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Spoilers and why I did not like TLJ


NuSeC

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What is a jung archetype, what is the Hero's journey? What makes a character arc? None of these characters follow one. Rey is given super natural force ability and is and has been a Mary Sue. She then beats Kylo Ren multiple times for what kind of progressive arc in upcoming films?

 

Finn was a janitor turned side quest fetcher with plot lines no one cares about or think should be in the films.

 

BB 8 is product placement.

 

Beat Kylo multiple times? I can only think of one time that she beat him, and he was injured and unbalanced.

 

She keeps getting called a Mary Sue due to her skills and Force abilities, but there are genuine explanations.

 

- Piloting the Falcon? I mean she helped Uncarr Plutt work on it. She clearly knew how to fly well enough when it came to the quadjumper that gets blown up.

- Fighting skills? Surviving on a desert scavenger world is tough. You gotta know how to survive.

- Force abilities? Stories and belief. She knew the legends of the Jedi, and she believed once she realized she had some potential. Yoda’s only comment to Luke in ESB was that he failed because he didn’t believe.

 

She has flaws, where she’s incredibly naive, believing Finn on first meeting that he was Resistance despite BB-8’s aggression toward him. She believes Kylo will turn if she goes to him, which horribly backfires. Etc.

 

Finn? A janitor that is an absolute coward until Crait? Who, had he not gone on the sidequest, would’ve led to a much quicker end to the movie? Who becomes willing to sacrifice himself and truly believes in the Rebel cause? Let’s not forget that without him they wouldn’t have been able to beat the Starkiller.

 

BB-8? Everyone needs an astromech droid wth them.

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If you didn't catch my drift I'm done feeding the troll. I'm sure you're far more qualified then all the critics when it comes to rating a movie... lol. You've shown your true colors... So we're done here.

 

You're the troll that defends a crap movie. Despite a mounting movement of content being created against it.

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Beat Kylo multiple times? I can only think of one time that she beat him, and he was injured and unbalanced.

 

She keeps getting called a Mary Sue due to her skills and Force abilities, but there are genuine explanations.

 

- Piloting the Falcon? I mean she helped Uncarr Plutt work on it. She clearly knew how to fly well enough when it came to the quadjumper that gets blown up.

- Fighting skills? Surviving on a desert scavenger world is tough. You gotta know how to survive.

- Force abilities? Stories and belief. She knew the legends of the Jedi, and she believed once she realized she had some potential. Yoda’s only comment to Luke in ESB was that he failed because he didn’t believe.

 

She has flaws, where she’s incredibly naive, believing Finn on first meeting that he was Resistance despite BB-8’s aggression toward him. She believes Kylo will turn if she goes to him, which horribly backfires. Etc.

 

Finn? A janitor that is an absolute coward until Crait? Who, had he not gone on the sidequest, would’ve led to a much quicker end to the movie? Who becomes willing to sacrifice himself and truly believes in the Rebel cause? Let’s not forget that without him they wouldn’t have been able to beat the Starkiller.

 

BB-8? Everyone needs an astromech droid wth them.

 

You mention Finn being the key to the starkiller base destruction like its a good thing and not the MacGuffin that it is.

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You mention Finn being the key to the starkiller base destruction like its a good thing and not the MacGuffin that it is.

 

Because we didn’t have Starkiller plans like they had for the Death Star? Macguffins aren’t always bad anyway.

 

And since you seem to hate on MacGuffins....”On the commentary soundtrack to the 2004 DVD release of Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, writer and director George Lucas describes R2-D2 as "the main driving force of the movie … what you say in the movie business is the MacGuffin … the object of everybody's search"” (1)

 

(1) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin

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Because we didn’t have Starkiller plans like they had for the Death Star? Macguffins aren’t always bad anyway.

 

And since you seem to hate on MacGuffins....”On the commentary soundtrack to the 2004 DVD release of Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, writer and director George Lucas describes R2-D2 as "the main driving force of the movie … what you say in the movie business is the MacGuffin … the object of everybody's search"” (1)

 

(1) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin

 

R2D2's role had purpose for carrying the plans for the majority of movie. We had no idea Finn had this secret knowledge until the very briefing leading tot he attack as if the line was made up and they ran with it.

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If you didn't catch my drift I'm done feeding the troll. I'm sure you're far more qualified then all the critics when it comes to rating a movie... lol. You've shown your true colors... So we're done here.

 

What makes critics qualified in rating a movie?

