Greetings Fellow Forum Goers-

 

I have started this thread because I am greatly concerned over how quickly Bioware/Mythic/EA hot-nerfed about due to excessive QQ on twitter and the forums.

 

For the moment, let's completely ignore whether or not slicing was imbalanced. I do not think it was, others will disagree. I want to focus our discussion on whether or not the response was appropriate given the amount of time spent at launch.

 

My reason for starting this discussion is that I am greatly concerned about future development plans and patch cycles given that with the game being released less than a week, Bioware opted to drastically change the RNG for one skill profession based on complaint volume.

 

Discuss.

I have not heard anything official that any such nerf exists, but if it does, then, yes, that is a bit disturbing.

I'm ambivalent about slicing, but I'd question making statements like yours and presenting them as fact. Could they have caved to all the whining? Yeah. Could it also have been that people play a release client a great deal differently than beta? That they got numbers back that were not in line with their overall goals? These are possible as well.

 

I know of no person that created an army of alts just to run slicing missions in the beta, but I know of a few that have in release. Money was worthless when the delete button was hovering overhead at all times.

 

Could be that it has nothing to do with the money at all, and they just want to encourage people to take up the other crafts. If they see that a high percentage of people are taking slicing over anything else then it's also in the interests of the game to change it.

 

I suppose my point is that we don't know why, and a week after launch means they have live server information to base the decisions on. They didn't have that before launch.

I for one am happy to see a company not be afraid to make live changes so rapidly.

 

Always disliked the way other companies did with test servers. Change sits on test for months usually, the companies then push it out to live, and it's still buggy. In that time economy, balance whatever is screwed more and more on the live servers. I always felt it should be tested to make sure it doesn't crash clients/servers etc then just put it on live where the real balance is.

 

Remember as fast as they changed it they can change it back if they feel the need.

The only people crying nerf slicing are the people who made a lot of credits and now want it nerfed so others cannot.

Something have definitly changed with slicing. I've noticed a dramatic change in the amout of credits im getting from lockboxes. Currently level 385.

 

Anybody else notice this???

 

Thawm

I have not heard anything official that any such nerf exists, but if it does, then, yes, that is a bit disturbing.

 

There was a twitter feed confirming that the issue with slicing "had been taken care of". Someone with more time on their hands can dig it up. They definitely reduced the number of Rich and Bountiful class 4 and 5 yields.

I'm confused, what nerf? I heard they lowered the numbers from beta but that's what beta is, testing and balancing, etc. If that's what this is about, it's not a nerf, it's normal....and people are still making a nice amount of money doing slicing so there's nothing to complain about. If this is about something else, please enlighten us.

 

For the moment, let's completely ignore whether or not slicing was imbalanced. I do not think it was, others will disagree. I want to focus our discussion on whether or not the response was appropriate given the amount of time spent at launch.

 

 

This thread is ridicules before it even begins..

 

you can't talk about effect without talking about cause..

Something have definitly changed with slicing. I've noticed a dramatic change in the amout of credits im getting from lockboxes. Currently level 385.

 

Anybody else notice this???

 

Thawm

 

Yes, I've noticed this. And if the real purpose of Slicing is to discover blue & above schematics (as I've read) then they've failed, because I'm not receiving schematics and the lockboxes now very frequently return less than the mission cost and quite often result in failure.

 

I'm disappointed that they reacted so quickly to a situation that wouldn't last i.e. an alt army running slicing missions. If there were players doing that they wouldn't continue the practice as the game progressed, it's too much trouble for what it's worth.

There was a twitter feed confirming that the issue with slicing "had been taken care of". Someone with more time on their hands can dig it up. They definitely reduced the number of Rich and Bountiful class 4 and 5 yields.

 

It is still easy to clean up with slicing. BTW, the 4 and 5's were never the most profitable when you factor in time.

I atill make money ... not sure what was nerfed.

No nerf here.

There was a twitter feed confirming that the issue with slicing "had been taken care of". Someone with more time on their hands can dig it up. They definitely reduced the number of Rich and Bountiful class 4 and 5 yields.

 

If you are going to say it was nerfed, don't post useless garbage without proof no matter how lazy you are. There is only one official twitter that even matters with this game and its the official one, where there was NO MENTION OF SLICING.

I do not support a 'nerf' because of the following.

 

I'd like to take a moment to talk about how slicing in its current form helps SWTORs economy, and why I think many are over reacting. SWTOR is a game of fixed rates. By which I mean the following cost/profits never change:

 

1. Character skill training

2. Crew Skill Missions Cost (The money you pay to send crew on missions)

3. Crew Skill Missions Return (The money you get from slicing)

4. Mount Training

5. Mount Cost (high end CE costs *a lot* of money.)

 

This means that Slicing has a fixed ceiling on profit. 10 months from now, I will be able to make just as many direct credits from slicing as I can today. For arguments sake, lets say I can make 5000 credits an hour max using slicing. (Not the real number, just makes the math easier)

 

There is only 1 area in which prices can inflate, and deflate:

 

1. The Galactic Trade Network: where we can sell our crafted/discovered goods.

 

Today a stack of Silica may sell for 500 credits. In four months time that stack of silica may sell for as much as a 10,000 credits. (An over simplified, and extreme example, to be sure.)

