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Council NiM Question

ZentheSecond's Avatar

05.10.2015 , 09:17 PM | #1
Recently been getting back into tanking the Council on NiM on my Sin.

Which brings about a question.
Can someone explain to me the kite strat/method? Or have a really good example of it?

I see to have almost 50/50 luck on it, but I'm sure its possible as a tank in my guild has done it this way. Sadly I have not had a chance to ask that tank, and they don't play as much anymore. I will be sending them a message but I was looking to get advice from tanks at large (especially Sins).
My method of doing it has been so far;
Sit on the edge of the bridge, and get knocked all the back across the Holocron in the middle, I run back towards the edge (not where I was knocked from) a few steps after she jumps to me, then I proceed to run/force speed back towards the bridge taking a little right or left curve to it.

If all goes well, I lose the stacks as I'm approaching the second set of crystals as I'm walking down the bridge. I proceed to turn around and do it again.

However I've had like... bad luck sometimes and just as I'm about to get to the bridge, BAM. Stack.

Anyone able to offer advice?
-- Hanakoo - Powertech - DPS/Tank --
-- Natsumii - Assassin - Tank --
-- Kaijėn - Sniper - DPS --

Kawabonga's Avatar

05.11.2015 , 08:12 AM | #2
Your landing zones are Bestia's alcove and the entrance, more or less. You'll have to adjust your angle depending on where Tyrans is sitting.

There are 2 possible scenarios:

1. Bestia will apply a stack and push immediately after that.
2. Bestia pushes you when your stacks are about halfway from falling off, Jump to you and apply the next stack.

If i remember correctly, there is a perfect alternation between the two, but don't take my word for it... i haven't done it in a long while.

When 1 happens, run away from her until she jumps to you, then turn around and make your way back to where you were before. Force speed might be necessary
When 2 happens, run away from her in as straight a line as possible until the stacks fall off. No force speed here.

If you miscalculate, lose track or are unsure of what is going to happen next, or get a third stack, stand on the holocron (your phase walk should be here), facing the entrance, let the push come, let her jump and then phase walk and run away. This is enough time for a fresh stack to fall off so you can start again.

Note: you should not be taking Obfuscation (+15% movement speed) for this fight. That extra speed is enough to get you out of the boss' melee range while kiting (so she will jump), but not enough to get you out of it for her next GCD, which will be applying a stack. (Force speed is fine for this though)

KeyboardNinja's Avatar

05.11.2015 , 11:07 AM | #3
There are actually two distinct methods for kiting Bestia. The method which uses the whole arena (two landing zones) is more reliable and has significantly more margin for error, but it is slightly disruptive to the Calphayus kite pattern, runs higher risk of buffing Tyrans (mostly irrelevant now), and forces your healers to move around quite a bit more. I've always used the single landing zone kite, so I'll describe that, but that doesn't make it necessarily the best strat for you or your group.

So, the most important thing to know about kiting Bestia is that the stack application is not synced with the punt. Your goal is to range the stack application starting at almost the exact moment where she wants to refresh your stacks, continuing until your stacks fall off (this takes about 4-5 seconds). The stack reapplication is just past the halfway point on the debuff, so base your timing on that. She applies at most two stacks per punt, which gives you the timing triggers: if you get punted and you already have two or three stacks, you need to drop those stacks before the next punt or you will die.

When you open the fight, do it from the very end of Bestia's alcove. This forces her to walk back to you and delays her first stack application, meaning you have the debuff on a slightly adjusted timer and you avoid dropping it by accident after the very first punt (this is important, because the Soa mechanic gets triggered right after the first punt). Keep her in her alcove and aim toward the holocron. After your first punt, kite her around the holocron a bit to get her in line to punt you exactly onto the bridge. Aim for the exact midpoint of the door.

In lining up with the bridge, I find it helpful to position myself behind the holocron (i.e. on the opposite side from the bridge), get things lined up to the best of my ability, and then just…walk toward the bridge a few steps. This "pulls" Bestia into a more corrected angle, and basically guarantees that you hit the exact center of the bridge every single time.

Optimally, you will be holding Bestia such that she is inside the holocron. This is slightly different positioning from pre-3.0, and hilariously this difference comes from the extra 0.5 seconds on Force Speed that we have now (believe it or not, this talent causes a lot of problems for the kite, but you need the talent, so…meh). When Bestia punts you, you will land a little past the midpoint of the bridge. As you are in the air, look at your stacks. If your stacks just got refreshed, then you will need to wait on the bridge for a little bit (and by "just" I mean "the instant before the punt"). Take a step forward as Bestia jumps to you, so that she lands behind you (closer to the door). Hang out for a second, watching your debuff bar like a hawk. Take this moment to identify where Tyrans is, so that you can avoid running into him with your evil cargo in tow.

