MercArcher Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Calacoid War Games very first encounter is a perfect example of what not to do when designing a flash point. The very first encounter uses a very confusing mechanic in the turrets that has not been used before and that no one knows how to use initially. There is no tutorial, you're just thrown into a wipe with no idea how the turret functions. In the future when adding new mechanics such as a vehicle/turret style encounter some quick instruction would be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauZaIM Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Lol, you expect flashpoints and game encounter mechanics to come with a manual? What kind of challenge is that? It completely ruins the point. You are supposed to have to figure things out on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasffion Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Calacoid War Games very first encounter is a perfect example of what not to do when designing a flash point. The very first encounter uses a very confusing mechanic in the turrets that has not been used before and that no one knows how to use initially. There is no tutorial, you're just thrown into a wipe with no idea how the turret functions. In the future when adding new mechanics such as a vehicle/turret style encounter some quick instruction would be helpful. Granted I've only played WoW but they don't generally give tutorials on how to beat the dungeons. Deadmines comes to mind where you have to have 1 guy get in the Robot and hold off the adds while everyone else takes out the boss. There's no tutorial for this, people had to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthya Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Took us a bit to nail the first encounter last night, but felt rather rewarding when we did. Honestly, I'd completely disagree with you. It's a perfect example of how *to* design a flash point. Felt very different to the typical MMO dungeon experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercArcher Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Lol, you expect flashpoints and game encounter mechanics to come with a manual? What kind of challenge is that? It completely ruins the point. You are supposed to have to figure things out on your own. When the entire encounter is based off of a gimmick of being in a turret where you are given no explanation of how to control the turret? Yes i expect a manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmanjokk Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 (edited) The firing rate of the turrets was inconsistent, and if an enemy got too close it wouldnt even register until it started pounding on you. Sometimes you would get a double spawn. Very buggy encounter Edited December 18, 2011 by bigmanjokk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakemi Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Anyone remember the days where you couldnt find out everything ever on the internet? I agree with a previous post it is more fun and more rewarding to figure it out for myself rather than be spoon fed tactics. Much to my Guild leaders annoyance I never read up on tactics in WoW, just turn up and hope for the best ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercArcher Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Anyone remember the days where you couldnt find out everything ever on the internet? I agree with a previous post it is more fun and more rewarding to figure it out for myself rather than be spoon fed tactics. Much to my Guild leaders annoyance I never read up on tactics in WoW, just turn up and hope for the best ^^ Get in a turret 50 mobs spawn Go How do you shoot the turret? How do you aim the turret? Respond within 5 seconds or you wipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasffion Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Get in a turret 50 mobs spawn Go How do you shoot the turret? How do you aim the turret? Respond within 5 seconds or you wipe. Wiping is not a big deal. How many times did you wipe before you figured it out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercArcher Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Wiping is not a big deal. How many times did you wipe before you figured it out? 6 before we just quit and went back to questing because it just wasn't worth continuing. We figured it out after 4 attempts, but the encounter is extremely buggy and inconsistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnell Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 This encounter is extremely buggy and was impossible to complete. Add this to the list of high level content bugs. Hundreds of mobs spawning and turrets that fire like they are running out of batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthya Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) Not impossible to complete. The firing rate is slow, but not unmanagably so. Biggest problem is that the guns just refuse to fire unless you're aiming directly at a creature. But that can be overcome with, well, practice. We successfully completed the FP last night. First encounter admittedly took almost a dozen wipes till we had memorised every single spawn point, but we got it down. Got some good loot for it, too. Subsequent encounter was interesting. Final boss was quite fun and relatively challenging, too. Edited December 19, 2011 by Anthya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhak Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) I kinda agree with OP for the factor that wiping tons of times really shouldn't be mandatory in order to learn boss fights. In order to succeed, maybe, but if something is so complicated that after an attempt you don't have any idea what's going on, that is poorly designed. It wouldn't be a big deal if wiping didn't get so damn expensive. It is very pricey dying half a dozen times in a single FP. The death of your whole group shouldn't be a mandatory stepping stone of FP progression. It should be that happens when you mess up, or don't quite understand the encounter yet, or a combination of not performing on par and a surprise/mistake or two. I don't want a manual, and I don't want boss fights to be easy. I want them to be designed in a way that lets a group take a leap of faith and try their best to figure it out with guaranteeing they'll be slaughtered just