I think you're confused about the definition of 'entitled'.

 

People who are most impacted - raiders - are paying for the game. They experienced a change they dislike. They are voicing their dislike for the change to the company they pay to entertain them.

 

That's not entitlement. It's being a good, fair consumer. At least they're giving the company a chance to respond before taking their money elsewhere.

Voicing your disagreement or displeasure with a decision may not be "entitled". Expecting a bug that you don't like to be fixed, but one that benefits you to be ignored or embraced, however, is an "entitled" attitude.

People are refusing to run dailies, or find some other way to make the credits to pay for repairs. Having a method in place and available to solve a problem, but refusing to use it-expecting someone else to solve or eliminate the problem, is an "entitled" attitude.

GM here as well, and it is not an issue for us. Essentially, the guild bank is available for repairs but everyone has a cap on how much they can use in repairs per week. That coupled with players diligently contributing to the bank on a weekly basis makes the repair costs a mild annoyance nothing more.

 

So... essentially, the guild and players are dividing up the hit and it isn't a huge deal at the moment.

 

Ops are running as scheduled.

If this works, which experience tells us it will not, then you are a rarity.

Come back and let us know how many people have stopped showing up in a few weeks, how many of your top raiders have stopped doing anything that will not yield them gear or profit. We've been here before. They didn't learn then so I tend to think that they will not now and your assumptions are not helping the reality of the situation.

There are no effective gold sinks, a gold sink this strong that applies to absolutely everyone will create deflation to a point where the attempts to avoid inflation has caused an economic collapse where no one can afford to buy anything. You can't apply a blanket drain like this, you have to chip away from different angles like the ones suggested so you don't reduce it too drastically.

 

Also the repair costs were already a penalty, it wasn't a broken feature, casual players were just able to stay afloat and enjoy themselves. No one was negatively effective by the supposed bug, if you claim your game was somehow impacted negatively then go ahead and explain how.

There are effective gold sinks - that's why games use them (and employ bonafide economists as consultants). The repair costs were broken in that not all players were being charged the correct amount for the costs. The patch fixed that and now have brought the adaptive gear in line with what everyone else was paying. Whether a new bug was introduced or not because of this fix still remains to be determined.

BJ

Voicing your disagreement or displeasure with a decision may not be "entitled". Expecting a bug that you don't like to be fixed, but one that benefits you to be ignored or embraced, however, is an "entitled" attitude.

I guess Toyota customers weren't entitled for the bug in their breakes to be fixed.

The patch fixed that and now have brought the adaptive gear in line with what everyone else was paying.

It's a miracle then how my repair costs went up three times without me wearing a single piece of adaptive armor. To make matters worse, this miracle is not limited solely to me. I could have lived with being that one special snowflake, but this... This just makes me want to ask for handouts.

2hours of hm ec with 3 new people equaled lots of wipes and almost a 300k repair bill, my guild does help with repair cost, but we are not a large guild. we can not afford to run an op and pay for everyone bills. Our credits are used to purchase mats, tip crafters and loans to guild members, not to provide an in game welfare system to brigde the gap of repair costs. please fix this bw.

 

 

Also agree with what is said above^^

You are going to hear, "its fine" from the very few well established raiding guilds who's members spend inordinate amounts of their life in this game, for whom a repeated large repair bill is no issue. For the rest of the players. It will matter a great deal.

This one is going to blow up in their faces. Heck, it already is. My low level tank was getting instant queues until last night. Waiting up to an hour now. My main? Not running Ops for the sake of running ops, helping others gear, or anything else. If its not progression that will yield me gear worth 300k in repairs, its not happening. I'd have to be a bit of an idiot to do otherwise.

The problem this has created is written like a flash burnt across the sky. If one is not seeing it, they simply do not want to.

Ok, do you know how bad repair costs are in WoW? Pretty much as bad as this, and people don't seem to complain about it there. Soooo you have it easy and buzz off basically

This is not true. I've raided in both games. The cost is vastly different. In fact, Blizzard lowered repair bills for the same reason.