The instant that the debuff hits halfway, sprint toward the middle of the room and keep running until the debuff disappears. Due to the extra 0.5 seconds, you're going to end up basically on the far side of the platform (nearly back to Bestia's or Raptus's alcove) by the time this happens. This is why you need to get punted past the midpoint of the bridge, because otherwise you will run out of space! As soon as the debuff disappears, reverse course and walk back towards the bridge. Bestia will dutifully follow (unless you have lost agro) and line up perfectly for the next punt. Again, put her in the holocron.

Remember to linger on the bridge until your stacks are at the halfway point. If your stacks are already past the halfway point by the time you hit the bridge, just wait for her to start her leap and hit Force Speed. She'll land well behind you and you will range her stacks long before the holocron. As soon as your stacks drop, allow her to catch you! This is one of the major mistakes that tanks make while kiting Bestia: the stacks are your friend! They prevent you from being Soa'd or yanked by Tyrans, which is huge. As soon as she catches you and reapplies the stacks, you can kite her back to the holocron and realign with the bridge.

If you do it right, this strategy can absorb a mistake on a punt in the form of failing to range the stacks at the right moment, it just cannot absorb two consecutive mistakes. In other words, you can screw it up once, but you need to get it right on the very next punt (not that on the first punt, from her alcove, you're intentionally retaining your stacks, so you must drop them on the first punt to the bridge). So you have some margin for error. If you mistime the run off the bridge, or you positioned incorrectly and overshot your force speed, just keep running as far as you can. You can stay ahead of her quite easily if you make a slight arc into the alcove, and this buys you extra space. You can also use these slight arcs to avoid Tyrans when he teleports to near the bridge. Just don't make the arc too sharp, otherwise she will catch up to you and refresh the stacks.

If all else fails, your "Hail Mary" strat is to range the punt in a similar way, delaying it so that you can "emergency drop" your stacks in flight. This can happen if you had two stacks on the bridge, waited for the halfway point and then ran to mid and somehow got stack-reapplied on the way. This can happen if you screw up the movement or you have a bit of lag. It sucks a lot, because now you have three fresh stacks and one more on the way. What you need to do at this point is give yourself as much space as possible (walk to the end of the arena, between Raptus and Bestia's alcoves), turn around toward the bridge and start walking. Do NOT use Force Speed! (not that you could, since it's on CD) Keep walking toward the bridge. Your DPS will hate you, but Bestia will be unable to apply that fourth stack. Keep walking. Once your stacks are about to expire, you can stop walking. You should be very close to the door at this point. Bestia now has two attacks on the table: punt and stacks. Stacks will kill you, but the good news is that the punt takes priority. She will punt you into the door. You'll bounce off and land back on the bridge. She's going to hit you pretty hard at this point, so have a cooldown up before she punts you, but your stacks will fall as you rebound off the door. Sprint back to the holocron and pick up where you left off.

Incidentally, it's not a bad idea to taunt fluff aggressively while doing this. I single-taunt every time I get situated in the middle, and I AoE taunt on the bridge whenever it's up.

Here's a video of me kiting during a pre-nerf progression pull: You can see several mistakes in here, most notably that I didn't understand the importance of allowing Bestia to "catch up" when my stacks drop off early, and so I get yanked by Tyrans (twice, I think?). You'll also notice our very exciting not-yet-refined-or-really-working-at-all reaches strat in action. Hopefully it will help you get an idea of how the kite works though.

Again, this is not the only option for kiting Bestia, it's just the one that I found best for me and for our group. On a final note, I do not recommend the 15% movement speed increase unless you want to do the kite without using Force Speed. You'll simply run out of room if you use both. You can do the kite without Force Speed even without the 15% boost, so this is a legitimate option if you find it easier (just start walking as soon as Bestia starts her jump to you on the bridge and you'll be well ahead of her the whole time). I definitely don't take that talent when I tank it now though.
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ZentheSecond's Avatar

05.11.2015 , 09:42 PM | #4
So having both the Force Speed duration buff and the 15% speed buff is a bad idea?

My last attempt had both of them, and while my camera was not facing behind me as I was making my way back to the bridge. I had this odd feeling that she might be double leaping on those rare moments that I would get a 3rd stack on my way back, like right as I approached the bridge. I had a habit of just trying to run away when I had a decent length of time on the stacks, but if I landed and I saw the stacks floating around the 5 second mark I Force Sped back to just straight distance myself from her.

Which would you suggest for the fresh pulling guy to try first? the 15% movement buff? Or Force Speed Duration?
-- Hanakoo - Powertech - DPS/Tank --
-- Natsumii - Assassin - Tank --
-- Kaijėn - Sniper - DPS --