 

Hell, one of my favorite critics is openly biased in reviews that she considers furthering feminism. Giving a movie a go even when it would likely be terrible. :p

 

Basically, critics can and do have agendas. Some just have fears of giving bad reviews to a movie they think will get them backlash for giving a bad review. :p

 

Personally, I'm less inclined to see Rey as a Mary Sue. She feels like she's about where the other main force users are, except like everything, writers keep wanting to one up each other.

 

I'd say Rey just suffers from bad acting and/or bad writing and people mistake Mary Sue with obvious agendas they either don't want in their fiction or just disagree with.

 

They never should've had her fight Kylo in TFA. Kylo had years and years of training with the build up that he's also got lots of power (and with TLJ it would like like he wasn't afraid to hit the gym) vs the girl who just came to realize she had force powers and was to busy trying to survive to make any sort of muscle fitness a priority outside of every day survival needs.

 

It would've been as if Luke had fought Vader in ANH and won. :p However, they did need her to survive and not be captured again. So, barring anyone coming to her rescue (which would then have people saying "Sure, have the girl get rescued) she had to pretty much win for the story.

 

Luke was supposed to be a good pilot too and fans accepted it. I'd say the only thing we really didn't see Luke be said to be great at, is tech, which he still seemed to have some sort of skill.

 

Vader only seemed to get tech skills as little Annikin and then I really don't remember those skills used ever again (where they used after TPM?).

 

Which makes me wonder. Would there be less Mary Sue Rey, if she was played by a better actress?

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R2D2's role had purpose for carrying the plans for the majority of movie. We had no idea Finn had this secret knowledge until the very briefing leading tot he attack as if the line was made up and they ran with it.

 

Which brings us too...why did they take the Janitor along with them to wipe out a small settlement? :p

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R2D2's role had purpose for carrying the plans for the majority of movie. We had no idea Finn had this secret knowledge until the very briefing leading tot he attack as if the line was made up and they ran with it.

 

The creator of Star Wars literally calls R2-D2 a MacGuffin. R2-D2 is given the plans to the Death Star..why him? Where did he come from? Why did Leia think he was the best choice? R2 moves fhe plot along, from taking the plans, to inadvertedly finding Luke, to suddenly having belonged to Obi-Wan, to being able to control a trash compctor that would have otherwise ended Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewy. He is the entire reason the plot of ANH moves forward.

 

All this to say, Finn being a MacGuffin at that point isn’t bad. The majority of the First Order was on that base, so it figures Finn would have been there at some point, especially with how longn it would’ve taken to be built. He brings it up because he finds out Rey was taken there, and he only wants to save Rey.

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Which brings us too...why did they take the Janitor along with them to wipe out a small settlement? :p

 

Finn is no janitor, it's just a silly claim that was made up by intentionally misinterpreting Finn's word.

His duties as "janitor" were disciplinary actions due to his squad's middling performance and his frequent bouts of lone wolf behaviors. (See "Before the Awakening", mostly)

A "janitor" wouldn't have a rather decent skill with a blaster rifle and an shock-baton (We'll not mention his performance with a lightsaber though.)

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Finn is no janitor, it's just a silly claim that was made up by intentionally misinterpreting Finn's word.

His duties as "janitor" were disciplinary actions due to his squad's middling performance and his frequent bouts of lone wolf behaviors. (See "Before the Awakening", mostly)

A "janitor" wouldn't have a rather decent skill with a blaster rifle and an shock-baton (We'll not mention his performance with a lightsaber though.)

 

I'm sorry but sourcing a side story not in the movie is bad film making. he says un jokingly that he did sanitation.

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Which brings us too...why did they take the Janitor along with them to wipe out a small settlement? :p

 

Exactly. And if as some apologist claims, that its part of a side book that he was there as a disciplinary action for poor performance than WHY would he be attached to Kylo Ren at all?

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Are people really not familiar with the concept of latrine duty? I assumed the first person who posted was just making a joke, not legitimately asking or criticising the movie over it.

 

No "side book" is required to understand the implication that Finn was low man on the totem pole and got stuck on that detail.

Edited by DarthDymond
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I never said ramming other ships was the norm, I said they have it built in to protecting the carrier. And if they have to take a hit, they will do whatever it take, including ram another ship before it can hit the carrier. Obviously you would use other ordnance before just running a boat into someone. But to say there is no case or that it is never done is a stretch.

 

 

My point is on the whole kamikaze thing is that it can be very effective. It is essentially a guided missile before guided missiles were a thing.

 

It is still a thing but we dont call it that, we now call it terrorist attacks. Some dude loading himself or others up with explosives for suicide bombings. It is the same principle.

