Odan wasn't the head of the Jedi Order, he was the Keeper of Antiquities.

 

Odan-Urr is the highest leader we've seen, and he was able to call a meeting of all the high rank members we've seen in the book.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Slowpokeking

 

But anyway am done with this thread, if were not gonna go by actual feats and just gonna go into speculation.

 

Following this way of thinking a random clone trooper has more actual feats than Exar Kun.And Vader is always going to have more ''actual feats'' than everyone else because is a more well known character with tons of material about him.

 

Just because there is a lot of stuff written about Vader,doesn't mean that much vs the likes of Exar Kun.You need to compare the characters ,not the number of things he did.

 

Or take this aproach:Image Vader in Kun's shoes and the other way around.Kun could have easily done everything Vader did and more.But Vader can't do the stuff Kun did,especially deemed worthy by Marka Ragnos himself, and the sith sorcery stuff.As i said Vader is just a warrior type with severe depression ,but a little more powerful because of the chosen one crap+ severely crippled forever by Mustafar.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Kaedusz

I think Exar would win easily

Following this way of thinking a random clone trooper has more actual feats than Exar Kun.And Vader is always going to have more ''actual feats'' than everyone else because is a more well known character with tons of material about him.

 

Just because there is a lot of stuff written about Vader,doesn't mean that much vs the likes of Exar Kun.You need to compare the characters ,not the number of things he did.

 

Or take this aproach:Image Vader in Kun's shoes and the other way around.Kun could have easily done everything Vader did and more.But Vader can't do the stuff Kun did,especially deemed worthy by Marka Ragnos himself, and the sith sorcery stuff.As i said Vader is just a warrior type with severe depression ,but a little more powerful because of the chosen one crap+ severely crippled forever by Mustafar.

 

Yes Kun has done stuff that Vader cannot do. But I am speaking in terms of combat here, combat feats and of course a random clone trooper would be killed by Kun. Being undefeated doesn't make someone unbeatable, especially when Kun only had 2 others to challenge him during his time...Vader meanwhile was challenged by a whole assortment of opponents even when they had no chance of actually wining, they still kept his skills sharp and focused.

 

You really are gonna say, that after 4,000 years of being a spirit and after only having 2 duels against others with any skill. That Kun isn't going to have his combat skills slip? Now am I saying that Kun wouldn't be able to fight against Vader? No...but he won't be fighting as great.

 

As I said though, Kun's Force Blasts give him an edge over Vader.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Vader is the second most powerful sithlord of all time under Emperor Palpatine according to G Canon.

 

I will admit that it seems by feats , power , and skills , Exar Kun is the most powerful Sithlord of the Old Republican and up too .

I would keep going on and on but I have never agreed with Wolfninjajedi post in a thread more , other than I still think Jaina would win this without a doubt .

Exar Kun was ahead of his time , he had a amulet to boost his power , and there was simply no Jedi willing to do what the Golden Age Jedi would have done .

 

But if we go by Canon than we all know the rule of the Golden Age .

 

Lets not forget that skills and powers simply put on paper have never matched up when it came to story .

 

In the end , I think Jaina Solo is being way over looked in this thread and its incredibly sad she is getting the Revan Treatment . Almost feels like she is a filler for whatever reason

Edited May 5, 2013 by mefit

Yes Kun has done stuff that Vader cannot do. But I am speaking in terms of combat here, combat feats and of course a random clone trooper would be killed by Kun. Being undefeated doesn't make someone unbeatable, especially when Kun only had 2 others to challenge him during his time...Vader meanwhile was challenged by a whole assortment of opponents even when they had no chance of actually wining, they still kept his skills sharp and focused.

 

You really are gonna say, that after 4,000 years of being a spirit and after only having 2 duels against others with any skill. That Kun isn't going to have his combat skills slip? Now am I saying that Kun wouldn't be able to fight against Vader? No...but he won't be fighting as great.

 

As I said though, Kun's Force Blasts give him an edge over Vader.

 

Which powerful Jedi/Sith did Vader beat? Starkiller? Yoda? Sidious? Luke after he completed the training?

