Ouch!

Read for yourself.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/09/28/trent-oster-thinks-fans-negativity-and-ea-drove-muzyka-and-zeschuk-from-bioware/

That whole post is nothing but SWTOR bashing. If they got so depressed over the "failure" of the game that they quit then maybe they should have sucked it up and listened to the fans in the first place.

"After users continued to decline and SWTOR went almost entirely free to play, to most, including EA apparently, that was the final straw that indicated the title was indeed a failure. Some fans may still enjoy it, but their numbers are dwindling and they’re not nearly enough to make the game the hit it was supposed to be."

That made me LOL. SWTOR still has a great fan base, and still plenty of players. If they are basing it as a failure because it doesn't have anywhere near as many subs as WoW, than every MMO but WoW was a failure.

That whole post is nothing but SWTOR bashing. If they got so depressed over the "failure" of the game that they quit then maybe they should have sucked it up and listened to the fans in the first place.

 

"After users continued to decline and SWTOR went almost entirely free to play, to most, including EA apparently, that was the final straw that indicated the title was indeed a failure. Some fans may still enjoy it, but their numbers are dwindling and they’re not nearly enough to make the game the hit it was supposed to be."

 

That made me LOL. SWTOR still has a great fan base, and still plenty of players. If they are basing it as a failure because it doesn't have anywhere near as many subs as WoW, than every MMO but WoW was a failure.

Problem here is they openly hyped TOR as dethroning WoW. They set that expectation themselves long before the game launched. By doing so TOR couldn't become average or it would be considered fail.

Must I dig up the quotes for you or can you remember?

The guy makes some good points about TOR and not to mention that ME3 was a good game and if they had got the ending right there would have been nothing but praise for it.

But back to TOR his right the development cycle was far too long and by the time the game came out it was dated. But this is only the beginning of a development team that takes far too long to get anything done or properly communicate with its fans. People were asking about end game long before beta started and still asking about it.

Shipping with 2 ops, 3 warzones, 7 hard mode flashpoints, 2 planets with dailies on them and little else wasn't going to cut it with how the gear was divided up. Most players realised the quickest and easiest way to get high end gear was PvP as working through the Hard Modes to then repeat Ops on story then Hardmode quickly became boring. But despite fans saying what else do you have for end game we get told we will talk about it when its ready or we have story and full VO. But as far as story goes it was never carried through the choices had no impact on the world so if I say A B or C it doesn't matter so I say whichever one gets me companion effect or light or darkside points. At which point why am I even listening I dont care what gets said I will be running in their and killing those 10 flesh raiders and the jedi order will praise me despite my murderous darkside ways.

Ouch!

 

Read for yourself.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/09/28/trent-oster-thinks-fans-negativity-and-ea-drove-muzyka-and-zeschuk-from-bioware/

Bout time one of them spoke up and told the truth. The fans suck, bunch of whiny little school girls that could not be satisfied if they were paid to play. Here we have a fun and entertaining game that was thwarted every step of the way by a bunch of childish whiners that usually had no idea of what they were talking about. They caused to entire server issue by first bloating the game, and then by leaving because they were too impatient, two nit picky to even give the game a chance to develop and grow (usually not understanding that this was the norm for this type of game). That action alone derailed the game causing all resources to shift from game development to legacy shifting and server merges.

I've never witness such a group of whiners in my life, let alone a group so ill advised as to what they are complaining about. I can't blame those guys one bit for leaving. As far as I'm concerned, they and not the developers ruined this great game.

OK, so yet another article posted by Paul Tassi, an unreliable and inaccurate contributor to Forbes at best. A known SWTOR hater at minimum, and an outright liar more than often.

If people like the OP feel the need to continue to link unreliable garbage, then I truly hope the mods on these forums continue to delete the posts. There is no need for that here. You want to hate and bash, go somewhere else.

But back to TOR his right the development cycle was far too long and by the time the game came out it was dated. But this is only the beginning of a development team that takes far too long to get anything done or properly communicate with its fans. People were asking about end game long before beta started and still asking about it.

You complain about it taking too long to develop, others complain that they didn't take long enough. Its a no win for them. People are just whiners. The game developed just fine. It launched just fine. Half the problem is that people have not clue one about the fact that MMORPGs Always launch as a shell then develop over 5 to 10 years.

