cbauga Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I want some honest feedback. Im full war hero with 50% power and 50% willpower augs. My range is between 225-275k dmg. Occasionally ill break into the 300k range. It mostly depends on how good my group is. Because of my low DPS i cant find a steady group to run with (forget about Ranked) so I pug it 80% of the time. Is this a L2P situation or do the other Deception assassins suffer with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelliMelon Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Deception is fairly bad for pvp. It's sure fun though. Bad for sustained damage and you're too squishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldori Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 No, Deception is just underpowered as of now. I love to play it and that's what I play as my main, but I've found its really hard to be consistent with an Assassin, they have good games and bad games, most of the time that's based off of your teams healers really. If they buffed up deception it would return to being a great PVP class. Anyways, it's not just you, all Deception Assassins are hurting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbauga Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 No, Deception is just underpowered as of now. I love to play it and that's what I play as my main, but I've found its really hard to be consistent with an Assassin, they have good games and bad games, most of the time that's based off of your teams healers really. If they buffed up deception it would return to being a great PVP class. Anyways, it's not just you, all Deception Assassins are hurting I have people in my guild (*cough* pyrotech *cough*) that have only battlemaster gear and out damage me by 100k each game. Some Sorcs do too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbauga Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Deception is fairly bad for pvp. It's sure fun though. Bad for sustained damage and you're too squishy. So what do you think the fix would be? Give us a defensive boost? Or add more dmg to our attacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarg Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) It's not very useful to try to put it into a static number like that because scoreboard numbers vary so much from warzone to warzone depending on how things happen and what everyone is doing. But, essentially the answer to what I think the intent of your question is yes, some can. Deception Assassins are capable of ~80% of the overall damage that a Pyro PT can do in WZ's. Edited July 13, 2012 by Boarg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) So what do you think the fix would be? Give us a defensive boost? Or add more dmg to our attacks? I would rather they keep it squishy. Instead, lower the cooldown on stealth. This will make them survive more and give them more force regeneration because of the "increased force regeneration after stealth" talent. It irks me that developers have so many metrics and don't notice an AC is incredibly underplayed. As an aside, the quick burst is way more useful than AoE damage. Nothing against AoE damage, it is useful, but single target is better. The only way you will ever put up big numbers is with a healer who concentrates on you. Rare. Edited July 13, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbauga Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 It's not very useful to try to put it into a static number like that because scoreboard numbers vary so much from warzone to warzone depending on how things happen and what everyone is doing. But, essentially the answer to what I think the intent of your question is yes, some can. Deception Assassins are capable of ~80% of the overall damage that a Pyro PT can do in WZ's. Id sure like to know what they are doing then. After 1.3 ive never had three games of 300k dmg in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShatteredVision Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Deception is fairly bad for pvp. It's sure fun though. Bad for sustained damage and you're too squishy. Says someone who isn't good at it. Deception, as mentioned in the Q&A this week, is more than capable in the hands of a good player. I've been deception/infiltration since prelaunch. Have NEVER had a problem. L2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I think Mr. Peckenpaugh hit the nail on the head when it comes to players in general with this statement because it just doesn't apply to those who play Deception, but to all classes: Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer): First, as to whether or not they're operating close to what we envision, the answer is "depends who the operator is." From the videos, logs, and anecdotes players provide us, it's really very much the answer for all specs - some people "get it" and play it to its potential, and some people don't. Frequently, the ones who "don't" are hitting brick walls because their expectations for what a spec should be like or should be capable of are different than what the spec is designed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElJako Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 There was a Deception Assassin on my old server that consistently brkoe 400k-500k damage. Top damage in almost every game he played. He still does that on The Fatman, whenever he plays. He broke 300k damage regular in sub 50 pvp with the same class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterone Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So what do you think the fix would