to get a small taste of the strategy required. That's just stupid and poor designing. Edited December 19, 2011 by Mhak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobiwang Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Not impossible to complete. The firing rate is slow, but not unmanagably so. Biggest problem is that the guns just refuse to fire unless you're aiming directly at a creature. But that can be overcome with, well, practice. We successfully completed the FP last night. First encounter admittedly took almost a dozen wipes till we had memorised every single spawn point, but we got it down. Got some good loot for it, too. Subsequent encounter was interesting. Final boss was quite fun and relatively challenging, too. The fact that it seems every other attempt someone had an issue getting onto the turret to begin with was a huge headache (Ive had it where you "mount" the turret, but cant control it. I've had to click it 1-3 more times before I actually control it). That almost guaranteed a wipe. Combine that with the fact that the shooting speed is highly unreliable and many of the ranged cociloids spawn already shooting at you and you have a recipe for disaster. The group I run with has never wiped to any boss (even the first time we ran into the Republic Boarding Party in MR) and we struggled for about 1/2 a dozen attempts before we just gave up and went back to questing. Extremely aggravating and not enjoyable whatsoever aside from the first attempt when it still had a novelty feel to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightmgl Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) Granted I've only played WoW but they don't generally give tutorials on how to beat the dungeons. Deadmines comes to mind where you have to have 1 guy get in the Robot and hold off the adds while everyone else takes out the boss. There's no tutorial for this, people had to figure it out. Deadmines taught you how to use the robot on the trash before the boss. Theres a difference between handing someone an instruction manual and easing them into a new mechanic. Edited December 19, 2011 by Lightmgl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacedd Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Calacoid War Games very first encounter is a perfect example of what not to do when designing a flash point. The very first encounter uses a very confusing mechanic in the turrets that has not been used before and that no one knows how to use initially. There is no tutorial, you're just thrown into a wipe with no idea how the turret functions. In the future when adding new mechanics such as a vehicle/turret style encounter some quick instruction would be helpful. Go back to WoW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straza Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Go back to WoW I love this response, it shows true ignorance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordeqai Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Hokay, now here's the deal. Having a tutorial and having the game tell you what to do are two different things. Mordeqai thinks that you should learn how to do things on your own. Mordeqai thinks that people who think they need a manual for everything will not prosper in end game content. Mordeqai's 1 Credit is worth more than your 1 Credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonedaddypro Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I love this response, it shows true ignorance True ignorance, seems more like 0 tolerance for the WoW babies who need hands held. IMO kids like this are the reason MMO's general content has dropped in quality just to be more fitting to those who cant figure out a mechanic on their own or are all pissy when they need to put in work to get a kill. Personally I couldnt be happier that a boss got under your skin this badly that you chose to post on a forum so we can all laugh at your stupidity and obvious lack of skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkyTheTank Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 when the entire encounter is based off of a gimmick of being in a turret where you are given no explanation of how to control the turret? Yes i expect a manual. roar im a teenager i expect everything to be given to me roarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straza Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 True ignorance, seems more like 0 tolerance for the WoW babies who need hands held. IMO kids like this are the reason MMO's general content has dropped in quality just to be more fitting to those who cant figure out a mechanic on their own or are all pissy when they need to put in work to get a kill. Personally I couldnt be happier that a boss got under your skin this badly that you chose to post on a forum so we can all laugh at your stupidity and obvious lack of skill. You win the internetz!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swpoop Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 True ignorance, seems more like 0 tolerance for the WoW babies who need hands held. IMO kids like this are the reason MMO's general content has dropped in quality just to be more fitting to those who cant figure out a mechanic on their own or are all pissy when they need to put in work to get a kill. Personally I couldnt be happier that a boss got under your skin this badly that you chose to post on a forum so we can all laugh at your stupidity and obvious lack of skill. I wouldn't poke fun at his skill. I will bet he is killing end game content before you. Regardless, if the fight was not so insanely bugged, the encounter might be more "fun". Maybe add a few practice bugs so everyone feels the turrets better and then bring on the waves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaerox Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Yea, or they could have worker bugs come out that don't do anything for the first two waves come at you.. Or... could man up and kill stuff?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobiwang Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I'm surious as to how many people that are saying "Its fine, L2P" have actually even seen this flashpoint. There's no doubt that it needs work in one way or another. I've done raid bosses in beta that were easier than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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