If G0-T0 could effect worlds directly he would not have needed the Exile to his work for him.

 

Again you under rate Zann and his forces while making G0-T0 out to be some sort of god. Zann does not make many, if any, mistakes and G0-T0 is not as clever as you think, squid face hide his planes from him extremely well, not to mention G0-T0 gets taken out by the remote. Mr Fenn, he has a name you raciest, is far clever then you give him credit, he would scrap any HKs that come after him, they didn't do too well against force sensitives, not to mention he is close to 4'000 years old, he was alive during the Great Sith War, you don't live that long in the underworld with out great skill. He also EXTREMELY loyal to Tyber so your beleif that he would turn is laughable.

You need to do a little more reading up on G0-T0. His operations on Nar Shaddaa influenced several worlds throughout the Republic, keeping them from going bankrupt. Through his guiding hand the Republic was able to stay strong and not crumble in on itself. So yes, he can influence worlds. He just doesn't do it guns blazing like Zann.

Squid-face gets killed by the Ubese assassins, who turn against him once hired by G0-T0 because he finds out his plans. So no, he did not hide his plans well.

G0-T0 does NOT get taken out by the remote. Again, read more up on G0-T0. In cut content from KOTOR 2, G0-T0 defeats HK-47 if the Exile is darksided. Yeah, defeats HK-47. However, if the Exile is light sided,HK-47 brings along two HK-50s, and all three combined finally manage to kill him. So no, he was not killed by the remote.

You're wrong again. The HK-50s did not do well against the Exile because they wanted her alive. To kill Urai, all they have to do is snipe his head off. HK-47 killed hundreds of force users, and these HKs are upgrades to him.

I never suggested Urai would join G0-T0.... However, if you want another reason why Hanhaar would stay with G0-T0, the beast would probably want to test his skills against Urai. From what I can tell, Hanharr doesn't care about credits, just bloodshed, and he has more opportunity for bloodshed fighting for G0-T0 than Zann.

Monsier! Mesemi! Le dastardly Warren Stride has struck again! Sacre bleu! Nice analogy. May I just say though I didn't mean to say 'caught off guard' but led off the trail. The attack on the Exchange base was designed to distract G0-T0 from Zann's true intentions. However you've provided substantial evidence that G0-T0 has a lot of control and influence concerning the black market, as the Exchange specialises in dealing with black market technology, just like Zann.

I also notice people are saying that Tyber Zann is immune because he can move on a galactic stage while G0-T0 cannot. But this is not true, if anything Zann is racing against the clock. From the word 'go' (yes that is how the Kaggath starts ) G0-T0 is having Zann hunted down by a legion of HK-50 assassin droids, and mercenaries. If Zann does nothing, G0-T0 will simply assassinate him. But I'm going to put Warren Stride's and others arguments for G0-T0 in a scenario, similar to my previous one.

While the whole gang war is erupting on Nar Shaddaa (I do believe Zann is smart enough to enact one without angering the locals) Tyber Zann anonymously purchases a crystal gravfield trap off the black market. However G0-T0 being an art connoisseur, gets word of the deal. However Zann covers his tracks well and G0-T0 cannot come up with any hard evidence that Zann is the buyer. But he puts two and two together and suspects as much. So G0-T0 begins lulling Zann into a false sense of security, letting him gain the advantage on Nar Shaddaa and making it look like he has his hands full. He also purchases a super fast stealth ship off the black market, and makes sure Zann knows about it, which he keeps docked on the Visionary. Meanwhile G0-T0 instructs Hanharr and a few HKs to capture Urai Fen who is no doubt leading the charge, but make it look like they killed him. Zann quickly gets word of this and becomes enraged, accelerating his plans.

