Hello dear friends.

Im gonna highlight one thing in tanking that bothers me a little.

Maybe my thoughts will be criticized by theorycrafters and heavy raiders, but give it a chance.

How many times do you see DPS with 40000+ health?

I guess pretty frequently

Wich leads me to a logical question - how can it be that DPS and tank can have same amount of HP?

Answer is - poor gear design.

All hi-end gear requires augmentation. And basically it gives you a huge boost to your stats.

But there's one thing that always frustrates me - why tanking augments doesn't contain endurance with defensive stats?

I can understand that power provides some damage + threat generation for tank attacks.

But why don't we go in a little different direction - incresing threat AND add endurance to defensive augments?

Tanks never was designed to DEAL damage. Its a dps job.

So my suggestion is....

1. Remove power from defensive augments and replace it with endurance (more health + same damage reduction. Win+win).

2. Since power removed from augments - add more threat generate for tanks ( i really doubt that can be SO hard).

And... That's all

You are probably not comparing apples to apples. An example:

• I have a healer that is full rating 180+ gear and he's got 39.5k health (with buffs no stim; skill stim does not add endurance).
  
• I have a tank that is a mix of ratings 162, 168, and 180 (approximately evenly split with an average rating of 172) and he's got 40.2k health (with buffs no stim; add the Fortitude stim and he's above 42k.)
  

both are fully augmented. Only ~700 total health difference but VERY different levels of gear.

Looking at screenshots I recently took of my operations group, the tanks - that are similarly geared to my healer - have 45k+ health

Lastly, in PvE all the health in the world is all but meaningless without mitigation. take a 40k health tank and he can take a beating from a boss. That 40k DPS is probably dead inside of 3 GCDs.

Obviously you both didn't pay attention for what i wrote...

Ill repeat in caps.

REMOVE POWER FROM DEFENSIVE AUGMENTS AND PUT ENDURANCE.

I didn't say a single word for removing defensive stats, were did you get that?

Hello dear friends.

Im gonna highlight one thing in tanking that bothers me a little.

Maybe my thoughts will be criticized by theorycrafters and heavy raiders, but give it a chance.

 

How many times do you see DPS with 40000+ health?

I guess pretty frequently

Wich leads me to a logical question - how can it be that DPS and tank can have same amount of HP?

Answer is - poor gear design.

All hi-end gear requires augmentation. And basically it gives you a huge boost to your stats.

But there's one thing that always frustrates me - why tanking augments doesn't contain endurance with defensive stats?

I can understand that power provides some damage + threat generation for tank attacks.

But why don't we go in a little different direction - incresing threat AND add endurance to defensive augments?

Tanks never was designed to DEAL damage. Its a dps job.

 

So my suggestion is....

 

1. Remove power from defensive augments and replace it with endurance (more health + same damage reduction. Win+win).

2. Since power removed from augments - add more threat generate for tanks ( i really doubt that can be SO hard).

 

And... That's all

let me guess you are one of those stack endurance to max and ignore your mitigation type tanks that needs to

LEARN 2 TANK

if you ever see tanks that stack nothing but endurance with zero mitigation, you are best to just leave group it will be easier for you in the end.

Additionally tank without power is basically just a guy waving his arms at a boss "hey you, over here" unless you want to tickle the boss into aggro.

But feel free to go this route and throw spit wads at bosses who one shot you with basic attacks. see how well that works out for you in the long run.

let me guess you are one of those stack endurance to max and ignore your mitigation type tanks that needs to

 

LEARN 2 TANK

 

if you ever see tanks that stack nothing but endurance with zero mitigation, you are best to just leave group it will be easier for you in the end.

 

Additionally tank without power is basically just a guy waving his arms at a boss "hey you, over here" unless you want to tickle the boss into aggro.

 

But feel free to go this route and throw spit wads at bosses who one shot you with basic attacks. see how well that works out for you in the long run.

Sorry, dear friend - but... LEARN TO READ DAMN ENGLISH!!!!

Sigh...

No...

A tank needs to be able to put out enough damage to keep agro as well as be able to take a beating.

ALMOST NONE of the gear of vendors is fully optimized. So you can get your endurance elsewhere if you care that much about it.

I main tank for a raid and the last thing that I want to do is not be able to put out enough damage and loose agro (here is a hint, your taunts are to save your *** not meant to be how you always have agro)

So my suggestion is....

 

1. Remove power from defensive augments and replace it with endurance (more health + same damage reduction. Win+win).

2. Since power removed from augments - add more threat generate for tanks ( i really doubt that can be SO hard).

 

And... That's all

Oh My God...

Which part of this suggestion is ruining tanking agrro management and defensive stats?

Oh My God...

Which part of this suggestion is ruining tanking agrro management and defensive stats?

Because you want to reduce a critical stat for Tanks to be able to raise their threat.

