Note that when I say "canon", I am refering to a narrative that has been presented to us by BioWare as opposed to what's canon to individual players. (Like TOR:Revan making Revan lightside male who married Bastila while the Exile is a woman called Meetra Surik.)

Here's why I'm bringing this up. As I was playing through the Republic Story Arc for Quesh, I noticed that there are two characters that appear in both Story Arcs for both the Reps and Imps:

Another example could potentially be

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but this same thing later happens on Hoth's Planetary Arcs.

Are there any other examples of this happening?

Note that when I say "canon", I am refering to a narrative that has been presented to us by BioWare as opposed to what's canon to individual players. (Like TOR:Revan making Revan lightside male who married Bastila while the Exile is a woman called Meetra Surik.)

There isn't such a "canon" == definitive choice. It's one of the big stress points of a forking narrative.

Here's why I'm bringing this up. As I was playing through the Republic Story Arc for Quesh, I noticed that there are two characters that appear in both Story Arcs for both the Reps and Imps:

Broga the Hutt who is a Republic ally, and Moff Dracen. The Reps are able to kill or capture Dracen, and the Imps are able to recruit or kill Broga. The only way I see it is that either Dracen was spared and later escaped from Republic custody, or Broga betrayed the Imps..

You missed the third possibility, that only your character participates in the provided non-class content. Presumably the other classes got busy doing other things, and certainly the others on your faction *must* have been doing other things, since most of the <Story Arc> and other non-class missions aren't feasible (from a story point of view) for multiple people to do. It's fairly obvious that multiple people can do Inquisitor Arzanon's mission to hunt traitors, but the mission for Lord Abaron to scan the overseers doesn't make any sense as a multiple-participant thing.

Another example could potentially be

the Nekghouls on Taris. The Republic stories on Taris take place prior to the Imps going there, and when you play through the bonus series for the reps, you can either spare the Nekghouls studying from a holocron or kill them all. Now this one isn't quite as, intriguing I suppose is an appropriate word, seeing as there could be more nekghouls out there. As for Dracen and Broga, well to me anyway that's mind-boggling.

True, in that case the contradictions are less clear-cut. It's hard to see how the player could *obviously* have killed all of the Nekghouls, and I'd need to run the Imp Taris <Story Arc> to pin down exactly where an Impsider goes compared to where the Pubsiders go. I think it's somewhere else, though.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but this same thing later happens on Hoth's Planetary Arcs.

The Reps are tasked with destroying a power station on Hoth to keep the Imps from taking control of it. When you get to the station, you get to either leave it be because Ortolan settlers have claimed it or you can set the last charge. The Imps have to go to that power station to stop Team Zero, a Republic Squadron, from detonating that base. This would, assuming I'm right on this, imply that the canon choice is to set the power station up to be destroyed.

Except that we don't know, in the case of the Impsider, know which Pubside person ordered that attack. It might have been the player, or it might have been some military high muckety-muck.

Are there any other examples of this happening?

Probably, although in general I favour it being just that if the other classes are present in your character's universe, doing their class-specific stuff(1), only *your* character gets to do the provided non-class missions. The others get other non-class stories instead.

(1) It isn't automatically the case. A few things don't make sense if it is the case, notably the point that when Kaliyo shows up in Doc's companion story (actually physically present in the Knight's ship), she travels there *from*Hutta*, where she shouldn't be if the Agent's story was proceeding normally.

I view everything of my Imperial character stories, class and planet, as prequels to my Republic character stories. For example, the Empire conquering Corellia in Imperial Story leads up to the Republic returning and my Republic hero liberating the planet. It doesn't always mesh up well as the scripts go. Imperial Taris story blows up the Republic base you use in Republic Taris story, so it becomes a stretch to say Republic rebuilds it. The Voss planet stories are self-contained in their conclusion. Completing one would mean the other couldn't even take place. I let it go.

Imperial story as prequels to Republic stories works for me. I say prequels because I alternate sides, Republic counterpart first. No problem saying Republic stories are sequels to Imperial stories. Republic/Imperial Makeb are simultaneous. There's no satisfactory relationship with Ilum, Revan, Eternal Throne, Onslaught. They're alternate realities.

There isn't such a "canon" == definitive choice. It's one of the big stress points of a forking narrative.

Well I was pretty much trying to keep head-canon in mind before someone brought that whole thing up, but I do believe I understand what canon means: A single undisputed event or timeline. (If I'm wrong on this, do let me know. Wouldn't be surprised if I am.)