But not completely foolhardy however he takes only the Merciless, under stealth, to Nar Shaddaa so G0-T0 doesn't see the attack coming, but G0-T0 knows Zann is on his way, so isn't caught off guard. Upon arriving Zann sends out a message on a holofrequency heard by all above the moon, including G0-T0, that the Visionary is his and no one is too. interfere. He wants revenge. However before he can ionize the Visionary and decloak it, G0-T0 replies saying he has Urai Fenn captive and if Zann fires Fenn will die. While Zann is considering whether it is a bluff etc. G0-T0 launches his super fast stealth ship out of the Visionary in a decoy attempt to escape. But Zann expected as much (he knows about the ship) and fires on it, destroying it (or maybe it gets away, irrelevant, all the matters is he thinks G0-T0 is no longer on board). He then ionizes the ship and it decloaks, but nobody fires on it because of Zann's warning, and the fact he has a massive capital ship to back it up. He sends some people, not going himself because he is wary of traps left by G0-T0, to rescue Fenn, the destroys the Visionary. But G0-T0 is still on board and smuggles his way onto the Merciless. Then he waits for the opportune moment and kills Tyber Zann.

G0-T0 then takes control of the Merciless, killing everyone on board, and cloaks it in the exact same place the Visionary used to me. He now reassumes control of the Exchange but instead of a cloaked yacht his got a nice big cloaked capital ship, and as an added bonus everyone thinks his dead.

This is just one of the ways G0-T0 can outsmart Zann. What is really important though it that he can, not how he does it. This is how I see G0-T0 winning if he did.

NOTE: It is a fallacy that Urai Fen is Force sensitive. As he used his stun ability around ysalamiri.

NOTE: It is a fallacy that Urai Fen is Force sensitive. As he used his stun ability around ysalamiri.

I'm glad you liked the analogy and it convinced you.

I support your scenario, it seems like a likely possibility. I'm still pushing for the fact that G0-T0 assassins have been underestimated and they will probably kill Zann before any of that even happens though.

One thing about the NOTE: as much as I would like it to be, that's not actually true. Urai is force sensitive. In some of the first dialogue you hear between Zann and Urai, Zann jokes and teases with Urai by asking if the hawk-man joined the Jedi while Zann was gone. Also, I'm almost sure that Urai is a member of one of those species where everybody is force sensitive.

I'm glad you liked the analogy and it convinced you.

 

I support your scenario, it seems like a likely possibility. I'm still pushing for the fact that G0-T0 assassins have been underestimated and they will probably kill Zann before any of that even happens though.

 

One thing about the NOTE: as much as I would like it to be, that's not actually true. Urai is force sensitive. In some of the first dialogue you hear between Zann and Urai, Zann jokes and teases with Urai by asking if the hawk-man joined the Jedi while Zann was gone. Also, I'm almost sure that Urai is a member of one of those species where everybody is force sensitive.

Query: How is it that HK-47 is stronger that HK-50 and HK-51, despite technically being an inferior unit?

But if G0-T0 doesn't leave then how can he destory Tyber's power base?

 

Tyber can (and does) project power on a galactic stage. The war is all over the galaxy if G0-T0 doesn't leave Nar Shaddaa then Tyber wins by default.

 

Hanharr won't be bribed? Is loyal to the Exchange? What game where you playing? He (if you are dark) comes to YOU with a plan to find G0-T0 and kill for the Hutt. So yeah, he is not as loyal as Urai.

G0-T0 doesn't need to leave Nar Shaddaa. But his forces (aka HKs, Ubese bounty hunters, Gand, Exchange, Zhug Brothers) will move across the galaxy to hurt Zanns powerbase. Also remember that in order to win G0-T0 just has to kill Zann. G0-T0 is all about endgame.

There's no winning by default. Traya stayed on Malachor and she won. Somehow. Anyways, staying in one place does not make you lose by default. In this case, it'll make G0-T0 win.

What game were -you- playing? You don't bribe Hanharr, he comes with you because he wants bloodshed. He doesn't care about credits, just battle. And siding with G0-T0 will get him many more people to kill than siding with Zann. There's no reason for him to defect.

Query: How is it that HK-47 is stronger that HK-50 and HK-51, despite technically being an inferior unit?

Something, something, Revan built him thus he is superior to every other advanced HK model...something, something. When there is next to no information on what HK-47 can actually do abilities wise(and what is stated just seems really genaric), the only thing he has over the other HK units in detail is his personality. But then the other HK units, don't really have any detail to them either so its really a tie.