Because you want to reduce a critical stat for Tanks to be able to raise their threat.

Did you read second part of it? Wich suggest to INCREASE DAMN THREAT GENERATION.

Are you even able to read, man?

Look closely and read it once again.

I feel like this solution is solving an issue that isn't there.

Since being a tank there is more then just how much health you have. That doesn't mean that there is a bad gear design.

Hell if they were to make changes to gear and everyone (assuming you were wearing best in slot) had the same amount of health but thanks to the other stats there was a difference it wouldn't matter.

The only "issue" is that you now need to spend 30 seconds looking at someones gear instead of just looking at their health to see if they are geared correctly.

I feel like this solution is solving an issue that isn't there.

Since being a tank there is more then just how much health you have. That doesn't mean that there is a bad gear design.

 

Hell if they were to make changes to gear and everyone (assuming you were wearing best in slot) had the same amount of health but thanks to the other stats there was a difference it wouldn't matter.

 

The only "issue" is that you now need to spend 30 seconds looking at someones gear instead of just looking at their health to see if they are geared correctly.

Do you have ANY argument to NOT to apply such changes exept for your "nah, tanks don't need more tanky" thing?

I mean real, argumented position.

Im sorry, but all i can hear is "blah blah blah i don't like it"

From my side i can say - i want tanks more like tanks. Absolut armored aggro machine. Wich will provide good defensive stats and large HP pool for healers.

Those changes will not break the game or make someone cry. They will make some difference between tanks and other roles as intended.

Do you have something against this?

Do you?

Then make some arguments.

Obviously you both didn't pay attention for what i wrote...

Ill repeat in caps.

 

REMOVE POWER FROM DEFENSIVE AUGMENTS AND PUT ENDURANCE.

 

I didn't say a single word for removing defensive stats, were did you get that?

Let me say it this way then. I DONT NEED ANYMORE ENDURANCE BECAUSE I HAVE THE MITIGATION I NEED POWER FOR DPS AND THREAT GENERATION

Let me say it this way then. I DONT NEED ANYMORE ENDURANCE BECAUSE I HAVE THE MITIGATION I NEED POWER FOR DPS AND THREAT GENERATION

Again - no real arguments.

Just "I DON"T LIKE IT - GO KILL YOURSELF!!!!!!!11111ONEONEONE"

Is this an e-peen issue ? His is bigger than mine ?

Ill try to explain:

1. DPS classes get buffed - tanks in sarlacc

2. DPS have 0 issue with gearing - tanks are still in sarlacc

3. Tanks (as role) need more love.

Do you have ANY argument to NOT to apply such changes exept for your "nah, tanks don't need more tanky" thing?

I mean real, argumented position.

Im sorry, but all i can hear is "blah blah blah i don't like it"

From my side i can say - i want tanks more like tanks. Absolut armored aggro machine. Wich will provide good defensive stats and large HP pool for healers.

Those changes will not break the game or make someone cry. They will make some difference between tanks and other roles as intended.

Do you have something against this?

Do you?

Then make some arguments.

Again you are asking for changes to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

I have been tanking since the game launched and regularly the only issue that I have is keeping agro with an over geared DPS (assuming myself or the healer isn't under geared).

Removing Power from augments and increasing threat generation on all tanks effectively lowers the "difficulty" of needing to keep agro as a tank.

This would also for the first time (I believe) increase the agro generated by tanks since the game launched.

I can agree that as a whole stats in this game may need some work. but removing a stat and increasing base agro generation just so we can increase endurance (when everything is tuned to work with the way gear is now) would make tanking a joke.

The ONLY possible change i would even consider would be switching some mitigation stats to increase endurance (healers don't kill me). But even this is pointless.

The problem with your argument is that you are assuming there is an issue because DPS and tanks can have the same health pool and not looking at the whole picture.

There is a very good reason that on all of the tanking guides on Dulfy's site... the only references to Endurance is in the comments.

Only bad tanks focus on stacking endurance.

Ill try to explain:

1. DPS classes get buffed - tanks in sarlacc

2. DPS have 0 issue with gearing - tanks are still in sarlacc

3. Tanks (as role) need more love.

Yes, I agree. A non of those problem have anything to do with the amount of hp tanks and heals/dps get.

Hello dear friends.

 

So my suggestion is....

 

1. Remove power from defensive augments and replace it with endurance (more health + same damage reduction. Win+win).

2. Since power removed from augments - add more threat generate for tanks ( i really doubt that can be SO hard).

 

And... That's all

let me respond

1) Endurance is NOT your primary stat. NOR should it be a rush to stack as much endurance as you can. I would rather than 39k health with high mitigation (def/shield/abosrob) along with power to increase my damage/threat. only BAD tanks stack endurance, A sentinel DPS with good use of defensive cooldowns will be a better thank than a tank with high endurance. a) they will hold and pull more aggro b) they will have a higher chance of surviving high damage attacks with proper use of defensive cooldowns than just relying on pure health bar

2) after a certain point most tanks stop stacking def/absorb/shield and instead stack primary/main power to aid in damage and treat generation. You can taunt all you want, if you swing a wet noodle at the boss you will not hold aggro.