End game is never fully loaded at a launch. It is never fully loaded ever. It developes over time. I can point to the same type of ill informed posts when Wow launched. The same whiners complaining about "end game". The difference is that there were enough MMORPG players in wow so when this group mentality hit there were sufficient numbers of real players to maintain the game.

They did not take too long to do anything. The fans side tracked their plans and put the game into a tailspin. They have been playing catch up ever since.

No, what happened here is that the majority of good, informed fans are still over at games like wow and Rift. Some of us came here, but mostly we got the chaff, the crybaby fan that is never satisfied, always complains, shoots his mouth off about something he knows nothing about. In short, we got the fringe demographic that is typically dismissed as floaters and chronic complainers.

Problem here is they openly hyped TOR as dethroning WoW. They set that expectation themselves long before the game launched. By doing so TOR couldn't become average or it would be considered fail.

 

Must I dig up the quotes for you or can you remember?

Can you post a link to where a developer stated, with affirmation, that this game would dethrone Wow? I want to see it because I'm tending to think that this is another load of misinformation used to disparage the game when it was the fan base that over hyped it. I read up on the game, played the game, got exactly what I expected because I read what the developers wrote.

From the article:

To have the fans creating petitions against the work is pretty hard to take

What petitions? I didn't hear about this.

Can you post a link to where a developer stated, with affirmation, that this game would dethrone Wow? I want to see it because I'm tending to think that this is another load of misinformation used to disparage the game when it was the fan base that over hyped it. I read up on the game, played the game, got exactly what I expected because I read what the developers wrote.

he can't because they never did... they repeatedly stated they weren't looking to beat WoW or "re-invent the MMO wheel"... it was only foolish fans that made those claims

I think they left because of how things were not turning out the way wanted to.

Also when they sold BW to EA, there was a lot of money involved. Just as there was a lot of money involved with TOR.

I am wondering at this point how the money was used. Does swtor feel like a multi million dollar project? I think the devs cashed in on the project, and did not spend enough on the game,or somehow did not spend it 'properly' on the game due to bad management which had a negative effect in their development.

Swtor is well done in certain regards, but the budget is supposedly 150 million dollars and maybe even more.

GW2 was around 75 million dollars, correct? It also has voice over in 4 languages, but imo, that game is lacking, but has half the budget but... great game optimization, large scale pvp, and npc movement, and chat bubbles.

At what point does another 75 million into a game justify VO for every NPC, "choice" and more VO, and cinematics at the expense of developing an MMO with what it should have? Shouldn't a few million have been enough just for VO, and therefore with over a hundred million left to have an MMO engine to make it a large scale MMO.

Now apparently they doing philanthropy with starting new entrepreneurship that are socially rewarding or something. And giving back. Sounds nice, but giving back would also be doing swtor some justice. What happened?

Bout time one of them spoke up and told the truth. The fans suck, bunch of whiny little school girls that could not be satisfied if they were paid to play. Here we have a fun and entertaining game that was thwarted every step of the way by a bunch of childish whiners that usually had no idea of what they were talking about. They caused to entire server issue by first bloating the game, and then by leaving because they were too impatient, two nit picky to even give the game a chance to develop and grow (usually not understanding that this was the norm for this type of game). That action alone derailed the game causing all resources to shift from game development to legacy shifting and server merges.

 

I've never witness such a group of whiners in my life, let alone a group so ill advised as to what they are complaining about. I can't blame those guys one bit for leaving. As far as I'm concerned, they and not the developers ruined this great game.

What a FORMER employee of Bioware THINKS. Two important words in the very opening. I didn't know Trent could read minds. But he also said how much EA played in it too.

QQ'ing about the fans is getting old.

From the article:

To have the fans creating petitions against the work is pretty hard to take

 

What petitions? I didn't hear about this.

ME3 not TOR are the only ones I know of. Even DA2 I never heard of any either.

Edit: Actually there was one for DA2 I remember now but it wasn't really a bad petition so slipped my mind. There was one for the devs to make a Toolset for DA2 like they did DAO. People wanting a toolset actually is a "love it but we miss this" type petition.

What a FORMER employee of Bioware THINKS. Two important words in the very opening. I didn't know Trent could read minds. But he also said how much EA played in it too.

 

QQ'ing about the fans is getting old.

Im not QQing about the fans there skippy. I'm stating the obvious, setting the record straight, bringing some truth to the discussion. If your car breaks down and you say your car broke down are you QQing?

If you want to contend my points, then please do, but lease stop the nonsense and "kewel game-pro jargon". That is what is getting old.

