Brat-a-tat- Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 My guild was grouping up to fight dreadtooth, we saw a pub guild was all there so we switched to the other instance of section x. There was no one there. As we all started heading out to the area, the pub guild that had just downed him in instance 1 all switched to instance 2 and killed him again. Can something be done so this doesn't happen. It would be very uncool if one guild could monopolize both instances of the area and all dreadtooth kills for multiple hours. Thanks -Navari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 My guild was grouping up to fight dreadtooth, we saw a pub guild was all there so we switched to the other instance of section x. There was no one there. As we all started heading out to the area, the pub guild that had just downed him in instance 1 all switched to instance 2 and killed him again. Can something be done so this doesn't happen. It would be very uncool if one guild could monopolize both instances of the area and all dreadtooth kills for multiple hours. Thanks -Navari The issue is that you saw a pub guild about to fight Dreadtooth in instance 1, and then swapped over to instance 2 but they'd already killed him and then swapped over to instance 2 before you downed him. What exactly happened between you switching and them killing him? Are you on a PvP server and got ganked? Or did someone DC and you were waiting for them to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brat-a-tat- Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 We were waiting for the rest of our group to get planet side, waiting for some long, long, long load screens to finish. We are not on a pvp server, we did not harass them (we were very tempted), and they did not harass us. We didn't get a chance to pull the boss. And yes were were still grouping up when they came and downed him in the second instance. My guild will obviously have another opportunity to down him no question, I am posting this because we noticed what they were doing and saw how much of an issue this could create across the server. I don't think one group should be able to farm the boss in multiple instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFerret Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) People have been telling Bioware since Nightmare Pilgrim was released that they need to instance these world bosses but they havent listened, if they had instanced it they could control the amount of times a player can kill him in a certain period, multiple groups could kill him at the same times avoiding unnecessary griefing, and no-one could interfere with the fight while not being grouped in that instance. So lots of solutions would be brought in if they instanced them yet they dont and havent so dont hold out much hope of them doing something about this. Edited December 6, 2012 by JFerret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephesia Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 People have been telling Bioware since Nightmare Pilgrim was released that they need to instance these world bosses but they havent listened, if they had instanced it they could control the amount of times a player can kill him in a certain period, multiple groups could kill him at the same times avoiding unnecessary griefing, and no-one could interfere with the fight while not being grouped in that instance. So lots of solutions would be brought in if they instanced them yet they dont and havent so dont hold out much hope of them doing something about this. But then, they wouldn't be world bosses any longer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzina Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I believe it's a 20 to 30 minute respawn. I recall waiting many hours for boss spawns in the open world in older MMOs. This is a bone thrown to the fans of spawn camping. You can either use /say to ask the pubs nicely to save you one while you get ready, or you can wait until you are all ready then pounce when it spawns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thasensei Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I believe it's a 20 to 30 minute respawn. I recall waiting many hours for boss spawns in the open world in older MMOs. This is a bone thrown to the fans of spawn camping. You can either use /say to ask the pubs nicely to save you one while you get ready, or you can wait until you are all ready then pounce when it spawns. The problem with this - specific to Dreadtooth - is that he gets harder every time he respawns. As I understand it, the only ways for him to drop down to his base difficulty are for Section X to empty out (which never happens) or through the Tuesday weekly reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arahakust Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I don't see a problem to doing anything. If a guild has the resources to monopolize Dreadtooth, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? World bosses aren't instanced for a reason and it's because they were intended to be a free for all, first come first serve. I am very vigilant about getting people on and grouped on on Tuesdays or whenever servers reset to try and get kills in because many people in my guild want to do it. Not only do I have to get a proper group going, I also have to fend off any would be competitors that try and snag him away from us, both opposite and same faction. I've had many opposite faction members come in while we were attempting to kill him and disrupt our kill, thus requiring more man power to come in and keep them at bay. I've also had same faction