be? Give us a defensive boost? Or add more dmg to our attacks? Make the 30% armor from the talent a passive boost to every deception sin. Increase the force regen rate. The damage is really fine. If you gave more damage to deception sins people would cry because the damage would be like pre pre pre nerf operatives. And if you gave them a larger force pool, it would only allow for larger burst setups. Faster regen rate would allow for dps sustainability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I think Mr. Peckenpaugh hit the nail on the head when it comes to players in general with this statement because it just doesn't apply to those who play Deception, but to all classes: Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer): First, as to whether or not they're operating close to what we envision, the answer is "depends who the operator is." From the videos, logs, and anecdotes players provide us, it's really very much the answer for all specs - some people "get it" and play it to its potential, and some people don't. Frequently, the ones who "don't" are hitting brick walls because their expectations for what a spec should be like or should be capable of are different than what the spec is designed for. If I had enough room in my sig, this would be it. Where'd you get that quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetou Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 We have 2 very good Infiltration Shadows who regularly break 400k and I've seen them go as high as 640k. Well, we have 1 now as we persuaded the other to swap to Kinetic and he still regularly breaks 400k while being much more useful. It is a tricky spec to use and requires a good team to distract the enemy and not let you get pounced but it has a lot of potential if played well... it just lacks the utility and survivability of Kinetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 If I had enough room in my sig, this would be it. Where'd you get that quote? Lol. I tried to do that also. Got it from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 If I had enough room in my sig, this would be it. Where'd you get that quote? Its in the weekly Q&A, you should read the whole thing it just gets better from there. He acually says "facetank" in the thread, so awesome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Its in the weekly Q&A, you should read the whole thing it just gets better from there. He acually says "facetank" in the thread, so awesome!! Hehe. Yeah. That was "Post of the Year" material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gidoru Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) I want some honest feedback. Im full war hero with 50% power and 50% willpower augs. My range is between 225-275k dmg. Occasionally ill break into the 300k range. It mostly depends on how good my group is. Because of my low DPS i cant find a steady group to run with (forget about Ranked) so I pug it 80% of the time. Is this a L2P situation or do the other Deception assassins suffer with me? When i respec Deception for fun every once in a while i usually get around 300-350k damage. What is your crit chance if i may ask? Because with those augments is seems to me you cant possibly have over 31-32% crit. Deception is capable of some pretty amazing burst when you crit, but at the same time when you arent critting it seems like your damage is awful. If you are dead set on Deception i would recommend switching out some augments with crit, or otherwise try remodding to add more crit. Also Stalker gear is pretty low on Surge, if you havent remodded already for more surge id recommend doing so. Overall however the spec is a little lacking. Survivability is quite low. Edited July 13, 2012 by Gidoru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbauga Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 When i respec Deception for fun every once in a while i usually get around 300-350k damage. What is your crit chance if i may ask? Because with those augments is seems to me you cant possibly have over 31-32% crit. Deception is capable of some pretty amazing burst when you crit, but at the same time when you arent critting it seems like your damage is awful. If you are dead set on Deception i would recommend switching out some augments with crit, or otherwise try remodding to add more crit. Also Stalker gear is pretty low on Surge, if you havent remodded already for more surge id recommend doing so. Overall however the spec is a little lacking. Survivability is quite low. I have 2 war hero relics for power and 2 for crit surge. I have 11 crit mods, 11 power mods and 5 resolve mods, as you can tell ive been trying everything to get my numbers up. What I have noticed is that if I am in a group with people about the same valor rank as myself, 82, i can get into the 300k range. If I am the top valor ranked player I usually do poorly because I dont stay alive that long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbauga Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 I did not see the weekly QA before I posted this topic...the below Dev comment says a a lot about my choice in class. I guess I should have went Marauder... "First, as to whether or not they're operating close to what we envision, the answer is "depends who the operator is." From the videos, logs, and anecdotes players provide us, it's really very much the answer for all specs - some people "get it" and play it to its potential, and some people don't. Frequently, the ones who "don't" are hitting brick walls because their expectations for what a spec should be like or should be capable of are