I believe these have fallen victim to the completely frustrating Ultimate Pack model, which I excoriated in this post here, as it is especially abysmal as a means of getting new decorations actually out into the game.

I have been searching the GTNs on both SS and SF all week and have not seen a single copy of any of these decos. Not one.

In the past, I would have assumed this meant there was a bug and that a deco hadn't made it into a pack. But with the Ultimate Pack model, that cannot be safely assumed, because it is perfectly feasible that playing the RNG game against the entire history of the CM means these decos are almost never dropping, and when they do people are probably using them not selling them. All of the new decos that have been released since they shifted to the Ultimate Pack model (there have been three new sets of decos released since then) have been exceedingly rare on the GTN and their prices are through the roof.

Decos already suffer from a severe imbalance between supply (not enough) and demand (huge demand because multiples are usually required). I don't like the Ultimate Pack model for other reasons, but decos especially suffer. What's the point of making new decos if they are made so rare as to be the equivalent of Platinums and thus never actually being used by the majority of your players?

I strongly believe that if they are going to stick with the Ultimate Pack model then all new decos should be released as reasonably priced direct sale bundles. Even if they're not unified by a particular theme, they could still be the "Autumn 2018 Bundle" or whatever. Though creating decos by theme isn't a bad idea anyway, so no reason not to keep on. (The Mando and Sith bundles recently released were some of the best decos released in a long time.)

It's not too late to release these beach themed decos as a bundle either. The Rishi SH is still new enough that a bundle could still count as being released to coincide with it.

(As a side note, it looks like that Swimwear outfit wasn't added to Collections either so maybe it got missed in the CM updates? I do hope they end up releasing it anyway, because it looks like a good outfit for piece mix/matching in outfit making.)

They show up in the decoration window but they just say Cartel Market. So far it looks like all the new armor(s), flair and tuning are hitting the CM Store first. I have to wonder if the decos are going to be the same.

I haven't seen them listed on the GTN on any server so it doesn't seem like they are in the pack yet.

They show up in the decoration window but they just say Cartel Market.

That is the tooltip listing for all decos released in the Ultimate Packs, and has been since the Ultimate Pack model was implemented. (I may or may not be a crazy psycho who has complied all decos into a database spreadsheet and tracks source text.) I believe this is because the Ultimate Pack is just "the" cartel market pack now and no longer can be cited as a named pack for a source. You can reference other decos released only in the Ultimate Packs (like Torch's Floor Tile) and see that they have the same tooltip.

So unfortunately, it's now very hard to tell whether or not a deco was mistakenly not released (a bug) or if it was released and has just fallen victim to the crappy-for-new-items Ultimate Pack model. Not coincidentally, this exact issue (the players not being able to reliably help in pointing out release bugs) was one I called out months ago when we were all providing feedback on the Ultimate Pack model change and I was arguing for it being a bad model. Grrrrr....

Even new armors and stuff that have not been released yet for direct sale have been rolled into the Ultimate Pack model and are dropping - for example, there was one Distinguished Warrior armor set someone got lucky enough to get that was being sold on SS for ridiculous credits. So presuming the decos weren't left out as a bug, most likely they've just been rendered so rare that they're essentially unavailable.

I believe these have fallen victim to the completely frustrating Ultimate Pack model, which I excoriated in this post here, as it is especially abysmal as a means of getting new decorations actually out into the game.

2 Hypercrates, 0 of those items. not one.. and two (2) Cartel Certificates. and Bioware you can take those Socorro <anything> and <bleep> them. They don't sell, I can't even vendor them for 1 credit.. They're GARBAGE.

I CANNOT wait to get the beach stuff and also the Hutt. I need that Hutt to preside over the merriment. Must have the Hutt!

I also still want to play a Hutt character, maybe a special Hutt class can be made some day. Hutt! Hutt! Hutt!!!

One thing I am worried about is both the towels and umbrella are listed as a floor covering. If they end up needing rug slots you won't even be able to place them together.

Unfortunately, that's going to be too true. I mean, the initial version of Rishi on the PTS didn't even have any floor covering hooks on the beach at all until we called it out. And I know I at least asked for lots more floor hooks on the beach for precisely this beach towel reason, but alas.

Still, one or two beach towels is better than none, if only we could actually get our hands on the dang decos!

