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The Fallen Empire storyline is dumb.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
The Fallen Empire storyline is dumb.

FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
06.17.2016 , 01:54 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by josephxp View Post
The Expanded universe is ever expanding further back in time...

And your lack of intelligence is deeply disturbing...

And you were out for 5 years as an ice block. The Jedi order isn't destroyed it was crippled same as the sith. Advanced technology will always prove and issue throughout the Star Wars universe like the Yuuzhan Vong's bioweapons making a crippling war.

Valkoryion even says to you that his eyes were opened and now has had a realization after Ziost so instead of being his Homicidal world devouring Vitiate self hes changed (or at least he says) and appreciate the stars, had a love interest. Which he says in chapter 2 were you not listening?

The Knights have different training like many other force sensitive groups and cults so that's why they are different.

The story is quite interesting and its not even half over yet we have season 2 coming up with 10+ more chapters which will rap up the expansion pack. If you have read the books as you have said before, you know that time and time again the jedi and sith wax and wane loosing great numbers and returning back to the galactic conflict. History repeats itself so its logical that it would do the same in the Star Wars Universe. You can't judge the entire expansion pack when its not even half over there a lot more content coming out and your judging it as its half complete? It's different from other expansion packs because its not fully released yet and their is more content that we will get, as it continues more choices and consequences from your earlier decisions you didn't realize would affect the outcome.

The conquest is played as casual because you were not their you were frozen, more codex entries come out explaining what has happened and more will continue to come out. Part of the story is finding out what has happened in the 5 years you were a wall decoration. Like where your companions went, if your love interest still loves you or married someone else, did they die from a decision you made early on. There are so many variables at play and more keep coming, soon their will be a ton of companions deaths/leaving because of your decisions.

I've said this before, if you absolutely hate the expansion pack then don't play the game, the expansions stories are done and now their implementing the graphics and combat so nothings going to change. Suck it up or leave or wait for the entire story to come out as finished before you rip it to shreds, who knows in 3 months from now after chapter 16 and the bonus chapter season 2 chapter 0 (HK-55 Bonus chapter) your opinion may greatly change and you may enjoy the expansion pack.
^This is pretty much what i was trying to say
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

josephxp's Avatar


josephxp
06.17.2016 , 01:59 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by FlameYOL View Post
^This is pretty much what i was trying to say
You just really need to wait for the whole thing to unravel, many games have that HUGE shocking surprise at the end, like in KOTOR who knew they were going to be Revan? At the time it was a mind F*** and those OMG moments. Who knows maybe we find out that Valkyrion is our father? (It would not be original but its the first thing that came to mind).

Many games have the first half of their story as template decisions to how drastic your story will be from 1 character to another. Bioshock infinate for one kill a few of the kids and you have an arsenal of nukes at your disposal, save them all and you live happily ever after (least i think it was bioshock infinate ive been grinding games on steam lately).

So anyone who wants to complain about the expansion so far, sit down, think about how we are getting 10+ more chapters after ch 16, then complain once its over.
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Thoughts_My_Aim's Avatar


Thoughts_My_Aim
06.18.2016 , 02:36 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by josephxp View Post
You just really need to wait for the whole thing to unravel, many games have that HUGE shocking surprise at the end, like in KOTOR who knew they were going to be Revan? At the time it was a mind F*** and those OMG moments. Who knows maybe we find out that Valkyrion is our father? (It would not be original but its the first thing that came to mind).
I think the major difference here is that in the original KotOR, the plot would still have made sense even if you *didn't* turn out to be Revan. It explained some little minor things that you could easily write off as genre conventions anyway, but it isn't like the plot felt like a pile of unadulterated nonsense before the big twist, because "you're trying to stop the big bad Sith Lord" is perfectly sensible as plots go.

That's very different from a plot that fundamentally doesn't make sense, where you're relying on information coming out later that *makes* it make sense retroactively. Darth Vader turning out to be Luke's father added depth and nuance to a story that already worked. Valkyrion/Vitiate turning out to be the PC's father would explain one thing (why he's so obsessed with the PC) but raise a whole lot more questions (why are his other children so much more powerful than you, why didn't all this come out years ago, and so on) and still not explain a bunch of others (what's the deal with the emergency backup empire, for example?)