different than what the spec is designed for. In the case of Deception Assassins, we see and hear about a lot of players expecting to go toe-to-toe with tough enemies. They expect that since they're a melee spec, they should have the survivability they need to withstand the frontlines. That's true for some melee specs, but that's not what Deception Assassins were designed for. Deception should epitomize "hit-and-run" and "lone wolf" gameplay. Obviously that's less the case in Operations boss encounters, but if this is a question of sustained DPS, the short answer is that they hit within the same 5% "grace window" targeted by every DPS spec in the game. In solo and PvP environments, Deception is meant to be a high burst, high mobility, shutdown spec. When played properly, they provide some of the highest burst and highest pressure in the game. However, Deception is not a great partner. He can't take hits, his shutdown requires that he set the pace of the fight, and his escapes leave allies open and vulnerable to counterattacks. I say that, but I've seen players dash my expectations and turn Deception into a spectacular teammate. Unfortunately, I've seen many more players try to facetank and fail. Assassins have a great team support role - Darkness; they also have a great well-rounded, high utility role - Madness. We left Deception to take the opportunity to do something fun and very different, but that comes with the risk of missing player expectation. If you like Deception and you want to pull it off, my suggestion is that you pick your fights and plan ahead, but I'd also warn that Deception is a spec of extremes - I would not describe it as "well-rounded." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gidoru Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) I have 2 war hero relics for power and 2 for crit surge. I have 11 crit mods, 11 power mods and 5 resolve mods, as you can tell ive been trying everything to get my numbers up. What I have noticed is that if I am in a group with people about the same valor rank as myself, 82, i can get into the 300k range. If I am the top valor ranked player I usually do poorly because I dont stay alive that long... I think part of the problem is that Deception as i mentioned is really a burst spec and doesnt really seem capable of high sustained damage. Coupled with the fact you die quite frequently, your damage isnt going to be amazing. Your burst can be extremely good if you chain crit your 3 big attacks. You can do upwards of 12k in 3 hits and kill someone extremely quickly. If you've tried stacking crit and it hasnt worked out, i guess just try Darkness in DPS gear. Ive easily hit 600-700k with that spec pre 1.3 in BM gear. If not try Madness out. Other than that your only option is to reroll i guess. Edited July 13, 2012 by Gidoru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamikazeNaruto Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I know a Deception Assassin on my server who averages between 400-500k damage. Thing is, I can also do this as a Darkness Assassin, while putting out 150-300k protection a game, so what exactly is the purpose of being a Deception Assassin then? What do they bring to the table that is better than a Darkness Assassin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnAntilles Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I know a Deception Assassin on my server who averages between 400-500k damage. Thing is, I can also do this as a Darkness Assassin, while putting out 150-300k protection a game, so what exactly is the purpose of being a Deception Assassin then? What do they bring to the table that is better than a Darkness Assassin? The Deception Assassin is doing the same dmg in the same overall period of time, sure, but the actual big hits occur much more frequently and from larger base attacks. Darkness does constant, good dps, where as Deception does hardcore spike dps. I personally love my Deception Assassin, mainly for his ability to completely shut down healers with Low Slash, Jolt and Overload and getting 3, 3k+ Maul hits in a row. Deception has always been about picking your targets and making sure key ones die quickly without a chance to recover, not blindly wading in for Energize procs and soaking damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gidoru Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 The Deception Assassin is doing the same dmg in the same overall period of time, sure, but the actual big hits occur much more frequently and from larger base attacks. Darkness does constant, good dps, where as Deception does hardcore spike dps. I personally love my Deception Assassin, mainly for his ability to completely shut down healers with Low Slash, Jolt and Overload and getting 3, 3k+ Maul hits in a row. Deception has always been about picking your targets and making sure key ones die quickly without a chance to recover, not blindly wading in for Energize procs and soaking damage. 1. Darkness isnt necessarily about sustained DPS. The spec can have pretty good burst with Energize procs +Recklessness although granted its not as high as Deceptions potential burst. 2. 3k Mauls are extremely low... are you using recruit gear lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajPl Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I have people in my guild (*cough* pyrotech *cough*) that have only battlemaster gear and out damage me by 100k each game. Some Sorcs do too. I did 300k more damage than the second guy in the civil war. I'm OP nerf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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