Oh really? Well Wookieepedia says otherwise but whatever. And yes chances are G0-T0s assassins might get to him before any of that actually happens. But Tyber Zann is going to keep himself well defended at all times, and I don't think the Zhug brothers or the Gand nest or any other bounty hunter will be up the task of killing him. Not even the HK-50s (they were defeated by T3 remember ) If anything it would take time and planning, which G0-T0 doesn't have a lot of.

 

Query: How is it that HK-47 is stronger that HK-50 and HK-51, despite technically being an inferior unit?

I'm not -sure- about the Urai thing. But I think people are reading a little too far into it when they say that Urai isn't force sensitive because he used a force power around ysalamiri. It's called a mistake in a video game.

Ok, T3 is just a boss. He had the best upgrades money could buy and was equipped with tons of special tricks. He was Revan's droid, after all. Zann doesnt have armor like T3. he has a jacket and an exposed head. And that fight was always hard for me. I just had to keep using my flamethrower over and over.

It didn't take time and planning to find the Exile multiple times. And she was traveling in one insignificant ship, not a fleet. I bet they could do it, that's what they're hired to do.

Confused Answer: I have no idea. But it's making people underestimate the HK-50s, which is annoying.

I suppose HK-47 has just been heavily upgraded by Revan and Meetra over the years. He managed to go toe-to-toe with the Sith Empire's best so he must be very powerful. Same goes for T3-M4.

And IMO G0-T0s yacht is very similar to Traya's fortress on Malachor V - nigh impenetrable. If G0-T0 survives this round he will become a real contender, for who but a crime lord can get hold of a crystal gravfield trap, and play G0-T0's game? (looks to Traya )

I suppose HK-47 has just been heavily upgraded by Revan and Meetra over the years. He managed to go toe-to-toe with the Sith Empire's best so he must be very powerful. Same goes for T3-M4.

 

And IMO G0-T0s yacht is very similar to Traya's fortress on Malachor V - nigh impenetrable. If G0-T0 survives this round he will become a real contender, for who but a crime lord can get hold of a crystal gravfield trap, and play G0-T0's game? (looks to Traya )

If I might make a suggestion for a tri-battle:

Traya vs. G0-T0 vs. Xizor

That would be cool.

If I might make a suggestion for a tri-battle:

 

Traya vs. G0-T0 vs. Xizor

 

That would be cool.

Just thinking aloud here but my opinion of who is going to emerge the victor is shifting. I think the outcome would be much the same if the Kaggath became a chess tournament, guile and deception are just as important and strength and size, if not more important... but we shall see.

I'm afraid I don't decide who features in the tri-battles, that's decided by whoever wins the brackets. However methinks the final could easily turn out to be between Traya and G0-T0, which would be a very interesting battle indeed. But that depends if either of them make it to the semi-finals, and if they play there cards right.

 

Just thinking aloud here but my opinion of who is going to emerge the victor is shifting. I think the outcome would be much the same if the Kaggath became a chess tournament, guile and deception are just as important and strength and size, if not more important... but we shall see.

Gosh Darn it!

I already know who is going to win, but we shall see how the other competetors shape up.

I'm afraid I don't decide who features in the tri-battles, that's decided by whoever wins the brackets. However methinks the final could easily turn out to be between Traya and G0-T0, which would be a very interesting battle indeed. But that depends if either of them make it to the semi-finals, and if they play there cards right.

 

Just thinking aloud here but my opinion of who is going to emerge the victor is shifting. I think the outcome would be much the same if the Kaggath became a chess tournament, guile and deception are just as important and strength and size, if not more important... but we shall see.

See, if that happens, I could see stalemate very easily. But that's for another day.

But if G0-T0 doesn't leave then how can he destory Tyber's power base?

 

Tyber can (and does) project power on a galactic stage. The war is all over the galaxy if G0-T0 doesn't leave Nar Shaddaa then Tyber wins by default.

 

Hanharr won't be bribed? Is loyal to the Exchange? What game where you playing? He (if you are dark) comes to YOU with a plan to find G0-T0 and kill for the Hutt. So yeah, he is not as loyal as Urai.

 

Also how do picture the fight going down? they walk into an area and some one yells start? I pictured it that either

1. Hanharr arranged events before hand with Tyber.

 

or

 

2. They ambush him with the HKs on point, Urai senes something and slips away. His troops get shoot up and he plays a cat and mouse game picking off the HKs one by one. Then he has a Boss Battle with Hanharr and gets Tyber to convince him join. Also G0-T0s' HKs weren't all that good a fighting.