And I also can't wait for the Hutt! I NEED that Hutt! The number of times I've had to use the Karagga statue or the Hutt holo trainer to stand in for a Hutt in a RP scene in an otherwise carefully crafted Hutt Palace stronghold set, just... ugggggh. Will be so happy to finally have a Hutt deco! I hope he fits on a Medium and smaller (not something ridiculous like a Large) so that we can try to get him to load in on top of the Hutt lounger deco.

Hutt Crime Boss uses a medium hook.

Yessss! I am so ready to go. Hutts on loungers everywhere! (Thank goodness this one is coming out in a bundle and I don't have resign myself to hoping for the chance to pay 50 million credits for a single Hutt deco because it will be lost in the Ultimate Pack morass.)

the issue with the Dulfy article is the fact that it pulls all the new items with a new patch. But if you pay attention to past releases, they never release everything all at once. but wait a week in between each release. So we will no doubt see the Crime lord pack plus the beach decos, and the last of the new armor in either one week, or two weeks altogether. Just have to have patience.

I hope you're right, Crazy. However, for the majority of this year (since they switched to the Ultimate Pack model), we have had batches of new decorations released with each major patch/update that were in fact exclusive only to the Ultimate Pack. Those decos, as a result, have been exceedingly rare and very difficult to come by. The beach themed decos are currently source-labeled in exactly the same way as those previous decos have been, which leads me to believe, based on precedent, that they are also only available in the Ultimate Pack and should have been included in it when the loot table updated (just like the Ultimate Pack is already dropping the Distinguished Warrior armor set).

That being said, it's not too late for them to change their minds and release the beach-themed decos as a bundle. I hope they do! I would prefer the Drink Bucket not end up like the Dread Torch or the Cantina Speaker and be completely unnecessarily super-rare and impossible to collect in quantity.

That being said, it's not too late for them to change their minds and release the beach-themed decos as a bundle. I hope they do! I would prefer the Drink Bucket not end up like the Dread Torch or the Cantina Speaker and be completely unnecessarily super-rare and impossible to collect in quantity.

Yes, just make a Beach mini deco pack!

4 of like each for 1200cc or something of the like.

Please Eric, can you send this request to the team?!?!?! lol

Unfortunately, that's going to be too true. I mean, the initial version of Rishi on the PTS didn't even have any floor covering hooks on the beach at all until we called it out. And I know I at least asked for lots more floor hooks on the beach for precisely this beach towel reason, but alas.

 

Still, one or two beach towels is better than none, if only we could actually get our hands on the dang decos!

 

And I also can't wait for the Hutt! I NEED that Hutt! The number of times I've had to use the Karagga statue or the Hutt holo trainer to stand in for a Hutt in a RP scene in an otherwise carefully crafted Hutt Palace stronghold set, just... ugggggh. Will be so happy to finally have a Hutt deco! I hope he fits on a Medium and smaller (not something ridiculous like a Large) so that we can try to get him to load in on top of the Hutt lounger deco.

That would be brilliant if we could fit the Hutt on the lounger

so that we can try to get him to load in on top of the Hutt lounger deco.

Well if they do it right they're going to give you one on a lounger, and one 'standing' (do they stand???).. etc. Surprised it has taken this long.. Not like they don't have Hutt models in the game all over the place.

I fear the hutt will not be displayed on top of the lounger, just like the Zabrak pirate is not. I am glad that we finally get one (so I can finish Tatooine which I've been decorating for a year now), but a little disappointed, that we don't get a big lounging Hutt on a large hook including a large version of the lounger. Like the one in the back of the casino during the casino event or during several quests. This one will look like a generic version of Doc Ogg in the Alliance HQ I think.

Also agree on new decos being released in the ultimate packs - it's frustrating. I decided a while ago that I won't buy these packs anymore.

I fear the hutt will not be displayed on top of the lounger, just like the Zabrak pirate is not. I am glad that we finally get one (so I can finish Tatooine which I've been decorating for a year now), but a little disappointed, that we don't get a big lounging Hutt on a large hook including a large version of the lounger. Like the one in the back of the casino during the casino event or during several quests. This one will look like a generic version of Doc Ogg in the Alliance HQ I think.

Alas, you're probably right. I'll try anyway, but we'll see. Honestly, I think it would be great if they gave us both - the Hutt we currently see forthcoming in the bundle, and then another deco after that is a combined Hutt-on-a-Lounger. (Much like I'd really, really like to see another deco that is a combined Ortolan-behind-a-Nalargon. Max Reebo's ancestor needs to take the stage.)