So what everyone is saying and the part you are not getting is that endurance essentially a meaningless stat beyond a certain point and you will be better adding damage mitigation over endurance. I'm not sure you fully understand the tank roll. Its not mean to be top DPS but unless you kill it before it kills you eventually you WILL lose.

Again - no real arguments.

Just "I DON"T LIKE IT - GO KILL YOURSELF!!!!!!!11111ONEONEONE"

No real arguments? how about its not needed.

With all the possible changes you could have suggested you picked the one that's not needed. More mit/defense stats sure. A resolve bar? ok Higher threat modifiers I would be right there with you but endurance? we are fine.

And you want to take away the one thing that actually helps with dps and threat

let me respond

 

1) Endurance is NOT your primary stat. NOR should it be a rush to stack as much endurance as you can. I would rather than 39k health with high mitigation (def/shield/abosrob) along with power to increase my damage/threat. only BAD tanks stack endurance, A sentinel DPS with good use of defensive cooldowns will be a better thank than a tank with high endurance. a) they will hold and pull more aggro b) they will have a higher chance of surviving high damage attacks with proper use of defensive cooldowns than just relying on pure health bar

2) after a certain point most tanks stop stacking def/absorb/shield and instead stack primary/main power to aid in damage and treat generation. You can taunt all you want, if you swing a wet noodle at the boss you will not hold aggro.

 

So what everyone is saying and the part you are not getting is that endurance essentially a meaningless stat beyond a certain point and you will be better adding damage mitigation over endurance. I'm not sure you fully understand the tank roll. Its not mean to be top DPS but unless you kill it before it kills you eventually you WILL lose.

Ok. I give up.

But i guess you don't realize one fact - if defensive augments was have endurance as a secondary stat along with defensive from the beginning. And suddenly BW would change endurance to power - Oh, boy...

But who cares...

Afterall this was only my suggestion, no?

No real arguments? how about its not needed.

With all the possible changes you could have suggested you picked the one that's not needed. More mit/defense stats sure. A resolve bar? ok Higher threat modifiers I would be right there with you but endurance? we are fine.

And you want to take away the one thing that actually helps with dps and threat

lol, dude

Same thing would happend

Everyone started to cry - No! Tanks are fine! Who needs those changes!

PVP'ers would start something like - No!! Tanks are impossible to kill!!!

Elitists - No!!!! We need challenge!!!!

And more of this. Im not the first year in this game too, ya know.

And i know how its working.

Dude, sin tank in full 180 raid gear. 21% defense, 53% shield, 50% absorb, 40% armor. The expected dr of that is over 85%. 85, not counting the 4% dr proc that they should be maintaining. As it is, endurance is mostly a filler stat to buy healers time so long as you can survive 2 or 3 hits from the boss, and it is arguable a waste if your healers are good at their jobs because you'll never get low enough for the extra end to matter.

Threat gen is the real issue, and for the most part unless you're undergeared of screwing up your rotation, it's not really an issue after like the first 45 seconds or so of the fight because after that point taunts give MASSIVE boosts to threat that set you way above the dps. Tank swaps are also nevessayr for many of the fights, so the constant taunt use sets the tanks even further up. I would like to see a slight buff to tank guardian threat gen or damage, but more end is not what any of my tanks need.

Ok. I give up.

But i guess you don't realize one fact - if defensive augments was have endurance as a secondary stat along with defensive from the beginning. And suddenly BW would change endurance to power - Oh, boy...

But who cares...

Afterall this was only my suggestion, no?

I get plenty of endurance from barrels/armors/mods/enhancements that I don't need anymore from augments. If i wanted to stack endurance I'd just get endurance augments.

I stack def/shield/absorb augments depending on which mod/enhancement that I swap in/out as i change gear to maintain my mitigation ratios. I usually couldn't care less about the endurance, in fact, i've been swapping out tank armor/mods in exchange for damage/main stat to try and up the dps since survivability has not been an issue but when i'm a tank in 162/168/180s up against dps who are full 180s i need all the damage/threat i can get.

Ok. I give up.

But i guess you don't realize one fact - if defensive augments was have endurance as a secondary stat along with defensive from the beginning. And suddenly BW would change endurance to power - Oh, boy...

But who cares...

Afterall this was only my suggestion, no?

Tanks could use some love, that's true.

But you started off this as merely a matter of how much hp a dps has in comparisson to a tank which is, imo, the most trivial and unimportant thing to look at. Based on that, you are making this suggestion.