Now as it happens, I don't mind that the plot is a little silly, I kind of expect that from Star Wars plots. And I certainly don't mind that there's a Force Using order that's not Jedi or Sith, but then I'm old enough to remember a time when Vader was just a "Dark Jedi" and "Darth" was just his first name.

Teriaon's Avatar


Teriaon
06.18.2016 , 02:58 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by josephxp View Post
You just really need to wait for the whole thing to unravel, many games have that HUGE shocking surprise at the end, like in KOTOR who knew they were going to be Revan? At the time it was a mind F*** and those OMG moments. Who knows maybe we find out that Valkyrion is our father? (It would not be original but its the first thing that came to mind).

Many games have the first half of their story as template decisions to how drastic your story will be from 1 character to another. Bioshock infinate for one kill a few of the kids and you have an arsenal of nukes at your disposal, save them all and you live happily ever after (least i think it was bioshock infinate ive been grinding games on steam lately).

So anyone who wants to complain about the expansion so far, sit down, think about how we are getting 10+ more chapters after ch 16, then complain once its over.
First of all, as said above the story of Kotor would still have worked and been interesting if you were not Reven, secondly I know people say that the fact that the player character is Reven was a huge suprise, but really, the game is chalk full of clues, it really isent that hard to figure out. Wich works well, because when the news drop you have all those clues you can look back on and think, yes that actually dose make sense, this is the difference between a well set up twist, and a out of nowhere turn that is only in there for the 'its a twist' moment.

YoshiRaphElan's Avatar


YoshiRaphElan
06.18.2016 , 05:25 PM | #55
And how does Valkorion being the father of a Twi'lek/Cathar/Chiss/etc. make sense anyway?

josephxp's Avatar


josephxp
06.18.2016 , 05:37 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by YoshiRaphElan View Post
And how does Valkorion being the father of a Twi'lek/Cathar/Chiss/etc. make sense anyway?
Him being the father was just a random suggestion of a plot twist, as a random example of a plot twist that could happen. and you would have noticed it if you read where the quote was from in the context.

Being:
Quote: Originally Posted by josephxp View Post
You just really need to wait for the whole thing to unravel, many games have that HUGE shocking surprise at the end, like in KOTOR who knew they were going to be Revan? At the time it was a mind F*** and those OMG moments. Who knows maybe we find out that Valkyrion is our father? (It would not be original but its the first thing that came to mind).
Where i said it would not be original, and by that i meant unlikely and improbable because its been done before.

Frankly i feel a more probable twist would be Valkorion trying to shape your body so he can steal it later on for himself, you killing his daughter and son so he could regain something apart of him and revive himself and then try to kill you. Or from the Ziost instance he is drifting away from the dark side of the force and is moving towards the light which means he was telling the truth in chapter 2. (Him telling the truth in itself can be a plot twist from what we know of him already. Or he could have crafted you in your mothers womb for greatness (kind of a chosen one with Anikin). Or simply he is just an old fart looking for someone to finally kill him because hes gone insane just as the dread masters did when they begged to die on Oricon. Or maybe just maybe, you finally kill him ascend the throne and rule the galaxy with an iron fist until you die (or the next expansion pack which strips you of your powers because of some disaster with superweapons that backfires on you so now you are an emperor of nothing because Zakuul and the fleet got sucked into a black hole or something). So many possibilities so many ways the story can go and possible 2+ final endings, but the journey is what really matters. Like if everyone of your companions die or not, or half.
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MysteryJoker's Avatar


MysteryJoker
06.18.2016 , 07:10 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by josephxp View Post
You just really need to wait for the whole thing to unravel, many games have that HUGE shocking surprise at the end, like in KOTOR who knew they were going to be Revan? At the time it was a mind F*** and those OMG moments. Who knows maybe we find out that Valkyrion is our father? (It would not be original but its the first thing that came to mind).
No, I'm pretty sure they're setting you up to be the Emperor of all the free galaxy. "Hey! Let's give you the Eternal Fleet! The single most destructive force in the galaxy!" It's a classic case of building the player up to be the All Mighty. And honestly... It is boring to be put on a pedestal. I think the story is decent, but in no way is it fantastic.