You missed the third possibility, that only your character participates in the provided non-class content. Presumably the other classes got busy doing other things, and certainly the others on your faction *must* have been doing other things, since most of the <Story Arc> and other non-class missions aren't feasible (from a story point of view) for multiple people to do. It's fairly obvious that multiple people can do Inquisitor Arzanon's mission to hunt traitors, but the mission for Lord Abaron to scan the overseers doesn't make any sense as a multiple-participant thing.

Basically that's the thing, I'm treating my characters that way where they're all in a single universe/timeline (meaning that for example since my Mara helped Arzanon and Abaron, my Sin isn't doing those missions.) Indeed only one character would be able to do the missions, that's what I meant: My Imp toon has to spare Broga for him to later betray the Imps and go to his palace. And well, the last thing I want is to find myself making what would be the wrong choice since I'm trying to maintain continuity.

True, in that case the contradictions are less clear-cut. It's hard to see how the player could *obviously* have killed all of the Nekghouls, and I'd need to run the Imp Taris <Story Arc> to pin down exactly where an Impsider goes compared to where the Pubsiders go. I think it's somewhere else, though.

Taris doesn't really bother me at all to be honest. The Nekghouls your toon and Thana face most likely weren't around that holocron.

Except that we don't know, in the case of the Impsider, know which Pubside person ordered that attack. It might have been the player, or it might have been some military high muckety-muck.

Good point. I could have a Rep toon decide not to blow the base up only for some other Rep person to send Team Zero there regardless.

Probably, although in general I favour it being just that if the other classes are present in your character's universe, doing their class-specific stuff(1), only *your* character gets to do the provided non-class missions. The others get other non-class stories instead.

Yup, I also prefer doing it that way.

(1) It isn't automatically the case. A few things don't make sense if it is the case, notably the point that when Kaliyo shows up in Doc's companion story (actually physically present in the Knight's ship), she travels there *from*Hutta*, where she shouldn't be if the Agent's story was proceeding normally.

There was no mention of Kaliyo traveling to the Knight's ship from Hutta. Doc mentioned that he knew her when he worked there.

I view everything of my Imperial character stories, class and planet, as prequels to my Republic character stories. For example, the Empire conquering Corellia in Imperial Story leads up to the Republic returning and my Republic hero liberating the planet. It doesn't always mesh up well as the scripts go. Imperial Taris story blows up the Republic base you use in Republic Taris story, so it becomes a stretch to say Republic rebuilds it. The Voss planet stories are self-contained in their conclusion. Completing one would mean the other couldn't even take place. I let it go.

 

Imperial story as prequels to Republic stories works for me. I say prequels because I alternate sides, Republic counterpart first. No problem saying Republic stories are sequels to Imperial stories. Republic/Imperial Makeb are simultaneous. There's no satisfactory relationship with Ilum, Revan, Eternal Throne, Onslaught. They're alternate realities.

Rep Taris takes place before Imp Taris.

 

Rep Taris takes place before Imp Taris.

Not for me. Republic "wins" until Palpatine.

There's also the finishing quest to the Tatooine planetary storyline.

Also Alderaan,

Not for me. Republic "wins" until Palpatine.

Headcanons can't trump actual canon. If you read the Codex, or just pay attention to the fact Taris is visited in Act 1 for the Republic, and Act 2 for the Empire, it becomes extremely clear that that the Empire version takes place afterward.

At any rate, my views on the matter by planet. (It's been a while since I've played, so I may be forgetting a view things.

Taris/Balmorra: Obviously, as I stated earlier, Republic Taris is first, Imperial is second. Likewise, Imperial Balmorra is first, and Republic second.

Nar Shaddaa: I don't remember all the details of the planetary quest, but I think it could actually go either way.

Tatooine: The two sides largely take place at the exact same time, though obviously only one side can canonically confront the Imprisoned One. I think this story is a case where the canonical victor is simply whoever you're playing as at the time. I do have a slight preference for the Republic version due to the plot with Czerka. (Otherwise I find myself wondering where Gayem went.)

Alderaan: Same deal with Tatooine. For the most part, both take place at the same time with minimal contradiction, but your player character is the one to canonically confornt Bouris Ulgo.