You see, I always saw Exar Kun as the more refined and knowledgeable version of Starkiller, his duelling skills are better, his force abilities are of even greater magnitude, etc... simple put, if Starkiller can defeat Lord Vader twice, Exar Kun whom is basically the bigger better and badder version of Galen Marek, can defeat him as well.

 

Simply think about the similarities in fighting style and force prowess, you get the idea...

Which powerful Jedi/Sith did Vader beat? Starkiller? Yoda? Sidious? Luke after he completed the training?

 

Lets see....he fought against the Dark Woman(or An'ya Kuro), a cloned version of Maul, 8 Jedi at once killing 5 of them, Celesta Morne(who had the talisman of Murr and Murr acknowledged that Vader's power was great), and a number of others.

 

Now who did Kun beat? See I can ask that same question, he only beat Vodo, Odan(which wasn't really a fight), Aleema(which again not really a fight) and Ulic.

 

As per the fight Galen vs Vader, because I know that is going to be brought up or has already. You realize, that Galen won because he was trained into the ground by Vader and sparred with him right? Thus Galen wouldn't be taken by surprise of Vader's fighting style and the things he does, Kun doesn't have that advantage here, and even then Galen still had a rough time to even beat him.

 

Now then your probably gonna bring up Luke in ROTJ. But lets see something here...Luke is Anakin's son, meaning that he is a cut above the rest and in just a short time was able to match and fight evenly with him and Luke only even won against Vader because he tapped into the darkside. There is also the factor in, that neither Vader or Luke used any offensive Force Powers during their fight, it was all just a straight up saber duel.

 

But you know what? Believe what you will, however the feats say otherwise in Kun vs Vader. With that, I am done here and gonna get something to eat cause I am hungry, well that and I ain't knowledgeable enough on Jaina to make an argument.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Lets see....he fought against the Dark Woman(or An'ya Kuro), a cloned version of Maul, 8 Jedi at once killing 5 of them, Celesta Morne(who had the talisman of Murr and Murr acknowledged that Vader's power was great), and a number of others.

 

Dark Woman wasn't even a top Jedi in her era compare to Yoda and Windu, even Obi Wan. And he got beaten by Maul, only won by surprise. 8 Jedi? GG and Durge killed far many more.

 

Now who did Kun beat? See I can ask that same question, he only beat Vodo, Odan(which wasn't really a fight), Aleema(which again not really a fight) and Ulic.

 

Vodo, his master.

A giant Sith Worm

Odan, the head of the Jedi Order.

Aleema, the powerful Sith Sorcerer.

Ulic, a very talented and powerful Jedi.

 

The only powerful Jedi/Sith he didn't beat in his era is Nomi and I doubt she would be a match.

 

As per the fight Galen vs Vader, because I know that is going to be brought up or has already. You realize, that Galen won because he was trained into the ground by Vader and sparred with him right? Thus Galen wouldn't be taken by surprise of Vader's fighting style and the things he does, Kun doesn't have that advantage here, and even then Galen still had a rough time to even beat him.

 

And Vader would not be surprised with Galen's style, either, why did he lose?

 

Now then your probably gonna bring up Luke in ROTJ. But lets see something here...Luke is Anakin's son, meaning that he is a cut above the rest and in just a short time was able to match and fight evenly with him and Luke only even won against Vader because he tapped into the darkside. There is also the factor in, that neither Vader or Luke used any offensive Force Powers during their fight, it was all just a straight up saber duel.

 

Luke was still quite inexperienced at that time, and we saw Dooku used a simple trick to stop Anakin's similar rampage in EP III, but Vader did nothing but get beaten.

Dark Woman wasn't even a top Jedi in her era compare to Yoda and Windu, even Obi Wan. And he got beaten by Maul, only won by surprise. 8 Jedi? GG and Durge killed far many more.

 

 

 

Vodo, his master.

A giant Sith Worm

Odan, the head of the Jedi Order.

Aleema, the powerful Sith Sorcerer.

Ulic, a very talented and powerful Jedi.

 

The only powerful Jedi/Sith he didn't beat in his era is Nomi and I doubt she would be a match.

