I make Mistakes?

I undoubtedly did and will continue to make mistakes, but every revision strives to be closer to reality than the previous revision.

 

This is why you and G_mk are my idols! Thanks a ton for jumping on here and responding to that question brother.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Bahadori

Thanks for the guide and keeping it up to date. As someone who prides myself in learning all classes and being able to pick them up quickly combat/carnege is quite a challenge for me. I do ok. My last dummy parse http://parsely.io/parser/view/137162. (My mara is like my 6th gearing priority alt; so it is geared with 4x168 setbonus armorings 2x192 set bonus 220A mods and 220 low end enhancments. fully augmented) However, the speed of the spec is almost too much for me. What are your tricks/heuristics for slowing things down in your head and hitting the next and correct ability on time?

 

To be honest mate i'm not sure lol. Combat/Carnage has been my primary played spec since 2011 back in Beta. As you can imagine i feel the exact opposite. When i play other specs they all feel drastically slowed down compared to what i'm use to. I think the best answer to your question is practice and repetitiveness. The way i tend to train people in the spec is to adapt a " crawl - walk - run " training method. Start off going through the motions at say 50% speed then 70% then once you're comfortable and have a bit of muscle memory going you ramp it up to 100%. This obviously works better on dummy training than in live raid

It really is amazing how much faster it feels. It is only 6 apm(12%) faster than a spec I know/play well (tk/lightning), but it feels like it is in another gear. Do you think it might be worthwhile to gear with lower alacrity than Bant's numbers until I have practiced it enough?

It really is amazing how much faster it feels. It is only 6 apm(12%) faster than a spec I know/play well (tk/lightning), but it feels like it is in another gear. Do you think it might be worthwhile to gear with lower alacrity than Bant's numbers until I have practiced it enough?

 

That is one tactic you could try. Honestly though you control how fast you go. You could slow the spec down by 6 APM just by hitting buttons slower, that is another method you could use. Either method however you'll see a big drop in DPS output. Bloody Slashes accounts for approximately 2% of overall DPS, aside from this Burn every ability you have is direct damage. Any amount of time you spend not activating your next ability is a huge DPS loss overall.

If you want to try a no alacrity build, I recommend reaching about 1400 crit and dumping the rest into power, at full 224 you loose about 3 APM and 75 dps by changing alacrity for power.

If you want to try a no alacrity build, I recommend reaching about 1400 crit and dumping the rest into power, at full 224 you loose about 3 APM and 75 dps by changing alacrity for power.

 

I was thinking just that. My logic is that having all that extra alacrity is no good if you can't hit the right abilities on c/d. Replacing alacrity with anything else (well not def, shield, abs, acc :-P) would be a dps increase at the slower apm that I am capable of right now.

I was thinking just that. My logic is that having all that extra alacrity is no good if you can't hit the right abilities on c/d. Replacing alacrity with anything else (well not def, shield, abs, acc :-P) would be a dps increase at the slower apm that I am capable of right now.

 

 

 

 

My only thought on this method of getting the rotation down is that the speed is an inherent part of the rotation. Like Hayete, I have been a diehard Carnage/Combat user since I first started the game about four years ago, and any other discipline feels like a snail's pace in comparison. While a slowed down version of carnage might help you learn the rotation "order", it will hinder your ability to respond to the fast paced demands the discipline requires based on it's speed in responding to raid mechanics, movement, target switching and

priority demands. You will make mistakes in the rotation sometimes in live raids,hell I make mistakes on a motionless dummy sometimes heh [a motionless dummy that somehow still has the capacity to dodge from time to time heh], the speed with which you correct your rotation will also obviously effect your dps output. The speed of the spec is at the very heart of Ataru and it's rotation. The DPS the spec is capable of is based on that speed, you really can't separate the two without effecting both.

 

A baby step approach may certainly be possible. But you really won't know what you are capable of until the speed and the mastery of the rotation are operating succinctly.

 

No one knows the spec better than Hayete. You really can't ever go wrong with his advice. From my own experience I'd caution a lack of alacrity. The DPS loss from it's absence is extreme and even a perfectly executed rotation will often fail to include the full array of your most damaging attacks in the gore window the rotation seeks to ensure. Most notably clipping in the Ravage/DB Gore window becomes more difficult to execute properly in the time frame afforded to the gore window. Given the limited time the gore windows gives, the speed at which you execute your attacks plays a pivotal role in the spec.

 

Besides, the speed is the funnest part of the spec!

 

Whatever you decide, best of luck to you. Carnage/Combat is one of the most dynamic specs in the game and a ton of fun.

Edited February 18, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

Most notably clipping in the Ravage/DB Gore window becomes more difficult to execute properly in the time frame afforded to the gore window. Given the limited time the gore windows gives, the speed at which you execute your attacks plays a pivotal role in the spec.

^

This is something important to take into account, alacrity makes it easier to properly fit everything into PS, specially when you are learning.

Thanks for all the advice. I can't wait to have time to get in the game and practice it. Based on one key thing that I did not realize/remember or truly learn in the first place, gore/precision doesn't respect gcd/alacrity, I am not going to de-alacrify. Instead I am gonna try to learn it the hard I mean fun way that I've learned every other spec. PVP, Flashpoints, and H2 farming.

Thanks for all the advice. I can't wait to have time to get in the game and practice it. Based on one key thing that I did not realize/remember or truly learn in the first place, gore/precision doesn't respect gcd/alacrity, I am not going to de-alacrify. Instead I am gonna try to learn it the hard I mean fun way that I've learned every other spec. PVP, Flashpoints, and H2 farming.

 

Sounds like a plan brother. If you have any issues or if any questions come to mind feel free to let me know. Good luck and enjoy!

Thanks for all the advice. I can't wait to have time to get in the game and practice it. Based on one key thing that I did not realize/remember or truly learn in the first place, gore/precision doesn't respect gcd/alacrity, I am not going to de-alacrify. Instead I am gonna try to learn it the hard I mean fun way that I've learned every other spec. PVP, Flashpoints, and H2 farming.

 

Let's be fair nez, we could steal all your gear and you would still find a way to pull 6k with legacy punches

Update:

 

- Rotation Chapter has been redesigned and updated with next rotations for both guides

- New rotation example videos have been added for both guides

Edited September 18, 2016 by Bahadori