What a FORMER employee of Bioware THINKS. Two important words in the very opening. I didn't know Trent could read minds. But he also said how much EA played in it too.

 

QQ'ing about the fans is getting old.

Its not even a valid argument, unless it was something very specific about the behavior that caused people to leave.

If they left becuase they were bored, then how is it the fault of the consumer?

And if its normal for consumers to leave MMOs after a certain amount of time, shouldn't BW, or swtor devs, have content every lets say 6 months to bring people back.

No, the problem is in the foundation of the swtor game itself. There is no open world pvp, and no large scale pvp, limited end game, and really no repeatability. Claiming alt playing is the end game is an indication of something gone wrong when also the reason to play alts reflects on the entire game which is static worlds with the illusion of choice (compared to single player games - and why people play alts there), or the reason to play alts in an MMO is to have different content but the problem is they reach the same end game, but also play the same side quests. So by design swtor does not have the content to keep players, or enough of them, to play alts or end game.

For swtor devs to expand on the content it requires too much work on their part considering VO as the culprit. They have almost reached a year since release and still not more story content. So thats the problem with swtor, and there is not enough replay-ability for one character to keep players playing in what they would feel justifies that.

At this point the justification is a variety of things;

=Open world pvp

=Complex crafting

=3d space combat

=Weird aliens for NPC and character creation

=Pazaak, Swoop racing and mini games

=swimming

=Day/Night cycle

=Not restricted to the fleet as a central hub for operations

=chat bubbles

=more end game

=choice in side quests, or story ( but choice in side quests would make side questing more uniqye and enjoyable)

=Legacy system when the game was still new/just released since alt playing was actually a big part of the end game for swtor

=UI customization at release

=LFG tool at release

=Server consilidation that was better timed

=Large BG for WZ

=In depth character creation

= edit: and some of these justifications imply game engine optimization so they can include it

This is what they should have included at release. Then the retention would have been a lot better in swtor while they wait for more story, and play alts/end game in a more alive and sci-fi galaxy. Is it the fault of the players or the devs? And lfg tool is probably the only one in the list that does not matter as much but it would make a difference if the game was designed to allow people to explore and not be stuck in the fleet then a lfg tool would be more important. The same as UI customization and allowing 3rd party programs, then it wont be as necessary for the devs. to develop.

Can you post a link to where a developer stated, with affirmation, that this game would dethrone Wow? I want to see it because I'm tending to think that this is another load of misinformation used to disparage the game when it was the fan base that over hyped it. I read up on the game, played the game, got exactly what I expected because I read what the developers wrote.

I don't think it exists. I was here prior to launch and no developer stated this. I can remember seeing individuals on the forums thinking it would but never a developer. What an individual states on a forum is not the same as a developer.

And I care what he says why? It is easy to keep passing the blame from one extreme to the other. No one wants to take responsbility for their actions whether it is the players or it is the people at Bioware. Everyone seems to want to blame someone else for everything. Did bioware do everything right regarding the game , No. Do players always act correctly No.

I got severely harassed by other players when I played swtor, and that did not make me not like swtor. It made me realize that there some people not worth grouping with. Hence the ignore option.

They should have released Makeb 6 months after relase, and they would be doing better now. Even with the many other reasons other people left, havign more VO content, which is their best part of thier game, would be a true indication of the state of the game.

Also releasing more OPs and more WZ is good, with other content like legacy in 1.2, UI cusomtization etc, but without the content that makes the game better for thier consumers, then they are only hurting themselves. So its not easy since if they only released Makeb without other content, then it would have also hurt their game, so its as if they are forced to catch up and their development is not focused properly due to the foundation of the game not allowing them to do so since release.

Mr muzyka does not seem to agree with that in twitter.

Yeah finds it pretty damn laughable and Oster more than likely sunk his career with that little tirade, anyone who doubts that might want to chat up David Allen or Derrick Smart.

he can't because they never did... they repeatedly stated they weren't looking to beat WoW or "re-invent the MMO wheel"... it was only foolish fans that made those claims

Careful what you ask for. Here's one, shall I find another one?

"BioWare Austin, the developer behind the upcoming Star Wars: The Old Republic, may have just lost a general manager, but work on the first-ever MMO from BioWare continues and Electronic Arts couldn't be more bullish about the title's prospects. While speaking at the Goldman Sachs conference, EA CEO John Riccitiello briefly touched upon the difference between what his company and BioWare are doing in the MMO market and what Blizzard has done with WoW to this point.