 

yeah... its not even remotely the abnormal. How exactly is ramming ships built into the protection? There is no standing orders for that. There isn't a situtation where soemthing like that would occur in modern warfare

 

NO KAMIKAZE WASN"T EVER EFFECTIVE THAT"S THE POINT!

 

No Terrorists attacks are the EXACT OPPOSITE OF BUILDING LARGE NAVAL SHIPS FOR THE PURPOSE OF RAMMING THEM INTO OTHER SHIPS!

 

A terrorist bombing is there to spread fear and is done when they don't have money to do large scale attacks. They aren't effective at all at stopping an enemy. If they did the terrorists groups would have won and we would have surrendered.

 

Rememer the whole point of this dissucsion is

 

"Why don't the rebels just build ships and hyperspace them into the Empires ships"

 

As YOU your self have shown its NOT effective at stopping the enemy and its sure as heck not cost effective.

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Finn is no janitor, it's just a silly claim that was made up by intentionally misinterpreting Finn's word.

His duties as "janitor" were disciplinary actions due to his squad's middling performance and his frequent bouts of lone wolf behaviors. (See "Before the Awakening", mostly)

A "janitor" wouldn't have a rather decent skill with a blaster rifle and an shock-baton (We'll not mention his performance with a lightsaber though.)

 

Didn't read the side books. People shouldn't have too. :p I'm not saying he isn't a trained soldier. Even the army teaches it's cooks to shoot. :p However, he basically comes out and says it.

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yeah... its not even remotely the abnormal. How exactly is ramming ships built into the protection? There is no standing orders for that. There isn't a situtation where soemthing like that would occur in modern warfare

 

NO KAMIKAZE WASN"T EVER EFFECTIVE THAT"S THE POINT!

 

No Terrorists attacks are the EXACT OPPOSITE OF BUILDING LARGE NAVAL SHIPS FOR THE PURPOSE OF RAMMING THEM INTO OTHER SHIPS!

 

A terrorist bombing is there to spread fear and is done when they don't have money to do large scale attacks. They aren't effective at all at stopping an enemy. If they did the terrorists groups would have won and we would have surrendered.

 

Rememer the whole point of this dissucsion is

 

"Why don't the rebels just build ships and hyperspace them into the Empires ships"

 

As YOU your self have shown its NOT effective at stopping the enemy and its sure as heck not cost effective.

 

I never said it was the same thing (terrorist vs naval ships) I said the theory is the same, use as little of your resources as possible to inflict as much damage as possible.

 

That is it. So if you have a cruiser that can take out a ship 20x its size with 20 times the personnel, then you have inflicted that much more damage to the enemy. It is math.

 

This becomes extremely helpful especially for small things flown by droids or auto pilot into much larger things. It does not even need to be a ship is my point. Think of it more like controlled missiles that are capable of hyperspace.

 

Are you saying, that if a ship is damaged and is unable to fire, and you have another ship headed for the carrier that the ship unable to fire would not ram the ship attempting to sink the carrier? It would just let it sink it instead of ramming it. I say this because I have saw Admirals discuss the protections and protocols surrounding a carrier fleet. This included running ships into the line of fire and ramming if need be to defend the carrier.

 

I mean, if you say that they would just let the carrier take the hit and sink in those circumstances, I will gracefully move on.

Edited by NuSeC
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This becomes extremely helpful especially for small things flown by droids or auto pilot into much larger things. It does not even need to be a ship is my point. Think of it more like controlled missiles that are capable of hyperspace.

 

You touched on something very interesting. Why not just develop hyperspace missiles and target the enemy base? The navigation system would be installed on the missile, but the calculations would be uploaded remotely. Seems that this would work better for rebels, as empire/FO bases are more likely to be permanent, whereas the rebels are constantly on the move. I suppose the biggest thing to hold them back is the potential for collateral damage. At the very least, it may be possible to have a tracker placed on the potential target (if a ship) and aim there.

 

Intriguing. :t_cool:

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You touched on something very interesting. Why not just develop hyperspace missiles and target the enemy base? The navigation system would be installed on the missile, but the calculations would be uploaded remotely. Seems that this would work better for rebels, as empire/FO bases are more likely to be permanent, whereas the rebels are constantly on the move. I suppose the biggest thing to hold them back is the potential for collateral damage. At the very least, it may be possible to have a tracker placed on the potential target (if a ship) and aim there.

 

Intriguing. :t_cool:

 

The sad part is, this is my thoughts immediately after watching the scene and the hole that it creates in other films both ahead of the franchise and behind it. I am a single observer, to suggest I thought of something that nobody in the SW universe thought of is well... where the actual issues arise.