Ok, do you know how bad repair costs are in WoW? Pretty much as bad as this, and people don't seem to complain about it there. Soooo you have it easy and buzz off basically

So, what you're saying is - if a group of people eats Blizzard's excrement in silence, we - the players of SWTOR - should follow suit and eat BioWare's, comforted by the knowledge that we "had it easy" once?

Excuse me while I go shoot myself in the foot.

The repair costs were broken in that not all players were being charged the correct amount for the costs. The patch fixed that and now have brought the adaptive gear in line with what everyone else was paying. Whether a new bug was introduced or not because of this fix still remains to be determined.BJ

Yes, but the repair costs are too high right now, especially for casual players. I see nothing wrong in lowering them.

It's a miracle then how my repair costs went up three times without me wearing a single piece of adaptive armor. To make matters worse, this miracle is not limited solely to me. I could have lived with being that one special snowflake, but this... This just makes me want to ask for handouts.

It could be more than just that, I am assuming adaptive gear was at least part of the issue, but since I don't wear it can't say for certain. Again, if there was a new bug introduced that affects this issue, by all means it needs to be fixed as well. As I said before, I don't like repair costs but understand it is needed for the betterment of the game, so I haven't kept close count on what mine are, so can't really say how much of a difference I have noticed at this point.

Yes, but the repair costs are too high right now, especially for casual players. I see nothing wrong in lowering them.

Not for the couple of casual playing friends I have in RL. They also can't figure out what all the fuss is about.

BJ

There are effective gold sinks - that's why games use them (and employ bonafide economists as consultants). The repair costs were broken in that not all players were being charged the correct amount for the costs. The patch fixed that and now have brought the adaptive gear in line with what everyone else was paying. Whether a new bug was introduced or not because of this fix still remains to be determined.

 

BJ

A quote from another thread:

All our progression teams - in one of the largest guild on Dalborra - have effectively stopped. What's worse 6 out of 8 in my raid team have contemplated cancelling their subscription and moving on. To be honest, After more than a year of playing this was the first time I actually checked as well when my subscription is due and when it's convenient to cancel ...

Regardless of what anyone personally thinks of the cost, this is what will transpire. Many of us are holding on by our toenails, hoping for game improvements. I don't think many can stand another bit of aggravation or disappointment in this game. They are certainly not up for any further feelings of being taken advantage of.

Call it what you will. Explain it away however you wish....but the camel's back is breaking.

I'm a bit confused by the conclusion that people upset about the repair cost increase just want things handed to them.

Not one person has insisted that something be handed to them for nothing. Everyone still wants to experience the content, they want to earn their gear through learning the mechanics of the fights, winning those fights and getting the appropriate drops therein. What they don't want is 3+ hours of mindless grinding to be able to afford to do that.

The penalty for failure is the time you spent trying, and the fact that when you fail you have to start over. No one can magically progress from dying enough. There's no point in an op where the game decides you tried hard enough so the raid boss switches to easy mode.

We don't need exorbitant repair bills on top of that. Back in 1.2 they lowered repair costs for end game gear because it made end game progression prohibitive. That is still the case. It doesn't matter if you personally have millions of credits and don't care if you have to spend more on repairs.

It doesn't matter if you are in a guild that is run like a business that has millions of credits to pay for everyone's repair bills.

Just because the mechanic is not prohibitive for you specifically doesn't mean it's not prohibitive in general.

The one thing I will agree on is that we can no longer make any progress from debate on this subject. We need official word from Bioware as to whether or not this "fix" is working as intended, and if it is, what was their reasoning in implementing it, at which point we can start making a case for or against the change.

My guess is that since we have had no word at all it is probably not working as intended and they probably have no clue where the mistake is, and until they can find it don't want to say anything.

Granted my viewpoint is on the optimistic side, but really I can't fathom that this change was intentional given how divisive it has been.

A quote from another thread:

 

All our progression teams - in one of the largest guild on Dalborra - have effectively stopped. What's worse 6 out of 8 in my raid team have contemplated cancelling their subscription and moving on. To be honest, After more than a year of playing this was the first time I actually checked as well when my subscription is due and when it's convenient to cancel ...