Costello's Avatar


Costello
06.19.2016 , 12:13 PM | #58
There are so many problems with the story line its hard to really see what the writing team were thinking, why they made the choices they made and why they thought that choice would impact the story in a more meaningful way. Two examples of this.

Jumping the galaxy on five years. You have taken an established galaxy with multiple worlds and by jumping it on created a time paradox where players jump backwards and forwards in time. Sometimes onto worlds where imperials and republic are still fighting and you pick up heroics set in this war to get supplies for a war 5 years in the future or recruit people on these plants in the middle skirmishes happening 5 years ago. But that is a lack of the ability to phase planets and resources but from a purely story point of view.

It makes the events of the war too historic. If the war had only just finished it would have been raw, you would be seeing the effects of the war, soldiers would be limping home after defeat, refugees would have been seeking new homes. Jorgan's account could have been vastly different from talking politics to talking about how Havok had held to the end but reinforcements never came and they were overwhelmed. The story would have held far more emotion, with the aftermath of the war much being more visual. Instead what we actually have is a galaxy at peace, in a way the eternal empire is good for the galaxy, far better than the imperial republic war for the average citizen,

There is too much time to cover and this is leading to very bland explanations by companions of where they have been for the last 5 years. What have you been up to in the last 5 years, Oh I did some odd jobs and then feel in with Gault. Thats it for 5 years? You didn't look for me? In 5 years? Some odd jobs and feel in with someone for 5 years while I was frozen... and some republic droid and Lana are the ones to find me and break me out... If it had been kept close to the war, the explanation can be much simpler they were fighting, running, hiding and with the war only just over were about to start looking. Yes its going to be a lot of I was busy fighting the war or whatever, and a lot of I always hoped you would appear at the next staging post or whatever. But been doing some odd jobs for the last 3 years and just assumed you were dead, my bad.

It gives a too uniformed approach to the universe. 5 Years with the fleet and army the galaxy is conquered. Anyone who would not kneel would have been wiped out in that time or run so far and gone so deep into hiding that they wouldn't be an entity. In many ways the Mandolorians still being around is amazing, one would think they would have died fighting. However a shorter time span could have lead to some outer rim worlds still holding out. This could of allowed for chapters being devoted to aiding these worlds. Yes once again it would have been darker and more desperate story with residence fighters knowing they can't win but fighting anyway cause they would rather fight than kneel. But after 5 years if there was any world holding out it would have been turned to glass or be surrounded by star fortresses.

Next up is the use of the Sith Emperor as Valkorian

First up the guy was dead, everyone was happy with this at the end of Makeb, yet two years later its felt necessary to bring him and Revan back. He comes back as a giant gas cloud and everyone is convinced he wants to wipe out all life which he then does on Ziost and then it turns out he his a family man who had an invincible fleet and knights of Zakuul at his disposal.

So we go from wanting to devour all life to being a family man.... No explanation of this will be sufficient and I doubt the writing team will ever provide one. It may be up there with the NGE of monumental bad decisions. With University classes using it as an example of how not to write characters unless you want to lose your audience when they all go but that makes no sense, this is garbage.

It fails to make any sense on so many levels, he had an invincible fleet and his goal was to wipe out all life. He could have used it to wipe out every planet. If he had to force cloud each planet to absorb the power he could have used it to wipe out the fleets, the defenses the armies that stood against him as his idiot son did. The fleet clearly worked in this way cause his idiot son managed it and he is as was proven a lazy wreck.

Ok maybe everyone was mistaken and he didn't want to wipe out all life in the galaxy just conquer it with the Sith Empire. Evidence suggests that he did want to conquer the galaxy hence why the Sith empire invaded. I have discounted at this point that he needed the death brought on by war to devour the galaxy, as he could have used the eternal fleet to genocide the entire galaxy what Vaylin did to 5 planets week after week till he had the power to destroy the rest. The why didn't use the eternal fleet, once his idiot son managed it and his an idiot.