people come in and try to wipe us as well. Seeing this, why would I not kill him as many times as I can before it becomes impossible to do so? It is a selling point for my guild and a good one at that; essentially it will make groups have to either join us or find another way to get to him. If anything, it provides for a nice bit of competition in the open world, something that isn't very prevalent in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdoug Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Working as intended. To get World Bosses you need three things, Organization, Speed, and Strength. You seemed to be missing at least two of those and as such you lost your shot to a group that had all three. If your group rolled up and saw the other group fighting him and quickly switched zones you would have had him easily, the fact that you were not even gathered yet made losing him a foregone conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkhorseForLife Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I don't see a problem to doing anything. If a guild has the resources to monopolize Dreadtooth, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? World bosses aren't instanced for a reason and it's because they were intended to be a free for all, first come first serve. I am very vigilant about getting people on and grouped on on Tuesdays or whenever servers reset to try and get kills in because many people in my guild want to do it. Not only do I have to get a proper group going, I also have to fend off any would be competitors that try and snag him away from us, both opposite and same faction. I've had many opposite faction members come in while we were attempting to kill him and disrupt our kill, thus requiring more man power to come in and keep them at bay. I've also had same faction people come in and try to wipe us as well. Seeing this, why would I not kill him as many times as I can before it becomes impossible to do so? It is a selling point for my guild and a good one at that; essentially it will make groups have to either join us or find another way to get to him. If anything, it provides for a nice bit of competition in the open world, something that isn't very prevalent in this game. I MIGHT be a little biased since Tensa is an officer in my guild, but THIS ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkhorseForLife Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) My only complaint on Dreadtooth is that he doesn't gib people of the opposing faction as quickly or as mercilessly as I would like . Edited December 6, 2012 by DarkhorseForLife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uniz Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 it is a etiquette or lack there of issue. while it would be nice to have it instanced you will always have these issues now days. this is because a popular mmo never taught its player base etiquette but rather propagated selfishness and many other negative things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brat-a-tat- Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 I agree it is an etiquette issue. But there is no real way to solve that without instancing the Boss. Which, as previously pointed out, is not going to happen. So I will just chalk it up and hope for another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdoug Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 This particular case has nothing to do with etiquette. The Events as OP told it. 1. He shows up as the first person of his group to kill Dreadtooth. 2. Another group is killing him in Instance 1. 3. He moves to Instance 2. 4. The rest of his group takes their sweet time getting there. 5. The other group switches to Instance 2 and kills him again. 6. OP logs on to the SWTOR Forums to cry about something working as intended. It would be another thing if the other group did stuff to wipe the OP's group or the like. Like I said in a previous post, you need to be fast to get World Bosses, it is part of the nature of the beast. I would bet that the other group did not even see the OP's group as they were not even close to gathered. SWTOR has had people that have been surprisingly cool about world bosses, I have been in several Nightmare Pilgrim groups that took turns with other raids until one killed him. I played FFXI back in the day and guilds were absolutely cutthroat about world bosses. I remember a Japanese guild had a man hold a world boss that could be CCed for 14 hours to get it's daily spawn time to Japan-time. Training mobs into rival groups camping a World Boss was par for the course, especially after you lost a pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 But then, they wouldn't be world bosses any longer... Except they aren't world bosses anymore given there can be multiple instances of the same 'world' running concurrently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdoug Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Ok then, 1 instance for every planet/zone. And no crying allowed when someone swipes mob/box from you because your slow behind can't handle a fast paced game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephesia Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Except they aren't world bosses anymore given there can be multiple instances of the same 'world' running concurrently. I have a different understanding of the term world boss than you, given that other raid teams can approach your location, you can pass and go and sometimes fight it over for the right to kill the boss in my opinion that is a world boss, instanced world