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Fix Juggernauts in PVP -- WAY OP!`

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Fix Juggernauts in PVP -- WAY OP!`

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
10.14.2019 , 08:42 AM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
His argument is ranked no longer poses these variables. I mean, if he doesn't experience any of the variables you listed above I guess his perspective is an honest one on his behalf but it's hard to believe.

Personally I view such an idyllic scenario regarding ranked more delusional than anything else. That or it's a matter of simply being so entrenched in a narrative that the truth has to be ignored.
His argument is that, given you play enough games, the variables like who was on your team and what classes were on which team, any potential winttaders, etc, will tend to even themselves out due to sheer numbers played. Which is true enough, in a large randomly distributed population.

My doubt lies in the last assumption. Is the solo ranked queue large and randomly distributed, or is it like the same 30(or whatever) guys queuing day after day.

Personally I agree that yes, there really is no truly meaningful PvP and I participate in the parts of it I do because I enjoy doing it, plain and simple. I think that if you're trying to show off your skills there are probably better games out there for you.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
10.14.2019 , 09:23 AM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
His argument is that, given you play enough games, the variables like who was on your team and what classes were on which team, any potential winttaders, etc, will tend to even themselves out due to sheer numbers played. Which is true enough, in a large randomly distributed population.

My doubt lies in the last assumption. Is the solo ranked queue large and randomly distributed, or is it like the same 30(or whatever) guys queuing day after day.
There is certainly a core group of solo ranked players, but there are a lot more random people that queue than many seem to realize. Both my experience and the leaderboards prove that (unless you believe that every ranked pvper has 10+ alts each, which is clearly not the case).

Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Personally I agree that yes, there really is no truly meaningful PvP and I participate in the parts of it I do because I enjoy doing it, plain and simple. I think that if you're trying to show off your skills there are probably better games out there for you.
This is a totally fair perspective. I've said many times in the past that at the end of the day, this is mmo pvp. You basically just mash buttons. It doesn't require nearly the skill to succeed at as other competitive online games.

I've also said before that I play solo ranked for fun. I quite enjoy arenas, and ranked has a competitiveness that regs doesn't.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
10.14.2019 , 11:40 AM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
This discussion has been had in other threads. If you think solo ranked is meaningless, that's perfectly fine, that just means that there is no meaningful pvp in this game for you. The point is that solo ranked is the only meaningful pvp left in the game because group ranked is completely dead.
There's no meaningful pvp in this game period. Solo ranked has barely 20 people who consistently queue and there's no 8v8 ranked or pvp gear so regs are literally the epitome of meaningless.

CaptRogue's Avatar


CaptRogue
10.14.2019 , 12:40 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
We 4 noobs were entering the PvP instance of Ilum a few days ago ...
At the pillar [Heroic 4] a Juggernaught kind of waited for us. Or, whatever, there was already a fight going on when I arrived there.

He beat us 4 noobs. I just couldn't understand it, even me with my Commando,, his health was constantly going down, and I had thought he was dead at one point, but I couldn't see that perfectly because so many ability animations wrre overlapping there ... and suddenly he emerged again and beat every one left of us.
Therein lies the answer to your statement.

4 noobs. You faced someone who knows their class really well vs 4 of yall, who do not/don't PvP.
That will almost always result in the win to the one who knows their class over the numbers who don't.
Also, unclear if you meant PvP instance as flagged for PvP or the PvP area near the Pylon charging area. But if you meant the map, then good chance he had a lvl 50 comp on heals also.
You already stated you couldn't see a lot due to graphics so his comp was standing just off to the side.

Unless he died, he didn't disappear & then emerge to beat everyone one of yall left. Jugg's do not have a disappear.
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
10.14.2019 , 03:41 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by CaptRogue View Post
Therein lies the answer to your statement.

4 noobs. You faced someone who knows their class really well vs 4 of yall, who do not/don't PvP.
That will almost always result in the win to the one who knows their class over the numbers who don't.
Also, unclear if you meant PvP instance as flagged for PvP or the PvP area near the Pylon charging area. But if you meant the map, then good chance he had a lvl 50 comp on heals also.
You already stated you couldn't see a lot due to graphics so his comp was standing just off to the side.