Thanks for helping me with this Warren, but I got this.

How to hurt Zann's power base

1) Bounty Hunters and assassins. G0-T0 could easily send HK's to investigate, and from there sabotage and assassinate any who stand in G0-T0's way. This is the only real way I see it, but in all honesty, I don't see the point. Maybe a few, but not an invasion force. If G0-T0 stays on Nar Shaddaa, Zann will be forced to attack, since G0-T0 won't leave. This gets rid of Nightsister/rancors(I did this anyway), tanks, and a majority of Zann's army.

Your scenario (let's pretend) is flawed as well. So Hanharr sides with Zann (even though he won't) so what? HK's are droids. Droids programmed to kill. If something gets in the way of that kill, they are killed. No question. So, shoot Hanharr, then Urai. Send multiple HK's, and have them hide in wait. Hanharr begins doing whatever you say. HK's notice that Hanharr isn't fighting. That makes them shoot both targets. If Urai escapes, he ain't finding the HK's. Even with force sensitivity, they are droids, so no sensing.

Wait a second, where is the idea coming from that Urai used a force power around Ysalamiri?

Nothing really says in-game he used force powers, and if you're talking about that stun, that's from a personal device.....

Point: Urai's force sensitivity was very miniscule, he said himself he could only distinguish between light and dark.

Wait a second, where is the idea coming from that Urai used a force power around Ysalamiri?

Nothing really says in-game he used force powers, and if you're talking about that stun, that's from a personal device.....

Point: Urai's force sensitivity was very miniscule, he said himself he could only distinguish between light and dark.

 

How to hurt Zann's power base

1) Bounty Hunters and assassins. G0-T0 could easily send HK's to investigate, and from there sabotage and assassinate any who stand in G0-T0's way. This is the only real way I see it, but in all honesty, I don't see the point. Maybe a few, but not an invasion force. If G0-T0 stays on Nar Shaddaa, Zann will be forced to attack, since G0-T0 won't leave. This gets rid of Nightsister/rancors(I did this anyway), tanks, and a majority of Zann's army.

 

Your scenario (let's pretend) is flawed as well. So Hanharr sides with Zann (even though he won't) so what? HK's are droids. Droids programmed to kill. If something gets in the way of that kill, they are killed. No question. So, shoot Hanharr, then Urai. Send multiple HK's, and have them hide in wait. Hanharr begins doing whatever you say. HK's notice that Hanharr isn't fighting. That makes them shoot both targets. If Urai escapes, he ain't finding the HK's. Even with force sensitivity, they are droids, so no sensing.

But if G0-T0 is fighting a gang war on Nar Shaddaa how can he also be messing up Tybers power base? Tyber is coming from a much better starting position the only way G0-T0 can win is if he fights a guerrilla war. Which Tyber can defeat by bribing his forces and hunting down G0-T0's strong hold, which he then attacks in force (why would Tyber NOT use Nightsisters on Nar Shaddaa? Rancors on Skyscrapers sounds like win to me) and forces G0-T0 to defend him self or lose his only power base.

Another way is to find and blow up the HK factory, we know from the in-game content that the HKs have a homing beacon that can be used to trace them back to their place of origin, so Tybers' techs figure it out and then BOOM, no more HKs.

Also jedi can sense DANGER as well as intent. Ok well 1. I had too scenarios; The first had Hanharr side with Tyber before he even gets to the planet, in which case he could just destroy/sabotage the droids on the way there. In the Second one Urai didn't face Hanharr until AFTER all the HKs were destroyed, so either way the point about them is moot.

Also why would Hanharr not join Tyber? He can offer him just as much (if not more) bloodshed then G0-T0, who keep in mind likes order not chaos, so Hanharr would be disruptive to that. Maybe Tyber could bring that up "Hanharr, you are a mighty warrior, but surely you must realise G0-T0 will kill you after this join me and you can kill to your hearts content." OR some such argument.

G0-T0 doesn't need to leave Nar Shaddaa. But his forces (aka HKs, Ubese bounty hunters, Gand, Exchange, Zhug Brothers) will move across the galaxy to hurt Zanns powerbase. Also remember that in order to win G0-T0 just has to kill Zann. G0-T0 is all about endgame.