Ultimately, Riccitiello sees the Star Wars universe as a big differentiator and he envisions BioWare's MMO taking a healthy part of the MMO market away from WoW. That's a tall order, even for a developer as hugely talented as BioWare is.

"We're going right at it. We want share, we want leadership position here," affirmed Riccitiello. "I'm not expecting to sort of knock them over, but ... we're gonna get a big chunk of [their market]."

Riccitiello also commented that the acting and dialogue in The Old Republic will make WoW look like a "silent movie" by comparison.

"In a way, theirs is a silent movie and ours is the first talkie," he said. "By and large, theirs is not a voiced MMO. Ours is a fully voiced MMO in multiple languages."

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/wow-to-lose-big-chunk-of-market-share-to-star-wars-old-republic-says-ea/

Fools will complain until the games gone. Then there will be no star wars MMORPG to play. All under the umbrella of constructive critacism like its their right and have no responsibility for the effect it has on the real people who are trying their best to make something special.

propper constructive critacism has its place. The same points being repeated over and over doesn't. Vindictive people with no grasp of the real world living in mums basement expecting a perfect game from the off had a deep impact on the confidence of the developers. I hope these same people realise their un realistic fantasy demands have destroyed one of the best dev companies going, and driven people away from this game, which im realy enjoying, and hope it has a long life.

Fools will complain until the games gone. Then there will be no star wars MMORPG to play. All under the umbrella of constructive critacism like its their right and have no responsibility for the effect it has on the real people who are trying their best to make something special.

 

propper constructive critacism has its place. The same points being repeated over and over doesn't. Vindictive people with no grasp of the real world living in mums basement expecting a perfect game from the off had a deep impact on the confidence of the developers. I hope these same people realise their un realistic fantasy demands have destroyed one of the best dev companies going, and driven people away from this game, which im realy enjoying, and hope it has a long life.

Pretty much, and the hilarious thing is if Bioware announced that they were sunsetting SWTOR tomorrow the same smacktards would be signing petitions and staging in game sit ins because of the drama factor and that is what they are all about drama, they could care two cents about the actual game good or bad.

Careful what you ask for. Here's one, shall I find another one?

 

 

 

"BioWare Austin, the developer behind the upcoming Star Wars: The Old Republic, may have just lost a general manager, but work on the first-ever MMO from BioWare continues and Electronic Arts couldn't be more bullish about the title's prospects. While speaking at the Goldman Sachs conference, EA CEO John Riccitiello briefly touched upon the difference between what his company and BioWare are doing in the MMO market and what Blizzard has done with WoW to this point.

 

Ultimately, Riccitiello sees the Star Wars universe as a big differentiator and he envisions BioWare's MMO taking a healthy part of the MMO market away from WoW. That's a tall order, even for a developer as hugely talented as BioWare is.

 

"We're going right at it. We want share, we want leadership position here," affirmed Riccitiello. "I'm not expecting to sort of knock them over, but ... we're gonna get a big chunk of [their market]."

 

Riccitiello also commented that the acting and dialogue in The Old Republic will make WoW look like a "silent movie" by comparison.

 

"In a way, theirs is a silent movie and ours is the first talkie," he said. "By and large, theirs is not a voiced MMO. Ours is a fully voiced MMO in multiple languages."

 

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/wow-to-lose-big-chunk-of-market-share-to-star-wars-old-republic-says-ea/

Good job ^^...I remember them posting stuff like this all over the place.

yeah give them more before they say you fabricated it...XD

Fools will complain until the games gone. Then there will be no star wars MMORPG to play. All under the umbrella of constructive critacism like its their right and have no responsibility for the effect it has on the real people who are trying their best to make something special.

 

propper constructive critacism has its place. The same points being repeated over and over doesn't. Vindictive people with no grasp of the real world living in mums basement expecting a perfect game from the off had a deep impact on the confidence of the developers. I hope these same people realise their un realistic fantasy demands have destroyed one of the best dev companies going, and driven people away from this game, which im realy enjoying, and hope it has a long life.

If the defenders of the game no longer have any defense, and now have to resort to blaming the players, the I would suggest taking it up with Bioware for listening to such a small percentage of their playerbase that actually complain on the forums.

After that, I would take a look in the mirror and wonder "If Bioware was so willing to listen to such a small percentage of players...then why didn't they listen to us, the supporters?"