Unless he died, he didn't disappear & then emerge to beat everyone one of yall left. Jugg's do not have a disappear.
100% this ^^

steveerkcanjerk's Avatar


steveerkcanjerk
10.15.2019 , 11:37 AM | #106
When it comes to dps jugg, they are honestly fine. Two rapid shots will pop through their enraged defense. Don't shoot the reflect and you are good to go. But where the jugg does need a nerf is the damage a skank tank can output and out consistently it does it. A tank should not be hitting as hard as a dps, it just shouldn't be and if you think that is balance then that definition needs to be adjusted. A tank's job is to mitigate damage for the team not be one of the hardest hitting people on the field. On my skank jugg i have hit 30k+ crits and that is literally sleeping walking there. I feel this is where people feel the most frustration, it also is a bit unbalanced because as a dps i can't make a heal/dps variant of my class. It is basically being a hybrid spec when you skank it. If other classes could do the same or the other tanks like sins and pt's could perform at the same level that would be a different story. But in the tank spec in ranked or in regs the skank tank has a ton of durability and is dishing out way to much damage for its role. But dps juggs are fine and i feel for those boys in 4's.

Also no parts of this game show pure skill, there is a cap to all classes in just how the mechanics of the game work. Solo's is the same way alot of the time, you are thrown together with randoms and pray they they have half a clue of what they are doing because if you have one bad egg it often is a loss. Or worse when the healer gives the wink to their buddy on the other team decides now is the time to stop healing ooops.
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Monterone's Avatar


Monterone
10.15.2019 , 12:41 PM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
We 4 noobs were entering the PvP instance of Ilum a few days ago ... I hate that instance, asked : "Why PvP instance"
"Because there are fewer people" was the answer.

At the pillar [Heroic 4] a Juggernaught kind of waited for us. Or, whatever, there was already a fight going on when I arrived there.

He beat us 4 noobs. I just couldn't understand it, even me with my Commando,, his health was constantly going down, and I had thought he was dead at one point, but I couldn't see that perfectly because so many ability animations wrre overlapping there ... and suddenly he emerged again and beat every one left of us.

Before I left group I wrote "and that's why I never enter the PvP instance".
My fingers were twitching to put that guy on ignore, but in the end I didn't do that.

Later, I managed to kill all 3 [Heroic] pillar droids alone in the PvE instance of that PvP area with my commando.
A guildy then came and we finished that quest there.

There are two sides to this. As others have already said it's 4 noobs who may not understand their characters fully.

On the other hand, some classes are just built better than others. That juggernaut may have been the best player this game has ever had, and played a perfect match against the four of you. But that same player would not have been able to pull that off with a deception assassin, or a madness sorc or an AP pt. It does not matter how good a player they are.

Even with 4 bads, even if they have no clue what they're doing, they will whittle down the health of one person. A class has to have multiple ways to heal to full in order to survive that long. Skill is very important, but in that scenario being a juggernaut played an even bigger role. The classes I listed may have control, may have stealth, but they just don't have the DCDs equal to a jugg in order to pull off that feat.

Juggernaut is a very, very new player friendly class that has many good tools at their disposal. It is a very easy class to play for new players and allows for mistakes to be made and to live through them and try again. Put that into the hands of an expert and you have a force to behold.
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steveerkcanjerk's Avatar


steveerkcanjerk
10.15.2019 , 12:53 PM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Monterone View Post
There are two sides to this. As others have already said it's 4 noobs who may not understand their characters fully.

On the other hand, some classes are just built better than others. That juggernaut may have been the best player this game has ever had, and played a perfect match against the four of you. But that same player would not have been able to pull that off with a deception assassin, or a madness sorc or an AP pt. It does not matter how good a player they are.

Even with 4 bads, even if they have no clue what they're doing, they will whittle down the health of one person. A class has to have multiple ways to heal to full in order to survive that long. Skill is very important, but in that scenario being a juggernaut played an even bigger role. The classes I listed may have control, may have stealth, but they just don't have the DCDs equal to a jugg in order to pull off that feat.

Juggernaut is a very, very new player friendly class that has many good tools at their disposal. It is a very easy class to play for new players and allows for mistakes to be made and to live through them and try again. Put that into the hands of an expert and you have a force to behold.
couldn't agree more because even if take tanks spec into account, a pt tank or sin tank would not be able to pull lthat either
the mandalorians will rise again, we will unite and make the galaxy bow.
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dreadshots mandalorian mercanary