 

There's no winning by default. Traya stayed on Malachor and she won. Somehow. Anyways, staying in one place does not make you lose by default. In this case, it'll make G0-T0 win.

 

What game were -you- playing? You don't bribe Hanharr, he comes with you because he wants bloodshed. He doesn't care about credits, just battle. And siding with G0-T0 will get him many more people to kill than siding with Zann. There's no reason for him to defect.

His 'forces' can be beaten and Nar Shaddaa placed under blockade, as the planet starves (major issue for a city world) what will G0-T0 do?

Also the whole Traya thing bugs me; If you have contained the enemy threat why not wait them out? I could buy Revan being rash or impatient or just think he was unbeatable, but Tyber he just say 'Let him rot, I've got a galaxy to corrupt. HAHAHAHAHA" Also Revan surrendered, even though it was explicitly stated in the op that you can't/won't.

Any way, I never said you bribed Hanharr, he was working for Voga the Hutt the entire time. My point was that he was not loyal to G0-T0 the same way Urai is to Tyber. he wants to kill and kill a lot, G0-T0 likes order Hanharr is not conducive to order, thus he will kill him after the war. Also Tyber can offer him just as much if not more bloodshde/chance to fight Urai then G0-T0.

Also about influence, G0-T0 can influence markets and economies but he can't effect regime change directly. He could work for months to position his pieces and set up for a friendly government to take over a planet, then have Tyber come in and take out the new guy with his army.

A fun way I could see this ending is Tyber and G0-T0 teaming up to take over the Galaxy. Tyber will provide stability and military forces will G0-T0 manages the books. They would be a joint entry, meaning that they wouldn't have any allies as one fills that spot for the other.

"Jedi, Sith, Empire, Republic. Their time has past now comes the age of the Consortium." The full name is the Zann-G0-T0 or G0-T0-Zann Consortium.

:

But if G0-T0 is fighting a gang war on Nar Shaddaa how can he also be messing up Tybers power base? Tyber is coming from a much better starting position the only way G0-T0 can win is if he fights a guerrilla war. Which Tyber can defeat by bribing his forces and hunting down G0-T0's strong hold, which he then attacks in force (why would Tyber NOT use Nightsisters on Nar Shaddaa? Rancors on Skyscrapers sounds like win to me) and forces G0-T0 to defend him self or lose his only power base.

 

Another way is to find and blow up the HK factory, we know from the in-game content that the HKs have a homing beacon that can be used to trace them back to their place of origin, so Tybers' techs figure it out and then BOOM, no more HKs.

 

Also jedi can sense DANGER as well as intent. Ok well 1. I had too scenarios; The first had Hanharr side with Tyber before he even gets to the planet, in which case he could just destroy/sabotage the droids on the way there. In the Second one Urai didn't face Hanharr until AFTER all the HKs were destroyed, so either way the point about them is moot.

 

Also why would Hanharr not join Tyber? He can offer him just as much (if not more) bloodshed then G0-T0, who keep in mind likes order not chaos, so Hanharr would be disruptive to that. Maybe Tyber could bring that up "Hanharr, you are a mighty warrior, but surely you must realise G0-T0 will kill you after this join me and you can kill to your hearts content." OR some such argument.

 

 

 

 

 

 

His 'forces' can be beaten and Nar Shaddaa placed under blockade, as the planet starves (major issue for a city world) what will G0-T0 do?

 

Also the whole Traya thing bugs me; If you have contained the enemy threat why not wait them out? I could buy Revan being rash or impatient or just think he was unbeatable, but Tyber he just say 'Let him rot, I've got a galaxy to corrupt. HAHAHAHAHA" Also Revan surrendered, even though it was explicitly stated in the op that you can't/won't.

 

 

Any way, I never said you bribed Hanharr, he was working for Voga the Hutt the entire time. My point was that he was not loyal to G0-T0 the same way Urai is to Tyber. he wants to kill and kill a lot, G0-T0 likes order Hanharr is not conducive to order, thus he will kill him after the war. Also Tyber can offer him just as much if not more bloodshde/chance to fight Urai then G0-T0.