 

 

 

And Vader would not be surprised with Galen's style, either, why did he lose?

 

 

 

Luke was still quite inexperienced at that time, and we saw Dooku used a simple trick to stop Anakin's similar rampage in EP III, but Vader did nothing but get beaten.

 

1. That doesn't make the Dark Woman any less powerful, just because she wasn't on Yoda or Windu's level. That was just one instance, Vader killed more Jedi then just those 8 and he took 8 of them on at once. Yes he won against Maul by surprise, but you know before he had his saber cut in half, Vader and Maul were dueling pretty well against one another.

 

I already went through Odan and Aleema, those weren't even fights. I don't know why you keep saying Odan was head of the Jedi Order, he wasn't and even if he was he was a pathetically weak one then so that doesn't say much.

 

2. Because someone had to lose, of course it was going to be Vader. The fight was still hard on Galen anyway.

 

3. Inexperienced?...Perhaps fighting against a Sith yes even though he fought Vader before, but not in fighting. Again...Luke was a cut above everyone else, and won drawing on the strength of the darkside to overwhelm Vader much like Anakin did during his duel with Dooku in Ep 3.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

1. That doesn't make the Dark Woman any less powerful, just because she wasn't on Yoda or Windu's level. That was just one instance, Vader killed more Jedi then just those 8 and he took 8 of them on at once. Yes he won against Maul by surprise, but you know before he had his saber cut in half, Vader and Maul were dueling pretty well against one another.

 

Compare to head of the Jedi she surely is weaker. So Vader Never beat any top Jedi or Sith in his era, and got beaten by someone like Maul who was not on the top list since he provided no threat before Sidious.

 

I already went through Odan and Aleema, those weren't even fights. I don't know why you keep saying Odan was head of the Jedi Order, he wasn't.

 

Those are, just not lightsaber fight but pure Force power.

 

He is the head of the Jedi since we saw him arrange the meeting between all the known Jedi masters and decide the tactics against Krath.

 

2. Because someone had to lose, of course it was going to be Vader. The fight was still hard on Galen anyway.

 

So it's still a loss, Kun was taught by his master but he still beat him once before he used the double blade lightsaber.

 

3. Inexperienced?...Perhaps fighting against a Sith yes, but not in fighting. Again...Luke was a cut above everyone else, and won drawing on the strength of the darkside to overwhelm Vader much like Anakin did during his duel with Dooku.

 

Compare to EP III Anakin he was inexperienced, and Dooku was able to stop Anakin's rampage, he lost because Palpatine helped Anakin to manage his hate and anger.

Edit: You know what forget it, were just gonna keep going around in circles at this point. So I really am done with this now, have fun with speculation. But I am telling you right now, Kun's skill in saber combat had to have dropped for the past 4,000 years he was a spirit. Edited May 5, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

1. Of course compared to Yoda/Mace, the Dark Woman would be weaker. She is still powerful though, able to teleport/phase through objects and she actually disarmed Vader during their duel. Also Maul was a considerable threat, he was trained as a living weapon by Sidious.

 

And Kun beat top level Jedi/Sith in his era.

 

2. Odan and Aleema didn't even try doing much of anything, and just because he is able to call a meeting that suddenly makes him leader of the entire Jedi Order?...

 

They tried, Aleema's Force Blast didn't make effect on Kun, and Odan did attack Kun with his Force push.

 

Yes, and we don't see anyone above him.

 

3. Yes because Vodo didn't have a defense against the double bladed saber, as it was still fairly new in that timeframe. Kun won't have this advantage of surprise, because Vader had already fought against that kind of saber.

 

No, Kun already beat his master with 2 lightsabers before he turned into a Sith.

 

4. Dooku was able to stop Anakin's rampage? What? But this point is rather moot, as Luke was able to go toe to toe with Vader who was far above his former self in skill anyway.

 

In the novel yes.

 

No, Vader has far more experience than his son, he also spent much more time to improve his lightsaber skills, and he clearly has much more Force Technique.

And Kun beat top level Jedi/Sith in his era.

 

 

 

They tried, Aleema's Force Blast didn't make effect on Kun, and Odan did attack Kun with his Force push.