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I never said it was the same thing (terrorist vs naval ships) I said the theory is the same, use as little of your resources as possible to inflict as much damage as possible.

 

That is it. So if you have a cruiser that can take out a ship 20x its size with 20 times the personnel, then you have inflicted that much more damage to the enemy. It is math.

 

This becomes extremely helpful especially for small things flown by droids or auto pilot into much larger things. It does not even need to be a ship is my point. Think of it more like controlled missiles that are capable of hyperspace.

 

Are you saying, that if a ship is damaged and is unable to fire, and you have another ship headed for the carrier that the ship unable to fire would not ram the ship attempting to sink the carrier? It would just let it sink it instead of ramming it. I say this because I have saw Admirals discuss the protections and protocols surrounding a carrier fleet. This included running ships into the line of fire and ramming if need be to defend the carrier.

 

I mean, if you say that they would just let the carrier take the hit and sink in those circumstances, I will gracefully move on.

no the theory isn't the same...

 

Ok so lets start with your impossible scenario. So you are saying in a Naval battle let's say US vs China, the US fleet has been damaged to the point where every single weapon on both the US and Chinese fleets have been disabled and there are no more aircraft to take off. So a Chinese ship decides to ram the US carrier? And then a US ship would ram the Chinese ship to prevent it?

 

Do you see how illogical this situtation is?

 

Because if any US ship has any weapons left they would use them first. This could only happen if the other ship tries to ram the US carrier because if they use a Missile or fire a deck gun the US ship wouldn't be able to move fast enough to block it.

 

They might be able to move in the path of a torpedo but that is only helpful if they are using WW2 torpedoes that move on the surface. Anything in the past 30 years is fully submerged so you can't block it.

 

 

 

 

So yeah ramming another ship is not a useful tactic.

 

The only situtuatoiin where they would even be able to stop that is if its heading straight towards the other fleet. if it comes from Behind or even perpendicular the oncoming ship just aims for the Aft of the ship as the defending ship can't do a U turn or Back up fast enough to stop it.

 

 

 

 

"That is it. So if you have a cruiser that can take out a ship 20x its size with 20 times the personnel, then you have inflicted that much more damage to the enemy. It is math."

 

.... yeah... that's why we invented guns... missiles.... and torpedoes.

 

The reason why suicide bombers aren't effective at actually stopping us is because they don't do enough damage. Sure they cause fear and take lives but they are also out of a religious zealot.

 

Now back to Star Wars.

 

The reason they don't make a missile with this capability

1 A missle woulld have to have a warp core ie to make the jump to light speed so you are at least talking about A-wing size.

2. The reason the Raddus was able to take out the First Orders fleet isn't just due to the hyperspace jump but also do it's freaking size and mass. If an A-wing tried that sure it would damage the Supremecy but not even remotely disable it or even hinder it really.

3. In addtion to its size it also has armor and shielding to withstand the obvious barrage of weapons that was occuring as the First Order tried to stop it. Had they been able to disable it, then it would have been wasted.

4. The Ship didn't hit them while in Hyper space it hit them while it was jumping to hyperspace. From what is canon Hyperspace is an alternate dimension where you actually go through other ships and what not. The reason Han says go through a star and what not in ANH is because a large gravitational field can pull you out of Hyperspace (we also see this in Rebels with the Gravity well) So you could be ripped out of hyperspace and reemerige in a Star That's why you need to get proper coordiantes.

5. also the ship has to be at the perfect distance where you are fast enough to rip through the other ships with out making it to Hyperspace but far enough you can reach the maximum velocity. Otherwise you get what happened in Rogue One where the fleeing rebels slammed into Vader's ship

 

 

 

So as you can see its kind of a waste to build several capital ship sized weapons to warp into enemy ships. Not to mention lets say the Rebles starting doing this. The First order would just Spread their fleet out more to prevent them from taking out all of the ships making it a 1 for 1 loss. Those are the kind of numbers the First Order could easily win with.

 

Yeah so they did think of this when writing the movie and creating the Star Wars universe.

Edited by jarjarloves
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no the theory isn't the same...

 

Ok so lets start with your impossible scenario. So you are saying in a Naval battle let's say US vs China, the US fleet has been damaged to the point where every single weapon on both the US and Chinese fleets have been disabled and there are no more aircraft to take off. So a Chinese ship decides to ram the US carrier? And then a US ship would ram the Chinese ship to prevent it?

 

Do you see how illogical this situtation is?