 

Also about influence, G0-T0 can influence markets and economies but he can't effect regime change directly. He could work for months to position his pieces and set up for a friendly government to take over a planet, then have Tyber come in and take out the new guy with his army.

 

 

A fun way I could see this ending is Tyber and G0-T0 teaming up to take over the Galaxy. Tyber will provide stability and military forces will G0-T0 manages the books. They would be a joint entry, meaning that they wouldn't have any allies as one fills that spot for the other.

 

"Jedi, Sith, Empire, Republic. Their time has past now comes the age of the Consortium." The full name is the Zann-G0-T0 or G0-T0-Zann Consortium.

 

:

Not going to rebut the entire post, but some things I definitely will. First, what bloodshed can come from killing droids? Last time I killed a droid it didn't bleed. So no. And I don't see how bribery would work. G0-T0 is an Exchange boss, he has money. Just buy them back, or put a bounty on them. Simple.

Next, you try killing an assassin droid. I don't think it's easy. So go for it, but it will end in death, even if he loses. Also, just send maybe four or five HK's, and make more to fight in the gang war. (Sorry this is out of order.)

Just send in your Nightsisters and rancors. See how far that goes. Hutts and everyone will fight rancors, and as stated before, just snipe the nighsister off, and the rancor will stampede.

Lastly, go ahead and blockade the planet. Really, please do. This just makes G0-T0 more powerful. Why?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Nar_Shaddaa

The smuggler will go to G0-T0, the man(droid) who promises freedom. And the smuggler won the battle.

EDIT: most of G0-T0's forces are droids that don't have to eat. Also, G0-T0 would simply tell the people to fight with him, and they would. Even the Hutts would help him, and in doing so, he become powerful. They beat the blockade and he is a hero. HE rallies once more an destroys Zann. Game over.

You make goods points Ausstig, except rancors on towers is not a good idea! Lol, I can just imagine the havoc and chaos as Nar Shaddaa starts raining rancors.

NOTE: I think we've exhausted this argument, (you guys are getting too good at debating ) So I'm going to wrap this up tommorow, feel free to make final statements.

You make goods points Ausstig, except rancors on towers is not a good idea! Lol, I can just imagine the havoc and chaos as Nar Shaddaa starts raining rancors.

 

NOTE: I think we've exhausted this argument, (you guys are getting too good at debating ) So I'm going to wrap this up tommorow, feel free to make final statements.

This makes my gut tingle in G0-T0 defeat. I sure hope I'm wrong. No final thoughts yet, maybe tomorrow if there is time left.

EDIT: Good battle Ausstig, you are a great debater.

Maybe GO-TO didn't win quite yet then....

I think this was stated earlier, but the only way GO-TO could win is if he fought on Nar Shaddaa. The tight spaces, limited movement, and other neutral factions on the planet are his playground. Outside Nar Shaddaa, he's rather weakened. He'll still have underworld stuff happening on other planets, but a lot of other planets are more open than Nar Shaddaa, which is where he falls.

I can't really offer more input unless I can get an answer to the following:

How much to the combatants know about each other?

Not going to rebut the entire post, but some things I definitely will. First, what bloodshed can come from killing droids? Last time I killed a droid it didn't bleed. So no. And I don't see how bribery would work. G0-T0 is an Exchange boss, he has money. Just buy them back, or put a bounty on them. Simple.

 

Next, you try killing an assassin droid. I don't think it's easy. So go for it, but it will end in death, even if he loses. Also, just send maybe four or five HK's, and make more to fight in the gang war. (Sorry this is out of order.)

 

Just send in your Nightsisters and rancors. See how far that goes. Hutts and everyone will fight rancors, and as stated before, just snipe the nighsister off, and the rancor will stampede.

 

Lastly, go ahead and blockade the planet. Really, please do. This just makes G0-T0 more powerful. Why?

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Nar_Shaddaa

The smuggler will go to G0-T0, the man(droid) who promises freedom. And the smuggler won the battle.

EDIT: most of G0-T0's forces are droids that don't have to eat. Also, G0-T0 would simply tell the people to fight with him, and they would. Even the Hutts would help him, and in doing so, he become powerful. They beat the blockade and he is a hero. HE rallies once more an destroys Zann. Game over.