 

Regardless of what anyone personally thinks of the cost, this is what will transpire. Many of us are holding on by our toenails, hoping for game improvements. I don't think many can stand another bit of aggravation or disappointment in this game. They are certainly not up for any further feelings of being taken advantage of.

 

Call it what you will. Explain it away however you wish....but the camel's back is breaking.

And many other guilds aren't stopping at all - including my casual progression guild. Anecdotal evidence is just that.

BJ

The problem is that because War hero gear was suddenly so easily obtainable that players have made lots of money from r/e of the mods and enhancements.

This leads to them having a load more money than before - In order to fix this BW/EA has thought "lets up a common cost to try and resolve this"...However not understanding that most people who play PVP (where this monetary increase has originated from) don't actually pay repair costs so you are only hitting PVE'rs who have got to now do things they dislike in game to recoup said repair cost.

Additionally due to the fact that prices in the cartel market are so high and box items are either so rare or no one is actually buying the boxes any more players are basically resorting to extorting people on the GTN. Effectively it comes down to buying credits. e.g 1800 coins for a speeder that sells for 2m $10 for 1m.

One of the other problems is that in other games (e.g. WoW) guilds have a taxation system that adds money to the guild bank - so players can afford repairs on the guild without being out of pocket via donations.

I would suggest to those making the decisions give the solution BEFORE you create the problem - add a taxation system (which would encourage players into guilds) and increase the monetary drop from PVE kills / reduce the amount that PVPers can make per day.

Whilst your doing that give us an improved crafting system so that every crafter can have a valid reason for picking that craft on their main based on choice (where as now only Biochem does).

I read something about it being a fix for Enhancement repair. my gear has 7 enhancements yet my costs have more than doubled. This can't just be enhancement repair.

I'm a bit confused by the conclusion that people upset about the repair cost increase just want things handed to them.

 

Not one person has insisted that something be handed to them for nothing. Everyone still wants to experience the content, they want to earn their gear through learning the mechanics of the fights, winning those fights and getting the appropriate drops therein. What they don't want is 3+ hours of mindless grinding to be able to afford to do that.

 

The penalty for failure is the time you spent trying, and the fact that when you fail you have to start over. No one can magically progress from dying enough. There's no point in an op where the game decides you tried hard enough so the raid boss switches to easy mode.

 

We don't need exorbitant repair bills on top of that. Back in 1.2 they lowered repair costs for end game gear because it made end game progression prohibitive. That is still the case. It doesn't matter if you personally have millions of credits and don't care if you have to spend more on repairs.

 

It doesn't matter if you are in a guild that is run like a business that has millions of credits to pay for everyone's repair bills.

 

Just because the mechanic is not prohibitive for you specifically doesn't mean it's not prohibitive in general.

 

The one thing I will agree on is that we can no longer make any progress from debate on this subject. We need official word from Bioware as to whether or not this "fix" is working as intended, and if it is, what was their reasoning in implementing it, at which point we can start making a case for or against the change.

 

My guess is that since we have had no word at all it is probably not working as intended and they probably have no clue where the mistake is, and until they can find it don't want to say anything.

 

Granted my viewpoint is on the optimistic side, but really I can't fathom that this change was intentional given how divisive it has been.

Completely agree.

But the problem is that a broken gold sink is not positive for the game. A game with a broken economy hurts all players and eventually the game goes away. The bad logic is assuming a broken gold sink is good for the game. It is not.

Ah, there we go, this is actually a decent argument.

Repair costs are a traditional gold sink in games, as are auction house/gtn fees. In both cases, the mechanic works...and this is important...as long as the amount taken through repairs and fees isn't exorbiant. If the price gets too high people will engage in fewer activities that lead to repair bills and will sell fewer items.

Where the "too high" bar is will vary from person to person. When meeting this cost becomes burdensome to a significant number of players, then you have a negative impact on the game. From my observations of the forums and chat in-game, this change is creating just that scenario.

Now, the good news is that repair costs are only one potential gold sink in a game economy. Putting very highly priced mounts or pets in the game is an effective way to get large amounts of credit out of the system.