Also agree on new decos being released in the ultimate packs - it's frustrating. I decided a while ago that I won't buy these packs anymore.

Ugh, so frustrating! I'm going to bring it up every opportunity I can because I dearly hope the devs will listen.

Ugh, so frustrating! I'm going to bring it up every opportunity I can because I dearly hope the devs will listen.

Based on this statement... you want to chase the studio all over the place "at every opportunity" demanding that your "personal frustrations" be listened to and addressed?

Here's the thing though....

First... tease and delay availability just a bit to create buzz and demand.... followed by two rounds of selling, followed by some additional variants on an in-game merchant, as follows:

Phase 1: Really coveted and desired items have a pattern of being very rare and dropping initially from within a Cartel Pack. You don't have to like it... but that is the reality.

Phase 2: Later on.. they do go back and bundle items into their own packs or bundles and sell those as well, and in some cases direct single item sales. I would not be surprised to see them enter this phase within weeks... before interest in the new SH wears off and people get preoccupied with whatever else new there is to distract them.

Phase 3: they will toss one or two additional variants on decoration merchants later on.. when a lot of the passionate demand has faded. And they will probably require certificates to get them.. so they still won't be low hanging fruit that falls from trees.

The above is a classic selling model in a free market economy... both inside games and in the real world. It is designed to harvest maximum sales initially, followed later on by a second round of sales for more specific purposes (ie: to harvest the remaining sales left to be had in the available market). Again.. you don't have to like it, but it is what it is... and honestly it has worked out pretty well for this particular MMO.

Besides..... nothing prevents you from buying coveted CM items directly from other players on the GTN once they are released ... other than perhaps your not wanting to pay what the free market between players dictates.

Patient players will succeed in obtaining anything they want from the CM.. either directly or indirectly (GTN). In the mean time.. they will use other items that give the rough fulfillment of the upcoming beach decos and wait for the actual items to become available to them. The impatient... always seem to want to negotiate "better terms" for their wants and needs.

Note: I am in no way saying that players cannot or should not make suggestions and requests.... but to get so worked up about it seems a bit over the top for some digital pixels. Personally, I will have all the beach decos I desire once they release ... and I won't worry about how they sell them (direct, or random packs, or both) ... because I will get them from the GTN.

Phase 2 could possibly happen way down the road. They did release the Corporate Retreat Decoration Bundle back in April. That was the first time they've taken pack decorations and put them together. Hopefully they consider that possibility before the desire for them dries up.

Phase 3 I can't see happening. I could be wrong but it has been how many years since the Cartel Certificate vendor in the SH area has been updated? Even when updating the cert vendors in the Fleet Bazaar area they just changed a name. The titles and ranks were just copied over from an existing reputation. They don't really seem to want to touch these vendors outside adding certificates back into pack circulation for the time being. Maybe this will change in the future. I think we'll have to see if pack buying metrics change now that people have a chance to get a cert instead of an item.

I do agree if we want them we will be paying the market value. If anything like the speaker and pazaak table decorations we will be looking at 20m to 50m an item. If someones having a lucky day maybe you will catch them lower.

I CANNOT wait to get the beach stuff and also the Hutt. I need that Hutt to preside over the merriment. Must have the Hutt!

 

I also still want to play a Hutt character, maybe a special Hutt class can be made some day. Hutt! Hutt! Hutt!!!

I also can’t wait for the hutt. Jabba Palace theme has been my hope since day zero

I wonder about the new decorations, especially the ones that say they come from the Prefab vendors. Any idea when those will actually be available on the vendors?

As far as rare decos dropping from packs -- I'm not going to buy Ultimate packs. I will keep buying at least one of all the decoration Bundles. I'm enjoying my new bounty hunter personnel right now. I'll buy a new pack that's in the same style as the old packs. But I'm not spending hard-earned money on bad odds.

Hopefully there will be a Beach bundle soon!

I wonder about the new decorations, especially the ones that say they come from the Prefab vendors. Any idea when those will actually be available on the vendors?

 

As far as rare decos dropping from packs -- I'm not going to buy Ultimate packs. I will keep buying at least one of all the decoration Bundles. I'm enjoying my new bounty hunter personnel right now. I'll buy a new pack that's in the same style as the old packs. But I'm not spending hard-earned money on bad odds.