My point about bloodshed was more about just doing general work for Tyber. Also G0-T0 has the Ubese assassins and the Gand.

Also I don't get what you are saying about the HKs, they self destruct, so what that will only surprise people once and if they are taken out fast enough they won't do that, the fight on Nar Shaddaa against T3 for example.

Also your example of the battle of Nar Shaddaa is a false one. This is not the Empire it is a gang boss, one who can pay smugglers and offer them 'freedom'. Also who cares about G0-T0's droids, the 'common people' will starve and when Tyber sends down his defilers to offer them weapons to take food form G0-T0, you think they will care who is at fault? maybe a little but food or even simply saying that if G0-T0 goes they can eat again, will win people over. Chaos disrupts G0-T0 saps his power and makes it difficult for him to compete on the galactic stage.

Also the Hutts can't/won't join, it's in the op. For arguments sake though Tyber just buys them off with an offer of exclusive rights to Nar Shaddaa when the war is over, something G0-T0 cannot do.

Nar Shaddaa is not a fortress world like Malacore V. It is a city planet, it is G0-T0's only power base while Tyber has numerous systems under his direct and indirect control.

The stage is the galaxy and as such Tyber has a massive advantage that would take time to redress, time G0-T0 does not have, while dealing with Tyber attacks on Nar Shadda.

Unless they team up then Tyber Zann wins.

My point about bloodshed was more about just doing general work for Tyber. Also G0-T0 has the Ubese assassins and the Gand.

 

Also I don't get what you are saying about the HKs, they self destruct, so what that will only surprise people once and if they are taken out fast enough they won't do that, the fight on Nar Shaddaa against T3 for example.

 

Also your example of the battle of Nar Shaddaa is a false one. This is not the Empire it is a gang boss, one who can pay smugglers and offer them 'freedom'. Also who cares about G0-T0's droids, the 'common people' will starve and when Tyber sends down his defilers to offer them weapons to take food form G0-T0, you think they will care who is at fault? maybe a little but food or even simply saying that if G0-T0 goes they can eat again, will win people over. Chaos disrupts G0-T0 saps his power and makes it difficult for him to compete on the galactic stage.

 

Also the Hutts can't/won't join, it's in the op. For arguments sake though Tyber just buys them off with an offer of exclusive rights to Nar Shaddaa when the war is over, something G0-T0 cannot do.

 

Nar Shaddaa is not a fortress world like Malacore V. It is a city planet, it is G0-T0's only power base while Tyber has numerous systems under his direct and indirect control.

 

The stage is the galaxy and as such Tyber has a massive advantage that would take time to redress, time G0-T0 does not have, while dealing with Tyber attacks on Nar Shadda.

 

Unless they team up then Tyber Zann wins.

Some of this I agree, but the blockade would most certainty give G0-T0 an advantage. Why? The Exchange would starve as we'll, showing the people they weren't at fault. And bribery won't work, Zann isn't the only one with money.

The HKs are advantage. They self destruct, but they don't/wouldn't be captured or trapped. They assassinate from a distance, so good luck getting to them

Any help Warren?

Also I don't get what you are saying about the HKs, they self destruct, so what that will only surprise people once and if they are taken out fast enough they won't do that, the fight on Nar Shaddaa against T3 for example.

 

Even when they self destructed their parts were removable and were able to be used to fix up HK-47. So it is conceivable for Zann to locate the HK factory and destroy it, thus removing a solid piece of G0-T0's powerbase.

Some of this I agree, but the blockade would most certainty give G0-T0 an advantage. Why? The Exchange would starve as we'll, showing the people they weren't at fault. And bribery won't work, Zann isn't the only one with money.

 

The HKs are advantage. They self destruct, but they don't/wouldn't be captured or trapped. They assassinate from a distance, so good luck getting to them

 

Any help Warren?

The Exchange, at least the high ups, won't starve as much as the other people THAT will lead to resentment. Also about bribes, who is talking about money? I am talking about giving people the means to bring down the Exchange that are keeping them starving. Anger is not always rational, look at the Galactic history Vid "Breaking the Mandolerian Blockade", there were food riots on Coruscant. Or in our world, there are many occasions where staving people have overthrown a government, desperate people do desperate things, particularly when they have access to weapons.