In short, the positive effects of using repair costs as a gold sink are replicatable through other methods and the negative effects appear to be significant. Which is why I would like to see them cut repair costs across the board (for both moddable and unmoddable items) to what moddable items used to be.

Ah, there we go, this is actually a decent argument.

 

Repair costs are a traditional gold sink in games, as are auction house/gtn fees. In both cases, the mechanic works...and this is important...as long as the amount taken through repairs and fees isn't exorbiant. If the price gets too high people will engage in fewer activities that lead to repair bills and will sell fewer items.

 

Where the "too high" bar is will vary from person to person. When meeting this cost becomes burdensome to a significant number of players, then you have a negative impact on the game. From my observations of the forums and chat in-game, this change is creating just that scenario.

 

Now, the good news is that repair costs are only one potential gold sink in a game economy. Putting very highly priced mounts or pets in the game is an effective way to get large amounts of credit out of the system.

 

In short, the positive effects of using repair costs as a gold sink are replicatable through other methods and the negative effects appear to be significant. Which is why I would like to see them cut repair costs across the board (for both moddable and unmoddable items) to what moddable items used to be.

If this was an intentional change, and if the ultimate goal was to remove money from the game, they probably would be less willing to create vendor novelty items at this point because it would directly compete with the cartel market.

In order for repair costs to work as a money sink they need to be innocuous enough that community doesn't mind that they are there, yet high enough to actually compete with all the sources of income this game has.

Frankly, daily quests are the biggest contributing factor to inflation and credit bloat in the game, they could easily have left repair costs alone and decreased the the value/frequency of vendor trash from daily zones and reduced the daily rewards themselves.

Or they could do a little of both. Honestly, I believe this fix is not working as intended. As has been pointed out before, if you read the actual patch information regarding this change it only states that Enhancements weren't being factored into repair costs.

At most this should be a 50% increase to repairs (33% if the shell item also incurs it's own repair costs.) so people should probably being seeing a repair cost increase from ~3000 to ~5000 for the gear damage inflicted from a death at 50 in decent progression gear. That, to me, is not unreasonable.

If they are indeed looking to reduce the amount of money in the game then they should look to stem the inflow rather than try to increase the outflow.

As the leader of my guild

 

I say, run dailies, open a guild bank, deposit credits, help guild out.

 

But then again, I trust my guild

 

and a few thousand more credits isn't hurting my wallet.

 

 

Does no one realize this was a bug that has now been fixed?

what it looks like(the devs cant be bothered to confirm this) is that in fixing the bug they reverted repair costs across the board to pre 1.2.

then run dailies?

take an hour of of your time to do something instead of sit around on the fleet or on the forums complaining about something so small?

 

seriously, credits are NOT a problem in this game when you can make 400k EASILY in a day

 

HECK sell the crap loot from running those and you can have 600k

 

you people need to stop whining and play the game.

 

*EDIT*

and before people use the excuse, "I WORK" and "I GO TO SCHOOL"

 

So do I, now stop being lazy.

unless that person has no 50's and repair costs are eating them alive leveling....will you do dailies for them? stop being selfish and think about others

Honestly, I believe this fix is not working as intended.

I think there's a very good chance you're right. I wouldn't be at all surprised if what they were really trying to fix were cases where people would rip mods out of shells, sell the shell for full price, and then sell the mods (or re them). Maintenance is coming through tonight, have to see if they fix this.

As I understand it, the only change was that repair costs for oranges now properly reflect the enhancements, mods, armorings etc. in them. In other words, this affects new players not at all. Moreover, these aren't the days where people arrived at 50 broke and without speeder training 3 and their non-rotation skills untrained. Skill training is way cheaper than it used to be.

 

I get that this might discourage people from raiding, but it doesn't seem fair that social gear users should have to pay less than people wearing out of box end game gear. Also, the cost for anything black hole/campaign and lower will still be extremely trivial.

people in full dg/bh with no oranges seeing a 3x increase

Reason #1...

This is the easiest MMO ever made, with the most inconsequential penalties for dying since Duke Nukem. Putting in a penalty of any significance may lead some to believe that it is actually an MMO.