Quesh: Okay, this is where things get confusing for me. The two stories are completely different but mutually exclusive, and unlike Tatooine and Alderaan, there are no cases of shared quests. As someone who likes to imagine all the questlines are canon to some degree, I find this planet the hardest to work in due to the fates of Moff Dracen and Broga. Wookieepedia seems to treat the Empire capturing Broga as the canon choice, with him escaping later, to justify this. Personally, I don't like the idea of a choice I made being rendered non-canon (the only exceptions are cases like on Alderaan and Tatooine, where the divergence is less the choice made and more the character present). I personally headcanon that Broga had the foresight to place a body double before the Imperials invaded. Alterniatively, this could be another case of the side you play as winning. (Though I find that hard to accept, as the stories are so different and opposed that this would mean the other side's version just plain DIDN'T HAPPEN, as opposed to other cases where it's still clear the quests your character can't get involved in still happened.)

Hoth: While still a little confusing, this is a little easier than Quesh, since the main points of contradiction are cases that can filed under whether the Republic or Empire gets there first.

Belsavis: Warden Graal and the Dread Masters' roles pretty much proves this to be another case where the Republic is first, Empire second. He becomes warden in the Republic story, and survives from beginning to end there. However, the Dread Master never come up. In the Imperial Story, Graal is already Warder, and can die when the Dread Masters are freed. The Dread Masters are shown to have been freed in later stories, so the only way both Republic and Imperial stories can be canon is if Republic happens first, Imperial second.

Voss: The two stories happen at the same time. The main grey areas are Jokull and the circumstances regarding the holographic meeting with the Three.

Corellia: Pretty obvious from the dialogue. The Empire questline is about the conquest of the planet. In the Republic storyline, bits of dialogue indicate the council already agreed to join the Empire, and the Republic is trying to liberate the planet.

Headcanons can't trump actual canon. If you read the Codex, or just pay attention to the fact Taris is visited in Act 1 for the Republic, and Act 2 for the Empire, it becomes extremely clear that that the Empire version takes place afterward.

 

Yes it can because the only person it affects is me, and I'm the only one who counts as far as my head canon is concerned.

Quesh: Okay, this is where things get confusing for me. The two stories are completely different but mutually exclusive, and unlike Tatooine and Alderaan, there are no cases of shared quests. As someone who likes to imagine all the questlines are canon to some degree, I find this planet the hardest to work in due to the fates of Moff Dracen and Broga. Wookieepedia seems to treat the Empire capturing Broga as the canon choice, with him escaping later, to justify this. Personally, I don't like the idea of a choice I made being rendered non-canon (the only exceptions are cases like on Alderaan and Tatooine, where the divergence is less the choice made and more the character present). I personally headcanon that Broga had the foresight to place a body double before the Imperials invaded. Alterniatively, this could be another case of the side you play as winning. (Though I find that hard to accept, as the stories are so different and opposed that this would mean the other side's version just plain DIDN'T HAPPEN, as opposed to other cases where it's still clear the quests your character can't get involved in still happened.)

Maybe Quesh is a case where the story only happens on one side? Whatever character you are playing just happens to arrive on Quesh and tip the balance of power for the quest to complete.

In the case that your imperial character arrives, Dracen becomes daring and uses the momentum created by the player to take out (or work with) the remains of the three families.

In the case that a republic character arrives, the Republic strikes back and eventually corners Dracen.

Dracen's goal on Quesh is to provoke war and his attempt to do so on pub side is to goad the player into killing him. There's also the Jedi and Sith characters that only appear in the opposing faction's story.

Yes it can because the only person it affects is me, and I'm the only one who counts as far as my head canon is concerned.

In that case, your headcanon exists in the "non-respectable" category. The only respectable headcanons work WITH canon, not against it.

In that case, your headcanon exists in the "non-respectable" category. The only respectable headcanons work WITH canon, not against it.

I don't need your approval. It's my game with my characters. If you can't stand it, that's your problem.

In that case, your headcanon exists in the "non-respectable" category. The only respectable headcanons work WITH canon, not against it.

In that case, your headcanon exists in the "non-respectable" category. The only respectable headcanons work WITH canon, not against it.

That's one honking big No True Scotsman(1) you have there.

(1) The more scholarly term is "appeal to purity".

I don't need your approval. It's my game with my characters. If you can't stand it, that's your problem.

That's one honking big No True Scotsman(1) you have there.

 

(1) The more scholarly term is "appeal to purity".

I'm just stating facts.

What Hadsil is engaging in is Fanon Discontinuity.

Look, you are allowed to do what you want to have fun, there are plenty of good fanfics out there that ignore canon.