On the HKs

Even when they self destructed their parts were removable and were able to be used to fix up HK-47. So it is conceivable for Zann to locate the HK factory and destroy it, thus removing a solid piece of G0-T0's powerbase.

What he said.

Also if we include cut content, which I don't know if it is cannon or not, then HK-47 does trace them back to their factory after capturing one.

This makes my gut tingle in G0-T0 defeat. I sure hope I'm wrong. No final thoughts yet, maybe tomorrow if there is time left.

 

EDIT: Good battle Ausstig, you are a great debater.

Serch your feelings you know it to be true:)

Also you are indeed a worthy opponent.

Any help Warren?

Sorry Canino, I was sick all day

A few points real quick. (Mostly on what Ausstig said)

It has already been settled that blockading Nar Shaddaa or blowing it up is a horrible idea. Everybody in the entire criminal underworld will hate Zann. Even if he bribes people, that doesn't make any sense because they'll still be losing influence and business. Also, the minute gis fleet comes out of hyperspace over Nar Shaddaa, everyone will hate him for making such an obvious power play. Messing with Nar Shaddaa = death.

I was wondering when someone would bring up killing HK factory. But if this is the height of G0-T0s power, he has enough HKs to last a lifetime. Also, HK-47 found it, but good luck destroying hundreds of HKs or bombing it, considering it's in a bunker.

On Hanharr, it does not make any sense for him to defect. It doesn't. There's too little motivation. Zann's forces were almost all organic, so if he wants bloodshed, Hangarr will side with G0-T0. There's just no reason for him to switch sides.

Also, Urai was not a Jedi, and, as stated, was very weak in the Force. To say he has precognitive abilities is wrong, seeing as we have no evidence of that. He would die just as easily as Zann at the hands of assassins and HKs.

People very much underestimate the Exchange. Tell me, what is Tyber Zann's actual galactic influence? In the game he is from, play the story mode. He's not conquering Coruscant, he's stealing something from it. He has a couple worlds on the outer rim, but its not like he captured half the galaxy. The Exchange, on the other hand, has presence across the galaxy. Stating that the Exchange is weaker is wrong. The Exchange merely has a smaller military, which is what allows it to work across the galaxy and gain so much power.

I'll make my final statement later tonight, hopefully. Sorry for being absent today, but with the point system and the scenarios presented I find it very unlikely G0-T0 will lose.

The Exchange, at least the high ups, won't starve as much as the other people THAT will lead to resentment. Also about bribes, who is talking about money? I am talking about giving people the means to bring down the Exchange that are keeping them starving. Anger is not always rational, look at the Galactic history Vid "Breaking the Mandolerian Blockade", there were food riots on Coruscant. Or in our world, there are many occasions where staving people have overthrown a government, desperate people do desperate things, particularly when they have access to weapons.

...

So your argument here is that the people of Nar Shaddaa will hate the Exchange because Zann is making them starve? It's the other way around.

Firstly, "the people" have been oppressed forever on Nar Shaddaa. That isn't going to change anytime soon. Nar Shaddaa is cut into neat little corners where gangs control the people in their territory. You think they haven't put down rebellions before? I assure you that "people" are very bad off now and if they were going to roit, they would have. They already are starving. If the blockade made them worse off, they would be more likely to join organizations like the Exchange to fight it off.

Secondly, the people that matter, aka bounty hunters and smugglers and gang leaders, will not like Zann or the blockade. They'll hate how it takes away their power and ability to trade and expand around the galaxy. I encourage you to take another look at that "Breaking the Mandalorian Blockade" video. Who did the smugglers defeat? The Mandalorians, the ones behind the blockade. Why? Because it brought them profit and fame. They didn't help take the Republic down. Because blockades are bad for business.

And lastly, even if Zann's blockade manages to survive, remember this is the Smuggler's Moon. You know, like people who run blockades for a living? Zann's "food blockade" would not be able to stand up to thousands of smugglers doing what they do best: smuggling.

In short, Nar Shaddaa is already starving. Putting a blockade in place won't stop smugglers, and will only anger every single person on Nar Shaddaa against Zann.