 

Hopefully there will be a Beach bundle soon!

If you are talking about the walls (sith walls) they are already on the militia droid vendor. He is a new droid vendor that is located next to the other ones. There is also a very large decoration that is used on the sky deck pvp area.

Based on this statement... you want to chase the studio all over the place "at every opportunity" demanding that your "personal frustrations" be listened to and addressed?

Well... as a very literal reading of my emotional flailing... sure! In that case, though, I will need to brush up on my stalking skills, because my version of "every opportunity" is currently a post about the CM every couple months and then eager participation in a forum topic about beach towels. With the thickness of the skin that I'm sure Eric has developed, I'll probably need to do a lot better than that to be effective...

Note: I am in no way saying that players cannot or should not make suggestions and requests.... but to get so worked up about it seems a bit over the top for some digital pixels.

It's all digital pixels, man! (I'm imagining that said in the tone of voice of The Dude, for full effect.) But really. It is all just digital pixels. There's no reason for any of us to get worked up by anything. No reason for us to spend years of our time talking about it on a forum either. No reason for us to care about any of it - not decos, not PVP, not PVE, not any of it. But we do care, because it's not about reason. This game, and all that it facilitates for me (RP, decorating, PVE, PVP) is one of my main hobbies, so I reserve the right to get a little bit worked up about it - especially since it's something I spend hard-earned money on, particularly through the CM.

The CM is a market. You rightly pointed out market "rules." Producers in a market should also, generally speaking, be listening to the desires of their customers. Sure, it's usually the customers who are at the mercy of (and willing participants in) the psychological manipulation of market strategies, but every customer has a breaking point. I figure it's better for the devs to hear about people's breaking points so that they can make informed decisions.

You outlined three phases, and I think you are spot-on in all of those phases and it being the way they've historically handled CM sales (as well as being spot-on with why it was effective). However, this model is not exactly how it is happening now, in 2018. With the introduction of the Ultimate Pack and the shift toward Direct Purchases, the model we've seen since March is, in some important ways, no longer the model you outlined. That is where my frustration lies.

In the current model, really coveted items are being released for Direct Purchase at the same time (or within a week or two) as they become available in the packs. This means that availability for them is guaranteed (for those willing to pay). They are no longer driving up demand via scarcity on these direct sale items, they are trying to drive demand via quality and accessibility - and it would seem to be a model that is working for them, in this respect. I suspect a switch to Direct Purchases has ended up being profitable or they wouldn't still be continuing it five months down the line from when they implemented it.

What you described in Phase 2 and 3, about thematically targeted bundles later on, and variants on merchants, will probably still happen the same way, I'm sure. No reason for them not to.

But what I was attempting to say throughout this topic, and in other places, is that the change to the Ultimate Pack + Direct Purchases as it is currently structured leaves some very specific but significant gaps that didn't used to exist.

While armor sets, mounts, and weapons are being released via Direct Purchase in conjunction with the packs, the packs themselves are different such that the number of NEW goods which are entering the market is no longer what it used to be. Direct Purchase items do not go up for GTN sale as often because the cost for the seller to acquire them is higher. The drop chance of new items in the Ultimate Packs is lower than it used to be in named packs by untold orders of magnitude. This has made the supply on the GTN more scarce, and driven the prices on the GTN up higher. While this does not make me happy, I fully accept that I still have an alternate means to acquire them (Direct Purchase) and that it is now my choice which path to take, with the understanding that the studio is going to do what is profitable for them and not what makes me happy.

BUT. Decorations, very significantly, fall into that GAP I mentioned, the one that didn't used to exist. And I am specifically talking about decorations that are available ONLY in the Ultimate Packs.

Because the drop chance for NEW items in the Ultimate Packs is so abysmally low, it means very few of them make it to the GTN. And for these new decos we don't have the option to buy them Direct Purchase. Couple this with the fact that decos are needed in multiples by most decorators and the problem gets even worse. With the old pack model, with everyone getting at least one new item in every pack they opened, new decos were readily available on the GTN. "Fair market price" was established accordingly and players still had to choose how to balance patience, credit value, and $ value. But at least the decos were available.

So, when you say -

Besides..... nothing prevents you from buying coveted CM items directly from other players on the GTN once they are released ...

- my counter-argument is that availability prevents me from buying them from other players on the GTN. There just aren't many of these decos in circulation in the market at all, because of the current model.

