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Gods from the Machine Mastermode/Nightmare Talkthrough-videos / Guides

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Gods from the Machine Mastermode/Nightmare Talkthrough-videos / Guides

Zwirni's Avatar


Zwirni
07.22.2019 , 05:31 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
First of all, I think it’s positive that you have spent time to create these videos, they are mostly correct and combined with videos from other teams, are a great resource for players venturing into Nightmare Gods for the first time. That said, in regards to your thoughts on the Nightmare community. You would rarely find players avoiding to help through answering questions and as you say, the videos that other teams posted of their kills as well as having players who had already done all the fights in your raid group, help you guys a lot as well. That, however, makes the latter part of your thread a bit confusing because as one can see from the streams from your team, very few of your strategies are original, despite “going in blind”.
I don't know how often I have to repeat that, but I never said that we are going in "blind". If you are looking for sources you will find none.
The word "publicly" is there for a reason in my original post. Noone publicly helped other groups and not just the ones who asked for help.

Thanks for the congratulations!

Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
I find it quite reasonable to be honest that a team who start their progress this late and have the strategies, mechanics and tactics for each boss fight available to them, along with having players who have done it before in their raid group, would kill all the bosses in the instance in a shorter time than teams who created said tactics and discovered how to deal with the new mechanics. I find it quite confusing how that seems to be a difficult concept for you to grasp, but perhaps I misread your post due to the language barrier?
Again, never said anything of the sort.
We simply said how long we took to clear it. I didn't shame anyone who took longer.

Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
I was fortunate enough to be part of a raiding group that started early with our progression and thus got the opportunity to do bosses without knowing the mechanics or how to deal with them. Naturally, it took us longer than you guys to kill the bosses, but then again we didn’t have any guides to read , that said I wouldn’t have liked to have had it any other way. That additional layer of challenge which this provided is something I enjoyed and I know lots of other players feel the same. On EU when there were players from more experienced groups filling in for groups that were progressing they weren’t instantly explaining everything, instead, the groups were allowed to progress independently with the players answering questions and helping the groups to understand the mechanics themselves if they wanted to. I am sure if these groups had players who had done all the fights before, could explain the strategies and execute the more difficult to learn mechanics, Izax would have been killed a lot earlier for all of them, but they didn't choose the same path as your team.
That's reasonable. We have a different perception here. I like the WoW-raidingcommunity a lot more because there are publicly released guides even during PTS and still the WorldFirstRace is the biggest thing on twitch since Method started streaming.

Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
As you say 6.0 means a new opportunity to start a new page for players to build on their respective servers raiding community, and I hope you as well as the other members of Berserk take a second to look at the tone of this thread and it’s message to see if this is really the way you want to start that off. There is already a vibrant and extensive raiding community, your server included, but with the way that you act all “high and mighty” while at the same time discrediting the efforts and accomplishments of others, starting on a new page at 6.0 might be too late.

All that said, once again good job with the videos and congratulations on your kill!
I never discredited the efforts and accomplishments of others. If you feel that way it is not based on my post. I simply gave out all the facts I have. The only thing I stated is that there is no public help for groups looking for it and given the hate in this thread I am pretty sure my post is on point.

BTW: The <Better Now> claims are just hilarious. We had one player of Better Now at 5 out of 15 raiding days and (sorry lukas) he didn't help much but just complained about not wanting to progress again. But w/e you won't believe that anyways

Magvay's Avatar


Magvay
07.22.2019 , 05:40 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Zwirni View Post
I don't know how often I have to repeat that, but I never said that we are going in "blind". If you are looking for sources you will find none.
The word "publicly" is there for a reason in my original post. Noone publicly helped other groups and not just the one who asked for help.

Thanks for the congratulations!



Again, never said anything of the sort.
We simply said how long we took to clear it. I didn't shame anyone who took longer.



That's reasonable. We have a different perception here. I like the WoW-raidingcommunity a lot more because there are publicly released guides even during PTS and still the WorldFirstRace is the biggest thing on twitch since Method started streaming.



I never discredited the efforts and accomplishments of others. If you feel that way it is not based on my post. I simply gave out all the facts I have. The only thing I stated is that there is no public help for groups looking for it and given the hate in this thread I am pretty sure my post is on point.
You know how i can tell you talking bs, cause if you didn't want that you would post something like We finally did it guys 5/5 gods NIM thanks community and BW for such an amazing ops and challenge, That's it but you start showing off times you pull counts going in blind and whatever else as i told from the start you are a hypocrite

Zwirni's Avatar


Zwirni
07.22.2019 , 05:45 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Magvay View Post
going in blind and whatever else as i told from the start you are a hypocrite
Again, never claimed that but you seem to be immune to reason.
And yes, I want to change the behaviour of people here. Not even 1% of the successful raiders think it would be a good idea to release guides. That is a deficiency of the SW:ToR raiding community.
You can disagree on that but instead you went for insults and being unreasonable. I wonder why there is not a massive *****torm under every fatboss video guide for new WoW-Bosses but instead 99% likes over dislikes...
That is another basic point of what is going wrong in the SW:ToR playerbase, pointless toxicity.