Next he is seen as a good among the sith so why does he create a second empire where he is also seen as a god and not merge them. Infact in Zakuul his seen as a benevolent god. Bloody hell thats a U turn, a being so evil it brought death to the galaxy, kills his own people by the million, corrupted Revan, the list of war crimes is fairly vast and is described in the writing as a monster to Koth... whose reply was his always been good to Zakuul. What the hell for? The people are worthless scum, other than the Knights and the military they all appear to be lazy and useless. He had an Imperial Military and a Sith Order, what was it about Zakuul that made him love them and provide for them and shower them with gifts and kindness. You know the most evil creature in the galaxy that devoured all life on Ziost his own factions world...

I can't see any reason he needed to be reborn, why he needed to devour all life on Ziost only to flee and how they can ever explain the massive character and plot holes he creates without saying they are two different people. That or we will all wake up and say I had the strangest dream Revan was reborn and brought back a giant gas cloud....

Pretty much anything would have been better than bringing back the Sith Emperor, Valkorian could have been his own man and the story one about a war against Zakuul without having a force ghost inside you.

josephxp's Avatar


josephxp
06.19.2016 , 12:31 PM | #59
Well i won't make a direct quote quoting all of what you just said because that would be death by text.

The time paradox you were talking about, ya unavoidable because u still have the older story content and people going through but the newer content like seeing the star fotress in the sky on a world is not shown and companions your recruiting aren't shown before KotFE, so its unavoidable and is a detail we can all glace over because people will still want to run the old heroics and all.

Some explanations for what happened in the past 5 years are found in the codex entries, companion stories, the Star Fortress jedi companion gives you a quick blurb of what happened to Scourge/Doc/Kira which ever you pic but says he doesn't know where they are. Also in the companion and contacts window the companion blurb can give insight into what has happened. And the entire world being destroyed is a bit far out if the resistance fighters are small group and not an entire planet. Plus Zakuul is taking raw materials for some unapparent reason which could be why they don't atk alderaan with more fortresses. That or Arcan is just a big moron.

For your Vitiate/Valkorion point:

When a man has so much power like that and can transfer himself into bodies and has lived over a thousand years hes not going to die very easilly. If you look at the EU before de canonization, they had to kill Palpatine a few more times until he stayed dead. That guy had clone bodies of himself on Kamino and when he died he would use the force and tansfer himself into a new body until he finally stayed dead because he exhumed to much power. With Valkorion he had another body he could transfer too so this makes sense, though with revan's attempt Valkorion saw a possibility to grow more powerful and to distract the rest of the Republic and Empire from his real goals on Zakuul. Also as its been pointed out in the story as lana said maybe if he uses the fleet he won't gain the power, like on Ziost when the possed die he gains more power but if people aren't possesed people they give him less strength. So that could tie into that part where he needs more power and the fleet could diminish it. The second empire could be a safe haven made if and when his body got destroyed or as a backup plan in case his empire backfires and say either a jedi cuts you down or the sith join forces strike him down etc.

Overall as i have said before there will be many plot holes until the story ends because as we get more chapters more information is given to us as it continues which all of the holes will make sense later on. Like is Valkorion using you for his own goals or not, and what those goals may or may not be.

*EDIT* Remember we still have 10+ more chapters in season 2 so thats even more content.
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Eanelinea's Avatar


Eanelinea
06.25.2016 , 07:00 AM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by MysteryJoker View Post
No, I'm pretty sure they're setting you up to be the Emperor of all the free galaxy. "Hey! Let's give you the Eternal Fleet! The single most destructive force in the galaxy!" It's a classic case of building the player up to be the All Mighty. And honestly... It is boring to be put on a pedestal. I think the story is decent, but in no way is it fantastic.
I hope they give us a choice to do this or not. I just can't see a good majority of my people ruling the known galaxy. MY characters are more about making money and their family, about it. They don't care about power or ruling or any of that nonsense. I know some people would love that, but I wouldn't.
Bioware, please remember our companion spouses when doing new expansions. I want scenes, letters, or something from them, saying they're worried!

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