But I would appreciate it if you stop calling it a "headcanon" (a term that basically means "what I think happened", and not "what I wish happened", as you seem to think.)

(Sorry if I'm acting snippy, but I've has a LOT of bad experiences with people who are unable to accept that their headcanon isn't actual canon, and give undeserved criticism to work creators who dare to debunk them.

Note that doesn't mean that work creators always do things right. And it doesn't mean a fanverse can't be better than a canonverse. I just think it would be more accurate to call them fanverses than headcanons.)

So I may or may not be looking into this a bit too much, but I was replaying the Republic Corellia story and I noticed something. At the start of the Story Arc, you have to rescue this Rep guy and a Selonian who were captured by the Imps. After you rescue them, the Selonian says that the Empire "smelled Selonian betrayal. Now they know we helped CorSec and the Republic. They attacked our homes."

The Selonians weren't serving the Empire during the Imp Story Arc, were they? Does this mean that canonically, one of the 8 Imp Class Characters who did the Imp Story spared the Selonians in exchange for them serving the Empire as opposed to telling Hesker and the Imperial Guard to kill them all?

So I may or may not be looking into this a bit too much, but I was replaying the Republic Corellia story and I noticed something. At the start of the Story Arc, you have to rescue this Rep guy and a Selonian who were captured by the Imps. After you rescue them, the Selonian says that the Empire "smelled Selonian betrayal. Now they know we helped CorSec and the Republic. They attacked our homes."

 

The Selonians weren't serving the Empire during the Imp Story Arc, were they? Does this mean that canonically, one of the 8 Imp Class Characters who did the Imp Story spared the Selonians in exchange for them serving the Empire as opposed to telling Hesker and the Imperial Guard to kill them all?

I always assumed that they were using the word "betrayed" in a more general sense. Remember, the Empire viewed Corellia as lawfully Imperial because the council had voted to join them. The Selonians, being citizens of Corellia, therefore were betrayers because they chose to fight the government.

But I could be wrong too.

I'm just stating facts.

 

What Hadsil is engaging in is Fanon Discontinuity.

 

Look, you are allowed to do what you want to have fun, there are plenty of good fanfics out there that ignore canon.

 

But I would appreciate it if you stop calling it a "headcanon" (a term that basically means "what I think happened", and not "what I wish happened", as you seem to think.)

 

(Sorry if I'm acting snippy, but I've has a LOT of bad experiences with people who are unable to accept that their headcanon isn't actual canon, and give undeserved criticism to work creators who dare to debunk them.

 

Note that doesn't mean that work creators always do things right. And it doesn't mean a fanverse can't be better than a canonverse. I just think it would be more accurate to call them fanverses than headcanons.)

No, you're stating your opinion.

I never said my head canon was official that's how Star Wars works. I only said how I resolve the planet arcs for me to make story sense for how I play. It only affects me, and I said so. Because I play Republic character first alternating (Jedi Knight, Sith Warrior, Jedi Consular, Sith Sorcerer, etc.), for the class stories Imperial arcs are prequels to Republic arcs. For me. Only me. I acknowledge it doesn't always work, since as stated Voss is self-contained. To complete the planet story means the other couldn't happen. I just accept the plot hole/paradox and move on.

You're bothered by that. That's your problem. I'm not bothered you're bothered. I'm bothered you insist I'm playing wrong having BadWrongFun.

I think the Quesh conflict was an oversight. They should really remove the alignment shift from the decision to spare or kill Broga. Ultimately, my headcanon is that the Imperial strike team wounded Broga but he actually survived and was captured and healed to serve the Empire. To escape, Broga contacted the Republic for assistance.

I think the only planets with conflicting stories are Tatooine, Alderaan, Hoth, and Voss. The other planets have different plotlines for both factions.

The Republic Taris arc takes place during the Empire Balmorra arc. The Republic Balmorra arc takes place during the Empire Taris arc. Taris initially appears a Republic victory but ends with Imperial success. Balmorra is the inverse with the Empire initially winning the day before the Republic liberates the planet.

Nar Shaddaa and Belsavis, to my memory, have completely different plots across the factions. And Corellia starts with the Empire capturing it before the Republic liberates it. 

So, the planetary arcs for Tatooine, Alderaan, Hoth, and Voss are a matter of player preference. I usually go with Republic victories on those planets, except maybe Hoth since the Empire plays a role in the Republic version.