Magvay's Avatar


Magvay
07.22.2019 , 05:48 PM | #15
Pointless toxicity coming from the guy that is showing off at overgeared overcarried 8 month old content? Speaking of WoW you defo raiding like a normal mode there and probably buying m+ carrying cause even in heroic pugs there is so much as you call it toxicity that it would give you a heart attack is seems not speaking about high tier m+ keys. and obviously fatboss have likes cause fanbois will eat whatever **** blizzard is giving them, BFA was such a success that even casual guilds are bored from the game.

baoshengg's Avatar


baoshengg
07.22.2019 , 06:11 PM | #16
First of all, Congratz with the kill!

Second of all, Thanks for sharing the video's. it will help a lot for future team's who want to see how the fight is and what the basic mechanics are.

I think you guys did a great job!

I want to invite you guys for trial to join < Royal Panda Society > on republic side to join our nim team. This is of course when you got GODS timed before 6.0.

with that said i wish u good luck in the future.

May the force be with u
Ragiista [ Darth Malgus ]
Self knowledge is the first step to wisdom
IMP: < Inside out > | REP: < Royal Panda Society >

GamingCrimes's Avatar


GamingCrimes
07.22.2019 , 06:15 PM | #17
Since most of the replies to this thread seem to miss a lot of information, I just quickly want to clarify some things regarding Zwirni's post.

1.: Berserk went blind into the instance.

Our roster consists of 11 people, 2 of which cleared the instance already, one formerly being part of Infinitas and one being part of Better Now. I raided with Braindead Minds so I cleared 2/5 of the instance, three other people also cleared 2/5 bosses beforehand. We never said that we would go into the instance blind. I would like to see the source for this, but it probably just doesn't exist.
BTW: one of our raiders, Edvora to be exact, only has 3% of his eyesight left.

2.: We got carried by other guilds.

The only person that is currently not in our guild that was raiding with us is Nachtsense. Nachtsense used to play with us in Berserk back when we first created the guild and he still is a good friend of ours. Out of 15 days, he was around for ~5 days and helped us if we were missing a player. I can't prove that he didn't "carry" our tactics discussion, since we didn't stream with voice, but I can say that he wasn't the deciding factor in killing the bosses.

3.: We stole other guilds tactics.

We did take a look at the kill videos of other guilds and they were a great help. Our first Tyth kill was achieved by using our own tactic, but we changed it to a more common one since it is really hard to pull of consistently. On the other bosses we just looked for something that worked for us. Please don't get triggered because Zwirni said in his Nahut Video that the path in P1 is "our tactic". It's not, but I certainly don't think that it was Zwirni's intention to claim that this path was made by us.

4.: We blame the nightmare community for not being helpful and simply put, toxic.

First off I want to say that we don't know every single nightmare raider or every single nightmare raiding guild. But if you want prove that some parts of the nightmare raiding community are very toxic, just look at our twitch chat during progression. We were getting flamed for wiping, because "there are multiple kill videos out already, why don't you just kill the boss with that information". Just Nahigo's reaction to the talkthrough videos today shows a lot about the nightmare raiding community. After our first A&E kill our marauder was getting flamed for doing low dps, without even congratulating us for killing a more or less hard nightmare boss. It's just flame and unnecessary toxicity. There certainly are some helpful nightmare raiders, but in my experience, there are little left.
I don't think it is fair to say that no one in the nightmare community is helpful and friendly, but there certainly are reasons for Zwirni's claims.
EDIT: I just want to underline that Zwirni used the word publicly. Yes, everyone is helpful if they get asked, but new players just don't know any nightmare raiders and for those players a public talkthrough video is very, very helpful. And if you don't want to know the fight before even entering the instance, you are able to just not watch the video, because we are humans and can make our own decisions.

5.: We are bad because we took a long time for clearing the instance after it's been out for 9 months.

Most of the replies in this thread aren't directly discussing this statement, however I just quickly want to talk about this.
Most guilds took a very long time for clearing GftM, which is completely fine since it is a hard instance, but sadly a lot of them seem to forget the time when they were progressing the instance. Guilds like <Better now> (which probably are the main reason Zwirni is even making his statement) had kill videos as well, yet they took way more time on the individual boss fights than us. Now that we killed the boss, we are getting flamed for "not killing the boss the right way". I think most of you only speak highly of the raiding community because you don't understand german, feel free to translate:
https://prnt.sc/oioul4
https://prnt.sc/oioup5


6.: Exploits.