 

Yes, and we don't see anyone above him.

 

 

 

No, Kun already beat his master with 2 lightsabers before he turned into a Sith.

 

 

 

In the novel yes.

 

No, Vader has far more experience than his son, he also spent much more time to improve his lightsaber skills, and he clearly has much more Force Technique.

 

I'm done Slow...but i'll respond..

 

1. No he didn't, his only fights were against Vodo/Ulic who had any degree of skill.

 

2. Aleema wasn't even trained that well in it, of course Kun would overpower her with ease, Kun even states she is weak. Also ya...a simple Force Push....when I mean try, I mean actually TRY.

 

3. Yes Kun did, however that was training and Kun took another saber from someone, he doesn't carry two on him.

 

4. Yet...Luke was still able to match Vader...

 

The fight this time was far more balanced. Vader discovered that Luke was his match, and, once again, the Sith Lord found his thoughts straying to an alliance between them against the Emperor.

Luke had indeed grown powerful since Bespin, and he was an equal match for his father.

 

Taken from The Official Star Wars Fact File #111

 

For the first time, the thought entered Vader’s consciousness that his son might best him. He was astounded by the strength Luke had acquired since their last duel, in the Cloud City—not to mention the boy’s timing, which was honed to a thought’s-breadth.

 

--Taken from Return of the Jedi

 

I'm done, because apparently were just gonna go round and round getting nowhere with this, making it all pointless.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Edit: You know what forget it, were just gonna keep going around in circles at this point. So I really am done with this now, have fun with speculation. But I am telling you right now, Kun's skill in saber combat had to have dropped for the past 4,000 years he was a spirit.

I shouldn't really be getting in to this debate but I'm confused as to why its happening.

 

Surely Exar Kun as a Sith spirit cannot actually wield a lightsaber? Because, well, he's a spirit? I'm not even sure what this has to do with the debate given that this is corporeal Exar Kun were talking about here.

 

Probably best to leave such debates for organised duels, threads like this usually break down into the above.

I shouldn't really be getting in to this debate but I'm confused as to why its happening.

 

Surely Exar Kun as a Sith spirit cannot actually wield a lightsaber? Because, well, he's a spirit? I'm not even sure what this has to do with the debate given that this is corporeal Exar Kun were talking about here.

 

Probably best to leave such debates for organised duels, threads like this usually break down into the above.

 

He can't, and were going with the fact that Kun had rebuilt his body and put himself into the new one. But I am done with this, I won't be responding anymore so...have fun with whatever speculation brings in.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

He can't, and were going with the fact that Kun had rebuilt his body and put himself into the new one. But I am done with this, I won't be responding anymore so...have fun with whatever speculation brings in.

But... wait, that's ridiculous.

But... wait, that's ridiculous.

 

How? if we don't do that, Kun either stays a spirit or loses all of the built up power.

 

Could we also stop these ludicrous comparisons, both Vader and Kun are exceptional duellists, the best masters on record of their chosen form, debate over.

 

Let's move on....

 

Jaina anybody? anybody?

Edited May 5, 2013 by LadyKulvax

How? if we don't do that, Kun either stays a spirit or loses all of the built up power.

Ah I see. Nonetheless I think we are taking 'at the height of one's power' to the extreme here. While yes level the playing field and all but making that move puts us deeply into the realm of speculation as really we have little idea of how 4,000 years of hibernation affects him (whether it made him more powerful/less powerful etc. and to what extent) And how placing his spirit in a new body would affect him. (Would he be corrupted? How would it affect his psyche?) The debate simply can't be had, your essentially fabricating a entirely new character.

 

Given the length of this discussion on how skilled Kun would be with a lightsaber, you can see that it leads to unnecessary debate and over-complication of the situation.

 

Nonetheless if we're concerning pre-death Kun I'm not sure who'd win. Jaina aside (as I know little about her) Kun and Vader seemed equally matched in many respects. Perhaps if this duel makes an appearance in the BattleZone I might give it more consideration.

