So, I've been dueling some pretty good players as of late, before I used to lose to them pretty consistently, now I do better. Now that I am winning more duels, I am frequently being told that my force cloak --> mind trap is a "cheap tactic". I of course, would use my 4 second stun on them when their hp got somewhat low. Almost everyone breaks this 4 second stun... and as soon as they do.. I use force cloak --> mind maze --> and then I use my out of combat heal.

 

 

The amount of people that are refusing to duel me or just getting outright pissed at me is increasing. Am I in the wrong here? Am I a cheap duelist? Where do you draw the line? Is Undying Rage also a "cheap tactic?" It gives you 4 seconds of nigh invincibility. Is smash cheap? It takes 1/3rd of your hp instantly if not more.

 

So what do you guys think? Is this force cloak/mind maze/heal a cheap and unacceptable tactic for dueling? I've even had other assassins/shadows tell me it's cheap, and that they don't do it even when fighting someone 1 on 1 in a normal warzone.

Honest opinion, I'd probably be angry if I fell victim to it but I'd say more people need to read Sirlin's Playing to Win (available for free online). What they are really saying is they can't lose gracefully to a better player. Don't sweat it man.

I think it is fine, you are not using a consumable or a relic, you are simply using your abilities to their fullest. You wouldn't complain if a marauder used cloak of pain or undying rage, would you? No. And them saying they wouldn't do that in a normal warzone, that is a blatant lie. I have seen people do worse all the time

I think it is fine, you are not using a consumable or a relic, you are simply using your abilities to their fullest. You wouldn't complain if a marauder used cloak of pain or undying rage, would you? No. And them saying they wouldn't do that in a normal warzone, that is a blatant lie. I have seen people do worse all the time

 

I think what shocked me the most is how other even other Shadows are getting mad at me for using it. When they use their 4 second stun on me, I don't break it, because I am worried that I will have that tactic used on me. Also I have told Marauders that I won't use that tactic on them if they don't use undying rage... they either don't have a response or they say it's not the same thing. I just don't get it. If it was really THAT cheap I think Bioware would've done something about it by now. However, it's a legit tactic that has been used since WoW days with rogues.

Honest opinion, I'd probably be angry if I fell victim to it but I'd say more people need to read Sirlin's Playing to Win (available for free online). What they are really saying is they can't lose gracefully to a better player. Don't sweat it man.

 

I clicked the link to that in another post. I was able to skim enough of it to read through that part. That whole article/book was way too long for me to read though.

I wish I could just link the original article (much shorter) that was first brought to my attention back when I was playing LoTRO when it first came out. Its very illuminating if a person is willing to recognize the mental barriers that frequently make up accusations of 'cheap'. I had the same block in a card game callled V:TES because I liked playing combat decks which are the hardest archtype to win with.

Definitely not a cheap trick. Its what we do as Assassins. We hit hard, run away and come back and hit hard again. Its not cheap for ops to chain stun the hell out of ya. Its not cheap for dps Mercs or Sorcs to use their heals, undying rage is not cheap trick either, Force leap to a Force Push back to a Force leap is not cheap trick either. Every class has abilities and they use them, but we Assassins get hated on when we use ours. Edited November 12, 2012 by Xethis

Alot harder to use in a WZ unless its a 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2

BW won't give a dam, only a few players bother duelling and in a WZ it's a lot less likely you can go out of combat to heal in the middle of a fight to get one up on someone.

" I am frequently being told that my force cloak --> mind trap is a "cheap tactic"

 

as charlie sheen would say-- i believe you are "winning"

It is not cheap because it is what the utility is designed to do. If you duel good operatives, they can simply cc you and heal up to full, is that cheap? If you duel a marauder they can get immunity from damage while dealing tons of damage at the same time, is that cheap? If you duel a jug, they can regain a bunch of hp back instantly, is that cheap? Or a sorc, and they are smart enough to run away, let dot drop, instant whirlwind and heal up to full? You get the point.

 

Take a duel with a good lightning/hybrid sorc that has instant whirlwind, I will take the 4 second cc because I am so scared that they will do instant whirlwind and I save my cc break for that. This previous situation is based on a duel in either full madness or deception/mad hybrid. Of course, everything is easy mode in tank spec....not worth talking about.

 

And frankly, it is not hard to counter, for any class that has a knockback, just do the knockback right after stealth to pop out. Yea, while force shroud may prevent that, but stars don't always align. Against certain classes you are forced to use force shroud on certain situation, for example, saving it while dueling a tank sin for their 3 stack harness cast. Not to mention classes that can cc you and heal (same thing) and classes that can scan you right after you pop stealth. I have tried this strat countless times on good scanning friend of mine, he insta scan every time I go stealth and there is simply no way to get away from that.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Dierdrea

in a duel as a shadow i would do almost the same thing, but in my opinion the mind maze and force cloak abilities are usable in a duel, however healing is not. even though it pops you out of combat, the heal should be used after the duel, otherwise it is kinda cheap to have two available health bars against somebody

 

*edit* and you cant compare that to fighting a healer, healers have crap dps so you should be able to beat them without having to heal up ooc, the reason the ooc heal is cheap to me is becuase it costs no resources, like a healer cast would

Edited November 20, 2012 by Rawrwafer