 

That means, as a slicer, today I can buy a lot of silica. In four months, I could only buy a stack after two hours of missions.

 

Here's the rub though: The Underworld Trader got that silica through a Crew Skill Mission at a fixed cost--it will never change. (Let's say 100 credits, I can't recall the exact cost of an UT mission right now.) Today, or 4 months from now it costs him the same amount of credits to acquire the raw goods, but he's selling it for 9500 more credits at stack. That's not inflation, that is profit induced by fixed-rate game mechanics. That is profit a player NEEDs to further their own crew skills, buy mounts, and train combat abilities.

 

 

Now, "Freeborne," you might say, "What about slicing nodes in the wild? Can't Slicers really boost their income with those?"

 

And I'd say, "Poster, I'm glad you asked!"

 

The answer is yes, and no. A slicer may find wild nodes, and shoot up his/her credit per/hour income. However, any of the other harvesting crew skills may do the same thing, and sell their goods on the GTN. And even if the Slicer *is* making more credits per hour, it just translates into more money they can spend on the GTN.

 

 

"But Freeborne," you could ask next, "What about players who only BUY things from the GTN, and don't sell on it. Won't they suffer from this Inflation?"

 

And I'd say, "Yes. Those players aren't participating in an MMO economy. They're driving by it and they're doing their own thing (which is certainly their right), but the thing is:"

 

If a player isn't taking a mission skill that returns marketable goods (Diplomacy, maybe? Can't tell you how well the "companion gift" market will do. But you can't sell the LS/DS points you get.), and is only depending on income from quests/mobs in the game, they are in for a World of Hurt--even if we removed Slicing from the game. You need to bring either disposable income, or desired goods to the market. The games current credit return from questing barely covers your combat skill training + mount training.

 

What does this tell us? Slicing *needs* to exist, otherwise people won't have have the disposable income required to purchase off the GTN.

 

If you have a clear, and academic, argument as to why slicing is "bad" for the economy, please post it in response and I'd be happy to debate it with you.

Can someone dig up that tweet, please? Until then, this is all unfounded.

Slicing was nerfed? I can't tell a difference.

I can tell a difference, it has been changed. Slicing is still profitable once you can have 3+ crew out, but they force you to wade through a larger percentage of moderate missions to get to the bountiful and rich missions now.

 

In my experience it is still a useful skill, just not auto-win. I am, however, concerned if Bioware caved to forum qq. The folks who take the time to ***** on the forums are usually just a very vocal minority. Keeping slicing the way it was for another month or so would have really helped to energize the economy.

 

As it is now the AH UI is so clunky, the cost to list so high, and the number of people with money to burn so low, that very little business (comparatively) is being done on the AH.

Since i got kinda curious about slicing i dropped a gathering skill and took slicing.

 

This are the results.

 

I had armstech, scavenging and investigation.

 

for example, i made 20k a day with that.

 

I dropped investigation and even though i have to buy the stuff i normally got with investigation i now make 40k a day.

 

So u people can make up the rest and draw conclusions.

I can tell a difference, it has been changed. Slicing is still profitable once you can have 3+ crew out, but they force you to wade through a larger percentage of moderate missions to get to the bountiful and rich missions now.

 

In my experience it is still a useful skill, just not auto-win. I am, however, concerned if Bioware caved to forum qq. The folks who take the time to ***** on the forums are usually just a very vocal minority. Keeping slicing the way it was for another month or so would have really helped to energize the economy.

 

As it is now the AH UI is so clunky, the cost to list so high, and the number of people with money to burn so low, that very little business (comparatively) is being done on the AH.

 

You should never have to run a moderate mission once you get a full set of missions for level 2.

Get some companion affection and you're slicing problems are solved.

You should never have to run a moderate mission once you get a full set of missions for level 2.

 

I am talking about lvl 400 with 4 companions going. You will occasionally be forced into a moderate mission to force another rich or bountiful mission to populate in its place. Otherwise you just have it taking up a spot in your mission queue.

I am talking about lvl 400 with 4 companions going. You will occasionally be forced into a moderate mission to force another rich or bountiful mission to populate in its place. Otherwise you just have it taking up a spot in your mission queue.

 

I am not up to 4 yet but at 3 I never run a moderate and rarely have to run an abundant.

 

Do you understand the most profitable missions when factoring in time are actually in the level 25-32 range?

I am not up to 4 yet but at 3 I never run a moderate and rarely have to run an abundant.

 

Do you understand the most profitable missions when factoring in time are actually in the level 25-32 range?

 

I'd like to see a spreadsheet that lays out the best time = money returns. However, my experience suggests that tiers 3-5 are the best to continue to run when factoring in the non-lockbox extras that come back like missions and cybertech schematics. Even so I often run out of rich missions for tiers 3-5 with four companions running and am forced to run other less desirable missions, especially factoring in the time reductions I am seeing by mixing in companions with a high rate of affection and the droid or newer companions.

ppl felt silcing needed a nerf for more then 6months in beta they nerfed it a little in last two phases but ppl still make easy money off it.