Ah I see. Nonetheless I think we are taking 'at the height of one's power' to the extreme here. While yes level the playing field and all but making that move puts us deeply into the realm of speculation as really we have little idea of how 4,000 years of hibernation affects him (whether it made him more powerful/less powerful etc. and to what extent) And how placing his spirit in a new body would affect him. (Would he be corrupted? How would it affect his psyche?) The debate simply can't be had, your essentially fabricating a entirely new character.

 

Given the length of this discussion on how skilled Kun would be with a lightsaber, you can see that it leads to unnecessary debate and over-complication of the situation.

 

Nonetheless if we're concerning pre-death Kun I'm not sure who'd win. Jaina aside (as I know little about her) Kun and Vader seemed equally matched in many respects. Perhaps if this duel makes an appearance in the BattleZone I might give it more consideration.

 

Except there is little to discuss, we know as a fact he only got more powerful in his long hibernation, hence why he could burn Gantoris from the inside out with his gaze, knock somebody of the calibre of Luke out cold into a coma that nobody could raise him from and even force Kyle Katarn and Mara Jade to evacuate because they could do quite literally nothing to combat back against him.

 

We also know that he only stated rebuild his own body, as in reconstruct the one he inhabited originally.

 

The reason I think that Kun would beat Vader one on one is his unpredictable, his mastery of arguably the best form there is, his absolutely unique fighting style, combined with abilities like Force Blast and Force Flight.

 

But that is why this isn't a 1 vs 1, Jaina is also involved here, she also has her own tricks up her sleeve.

Edited May 5, 2013 by LadyKulvax

Except there is little to discuss, we know as a fact he only got more powerful in his long hibernation, hence why he could burn Gantoris from the inside out with his gaze, knock somebody of the calibre of Luke out cold into a coma that nobody could raise him from and even force Kyle Katarn and Mara Jade to evacuate because they could do quite literally nothing to combat back against him.

 

We also know that he only stated rebuild his own body, as in reconstruct the one he inhabited originally.

 

The reason I think that Kun would beat Vader one on one is his unpredictable, his mastery of arguably the best form there is, his absolutely unique fighting style, combined with abilities like Force Blast and Force Flight.

 

But that is why this isn't a 1 vs 1, Jaina is also involved here, she also has her own tricks up her sleeve.

 

Except that was in his spirit form he was able to do such, we have no idea what he would be able to do in a new body. Being unpredictable doesn't mean he wins, it helps him sure, but Vader too has his own unique fighting style that encompasses all forms not just 1. You also need to take into account that, Kun didn't have anyone to challenge him for 4,000 years....his skills had to have dropped in fighting ability.

 

I do not care how well trained someone is, if they aren't challenged from time to time their skill is going to drop...especially for that long.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Except that was in his spirit form he was able to do such, we have no idea what he would be able to do in a new body. Being unpredictable doesn't mean he wins, it helps him sure, but Vader too has his own unique fighting style that encompasses all forms not just 1. You also need to take into account that, Kun didn't have anyone to challenge him for 4,000 years....his skills had to have dropped in fighting ability.

 

I do not care how well trained someone is, if they aren't challenged from time to time their skill is going to drop...especially if Kun couldn't train for 4,000 years.

 

You know what, fine, we'll handi-cap him, this is pre-ritual Kun.

Ok see now we are getting somewhere, now it'll be more difficult for Vader however I still see him pulling a win due to him utilizing powers IE: Alter Environment, Force Barrier/Absorb/Deflection at his disposal which Kun hasn't faced off against before, also his saber style. But now I see it as more a 50/50 shot, it all depends really on what goes down and what happens between the two, the Force Blasts are what Vader really has to keep watch over as that can be used at a distance or close up. It'll probably take more then a few blasts however, cause Vader's durability and will to live on is just *********** ridiculous. Edited May 5, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

I think Jaina Solo is being forgotten here. I don't have time write now, but I'll post a (fairly) long post on some of the topics I've seen come up in this thread.

I think Jaina Solo is being forgotten here. I don't have time write now, but I'll post a (fairly) long post on some of the topics I've seen come up in this thread.

 

She is, but only cause I don't have any knowledge on her so I wasn't wanting to guess.