Yes, we think there are a lot of exploits that are being used for killing bosses. The only thing that Zwirni did was point this out, but this apparently automatically means that we blame others for using this. We used them ourselves, because we don't care about it, we just think it's funny that the only progression thread for this game is saying that "Exploits will not be tolerated", however no one really knows how to define what an exploit in this game is. Also, don't take everything too seriously. Putting "World First GftM Progression" in our streaming title is obviously a meme.



Lastly I want to thank every single guild for releasing their kill videos, they helped a lot. Also thank you to everyone who was, for a change of pace, supportive in our twitch chats and actually congratulated us for killing the bosses and clearing the instance.
Boatank Adu'has
Tulak Hord

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
07.22.2019 , 06:43 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by GamingCrimes View Post
5.: We are bad because we took a long time for clearing the instance after it's been out for 9 months.

Most of the replies in this thread aren't directly discussing this statement, however I just quickly want to talk about this.
Most guilds took a very long time for clearing GftM, which is completely fine since it is a hard instance, but sadly a lot of them seem to forget the time when they were progressing the instance. Guilds like <Better now> (which probably are the main reason Zwirni is even making his statement) had kill videos as well, yet they took way more time on the individual boss fights than us. Now that we killed the boss, we are getting flamed for "not killing the boss the right way". I think most of you only speak highly of the raiding community because you don't understand german, feel free to translate:
https://prnt.sc/oioul4
https://prnt.sc/oioup5
Is this part of your post due to some language barrier or a joke? People are reacting to the part of Zwirni's post that basically implies that Berserk is a better guild that Farming Components, Emerald, New Shirt, Better Now and Mangos because you guys killed the bosses far quicker than we did. Come on even you guys despite the high horses you guys seem to be sitting on should be able to understand why that was the case, those groups came up with the tactics you copied. The rest of the post makes sense and apart from people memeing Zwirni about him saying you guys were going in blind, most people seem to agree with you guys that guides are good, it's just it takes quite a bit of effort to do and nobody has done it yet.

I agree that the screenshots showcase a poor picture of the raiding community on the German server, but based on the above-made posts by in particular Zwirni, but also other Berserk members, you seem to be more part of the problem, than part of the solution. It's like a World Cup of who can misinterpret other peoples post the most and the winner gets a sense of pride and accomplishment.

Quote: Originally Posted by GamingCrimes View Post
however no one really knows how to define what an exploit in this game is.
Basically, as long as NA does it, it's fine, like getting pulled and reflecting both anchors to death two seconds after they spawned or using rebounder, both ways to totally avoid the DPS check on phase two, it's not an exploit. However, anything questionable that EU guilds do is considered an exploit

Bloodworthy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd - The Red Eclipse - Darth Malgus

Saga - FriendlyFire - Mango

Zwirni's Avatar


Zwirni
07.22.2019 , 06:54 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
Is this part of your post due to some language barrier or a joke? People are reacting to the part of Zwirni's post that basically implies that Berserk is a better guild that Farming Components, Emerald, New Shirt, Better Now and Mangos because you guys killed the bosses far quicker than we did. Come on even you guys despite the high horses you guys seem to be sitting on should be able to understand why that was the case, those groups came up with the tactics you copied.
You read something into my post that is not there. I gave you facts. What conclusions you draw from that is up to you. I came to the conclusion that I don't care about comparing <Berserk> to other guilds. How you got to believing that I think <Berserk> is superior to everyone else is beyond me.
I criticized people who flamed us for taking "that long" on the GftM bosses when they took over 2 months to kill a single boss after kill-videos were released themselves.

GamingCrimes's Avatar


GamingCrimes
07.22.2019 , 06:55 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
Is this part of your post due to some language barrier or a joke? People are reacting to the part of Zwirni's post that basically implies that Berserk is a better guild that Farming Components, Emerald, New Shirt, Better Now and Mangos because you guys killed the bosses far quicker than we did. Come on even you guys despite the high horses you guys seem to be sitting on should be able to understand why that was the case, those groups came up with the tactics you copied.

I agree that the screenshots showcase a poor picture of the raiding community on the German server, but based on the above-made posts by in particular Zwirni, but also other Berserk members, you seem to be more part of the problem, than part of the solution.
With that I just wanted to specifically point out the behaviour of the people in Better now.
We are not saying Berserk is a better guild. Please give me the exact statement in which we ever said that.
Also, please take a look when the first Killvideos were released. Better now had those videos during progression, yet they flame us for taking a lot of pulls for actually killing the boss. That is the only thing I'm criticizing with this part.
Please read Zwirni's post again, thoroughly this time. "Most" people is not everyone.
Boatank Adu'has
Tulak Hord