Personally, I will have all the beach decos I desire once they release ... and I won't worry about how they sell them (direct, or random packs, or both) ... because I will get them from the GTN.

Are you an avid decorator that has had much luck getting the new decos this way? I mean that as a sincere question, not sarcasm. And I ask because my personal experience doesn't bear this out, so it's good to hear what other people's experiences have been.

Setting aside the question of these beach-themed decos (which may or may not have been mistakenly left out of the Ultimate Pack's loot table update), let's go back and look at data for all the other decos that have been released ONLY in the Ultimate Packs since the Ultimate Pack was implemented. Below is a list of those decos, and how many copies of each are available right now on SS and SF.

For each deco where the availability is more than 5 on either server I am highlighting them in green, meaning there's enough supply for more than one player and enough to create market pressure between sellers.

For each deco where availability is 5 or less I am highlighting them in yellow, meaning there is limited availability that doesn't create much of in the way of market pressure at all (so it's not buyer friendly).

For each deco where availibility is 3 or less I am highlighting them in orange, meaning that we're looking at serious scarcity.

And where availability is just 1 I am highlighting them in red (no reliable availability to speak of), and where it's 0 I am putting them in red and underlining them.

Acropolis Crystal Sconce - SS: 0 , SF: 0

Arrangement: Authenticator Stall - SS: 1 @ 25 million, SF: 1 @ 65 million

Arrangement: Pazaak Table - SS: 3 @ 9-18 million, SF: 5 @ 9-10 million

Arrangement: Smuggler's Cantina Lounge - SS: 4 @ 30-75 million

Banner: Anchorhead (Hanging) - SS: 0, SF: 3 @21-30 million

Banner: House Organa (Standing) - SS: 1 @ 5 million, SF: 4 @ 1.5-2 million

Banner: Separatist Movement (Hanging) - SS: 3 @ 6 million, SF: 3 @ 3.5 million

Bounty Board (Ceiling) - SS: 1 @ 12 million, SF: 2 @ 20-40 million

Bounty Board Holotable - SS: 2 @ 12 million, SF: 0

Cantina Speakers - SS: 1 @ 25 million, SF: 3 @ 25 million

Dread Wall Torch - SS: 4 @5-7 million, SF: 2 @ 7-8 million

Killik Mound - SS: 2 @ 5 million, SF: 1 @ 10 million

Mercenaries Table - SS: 0, SF: 3 @ 35-48 million

Nalargon - SS: 1 @ 15 million, SF: 4 @ 22-50 million

Spaceport Terminals - SS: 2 @ 6-10 million, SF: 2 @ 45 million

Torch's Floor Tile - SS: 1 @ 10 million, SF: 2 @ 15 million

As you can see there isn't a single deco in green.

I would also argue that a price of 25 million for a single Cantina Speaker is ridiculous. I don't blame the sellers (they are just recognizing how rare their item is), I blame the distribution model. There is no reason whatsoever for these decos to be this rare. I honestly don't believe that this can be what the devs intended, to make EVERY NEW DECO in the pack the equivalent of a Platinum in rarity.

And remember, there is no other way to get these decos, and the oldest on this list have now been out for five months. We are way past the point of reasonably assuming that they are somehow trying to deliberately increase demand via scarcity. (The flip side being that they're also too recent to have reached the point of "scarce because very old and harder to come by.") Not to mention the fact that many people didn't even know these decos existed, which I have to think can't possibly be a deliberate approach the studio is choosing to take... ?

So. All of that is just my very detailed and evidence-providing way of saying what I said earlier all throughout this thread and in other places: If they're going to keep the Ultimate Pack (which I hate, but I'm just one person), then in the interest of actually making a profit on these decos and actually getting them into the hands of their players they should make all new decorations available via Direct Purchase bundles. As it currently stands, by releasing decos exclusively in the Ultimate Pack the result is that they are not getting into the market at all in any statistically relevant way.

If you are talking about the walls (sith walls) they are already on the militia droid vendor. He is a new droid vendor that is located next to the other ones. There is also a very large decoration that is used on the sky deck pvp area.

Yep! It's the same vendor (and in the same place) that they were at on the PTS. I've been crafting them up like crazy. These walls are frankly amazing, they have completely changed what I am able to achieve in blocking off rooms and changing their structure (and outright creating structures). I am so happy that they released them, and even more happy that they listened to PTS feedback and made them fit on smaller hooks.