or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDarkFish Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Compete with groups....sure..np, the abiltiy for ONE person to grief you with a pull and 5 mins debuff before next pull....really silly. Then lets not forget waiting for PAT for key positioning. Add the two together and you have 30mins between pulls...if your lucky. Tag lag into that because 80 people are in instance and what you have is 1-2 pulls per hour again...if your lucky. THAT. IS .CRAZY. How about we put the pat as simply in arena best to fight him in, and lower instance population.....sounds like easy enough fix, or am I "under" thinking it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uniz Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 This particular case has nothing to do with etiquette. The Events as OP told it. 1. He shows up as the first person of his group to kill Dreadtooth. 2. Another group is killing him in Instance 1. 3. He moves to Instance 2. 4. The rest of his group takes their sweet time getting there. 5. The other group switches to Instance 2 and kills him again. 6. OP logs on to the SWTOR Forums to cry about something working as intended. It would be another thing if the other group did stuff to wipe the OP's group or the like. Like I said in a previous post, you need to be fast to get World Bosses, it is part of the nature of the beast. I would bet that the other group did not even see the OP's group as they were not even close to gathered. SWTOR has had people that have been surprisingly cool about world bosses, I have been in several Nightmare Pilgrim groups that took turns with other raids until one killed him. I played FFXI back in the day and guilds were absolutely cutthroat about world bosses. I remember a Japanese guild had a man hold a world boss that could be CCed for 14 hours to get it's daily spawn time to Japan-time. Training mobs into rival groups camping a World Boss was par for the course, especially after you lost a pull. it is a etiquette issue as a group was there getting ready to kill him and the other group NEEDED to wait its turn. i can understand why you dont know this as you are part of the problem having never learned this old world boss rule. it is exactly like i said a popular mmo never taught its player base etiquette and now games must be designed around it. your ffxi example is a prime example of the lack of etiquette. just because it was the norm there and in wow doesnt mean it is the "norm". this is how guilds get black listed and have problems recruiting. a majority of people dont want to play with a bunch of richards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdoug Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 it is a etiquette issue as a group was there getting ready to kill him and the other group NEEDED to wait its turn. i can understand why you dont know this as you are part of the problem having never learned this old world boss rule. it is exactly like i said a popular mmo never taught its player base etiquette and now games must be designed around it. your ffxi example is a prime example of the lack of etiquette. just because it was the norm there and in wow doesnt mean it is the "norm". this is how guilds get black listed and have problems recruiting. a majority of people dont want to play with a bunch of richards. You missed a key bit. I would bet that the other group did not even see the OP's group as they were not even close to gathered. An organized group would likely pop from one to the other only taking time to distribute loot and check to see if the spawn is up and ready to go. The OP's group appears to have not even been in zone and they only saw some random dude staring at Dreadtooth. It would be different if the OP's group was fully formed and he had told the other group, "Yo, we had a guy d/c when he reconnects we are going to pull. If we wipe, you'll get a shot," or something similar. From what I gathered most of the raid was not even on the planet yet, and honestly I can't blame that all for taking the mob. I would have a lot more sympathy towards the OP if the big bad organized group ignored them when they were a man short or if they pulled shenanigans to cause a wipe, but from what the OP has said that was not the case. The other group was faster and better organized. As far as popular MMOs go, I have been active enough to do world bosses on three games. WoW (through Burning Crusade), FFXI (through Chains of Promatia), and SWTOR. Of them people have been the coolest about world bosses in SWTOR by a country mile. The only times in WoW I had issues during World Boss fights were from Cross-Factional interference, which frankly is part of the thrill of doing them in a PvP setting. There is a competitive aspect to doing open world bosses, and if you can't handle losing the occasional pull to another group you might want to just stick to instanced content. And crying over Dreadtooth is especially childish as he has a very fast respawn timer as far as World Bosses go. Lastly, etiquette does not necessarily mean "being nice," it is just the socially accepted rules of conduct. In the case of FFXI, the heavy competition and all the tricks involved were within bounds of etiquette, especially there as the Japanese players were on the server first, pretty much made the rules, and were very much into acting properly. I would go so far as to say that most MMOs could use a dose of Japanese-style MMO etiquette. It would put an end to the high stupidity that plagues Fleet Chat for hours at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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