 

Because if any US ship has any weapons left they would use them first. This could only happen if the other ship tries to ram the US carrier because if they use a Missile or fire a deck gun the US ship wouldn't be able to move fast enough to block it.

 

They might be able to move in the path of a torpedo but that is only helpful if they are using WW2 torpedoes that move on the surface. Anything in the past 30 years is fully submerged so you can't block it.

 

 

 

 

So yeah ramming another ship is not a useful tactic.

 

The only situtuatoiin where they would even be able to stop that is if its heading straight towards the other fleet. if it comes from Behind or even perpendicular the oncoming ship just aims for the Aft of the ship as the defending ship can't do a U turn or Back up fast enough to stop it.

 

 

.... yeah... that's why we invented guns... missiles.... and torpedoes.

 

 

Dude, like I said, what i stated is what admirals have said about protecting the carriers. Apparently, you know more than them so I will differ to your good judgement.

 

 

However, my point is just the idea of sending lightspeed capable objects into other objects. That is all.

 

 

 

The reason why suicide bombers aren't effective at actually stopping us is because they don't do enough damage. Sure they cause fear and take lives but they are also out of a religious zealot.

From my understanding, it was meant to not only send terror into the enemy, but also take out bombers and such. These bombers were capable of taking out a town or troop encampment. Not to mention usually held several more people than a single piloted plane. So it was a net positive for the ones they hit. This was pre-missile era fighting.

 

 

 

Now back to Star Wars.

 

The reason they don't make a missile with this capability

1 A missle woulld have to have a warp core ie to make the jump to light speed so you are at least talking about A-wing size.

OK?

2. The reason the Raddus was able to take out the First Orders fleet isn't just due to the hyperspace jump but also do it's freaking size and mass. If an A-wing tried that sure it would damage the Supremecy but not even remotely disable it or even hinder it really.

This is speculation.

 

3. In addtion to its size it also has armor and shielding to withstand the obvious barrage of weapons that was occuring as the First Order tried to stop it. Had they been able to disable it, then it would have been wasted.

Speculation again. If we are talking about something that is programmed/droid controlled and would be much more maneuverable "like a missile."

 

4. The Ship didn't hit them while in Hyper space it hit them while it was jumping to hyperspace. From what is canon Hyperspace is an alternate dimension where you actually go through other ships and what not. The reason Han says go through a star and what not in ANH is because a large gravitational field can pull you out of Hyperspace (we also see this in Rebels with the Gravity well) So you could be ripped out of hyperspace and reemerige in a Star That's why you need to get proper coordiantes.

I mean, I like how you bring rebels into it and all but it is not really fair that if I use it as a point "its not canon" and dismissed. If someone who liked the movie does to make their point then no big deal. Kind of a double standard there.

 

Also,

You could shoot it from a ship as a missile at another ship/base/small moon/death star/star killer base.

 

 

 

5. also the ship has to be at the perfect distance where you are fast enough to rip through the other ships with out making it to Hyperspace but far enough you can reach the maximum velocity. Otherwise you get what happened in Rogue One where the fleeing rebels slammed into Vader's ship

You would design it for its purpose.. Look what we do with missiles. The different payloads, speeds and sizes. It would not be inconceivable for this to be a thing. I mean, they kind of opened the door up for it. Just like they opened the door for force users to now be superman in space.

 

 

So as you can see its kind of a waste to build several capital ship sized weapons to warp into enemy ships. Not to mention lets say the Rebles starting doing this. The First order would just Spread their fleet out more to prevent them from taking out all of the ships making it a 1 for 1 loss. Those are the kind of numbers the First Order could easily win with.

Not if it is in missile form. As a matter of fact, they could just make one that explodes on contact for even more impact. Hyperspace is a thing everyone in the SW universe knows about... like the common combustion engine is to us. It has now been proven-able to be weaponized.

 

Yeah so they did think of this when writing the movie and creating the Star Wars universe.

Not really.

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Dude, like I said, what i stated is what admirals have said about protecting the carriers. Apparently, you know more than them so I will differ to your good judgement.

 

 

However, my point is just the idea of sending lightspeed capable objects into other objects. That is all.

 

ok what Adm rial said that? Show me the quote

 

"From my understanding, it was meant to not only send terror into the enemy, but also take out bombers and such. These bombers were capable of taking out a town or troop encampment. Not to mention usually held several more people than a single piloted plane. So it was a net positive for the ones they hit. This was pre-missile era fighting.

 

so you are talking WW2. Problem being Carriers didn't have bombers on them. Sure the P51 could have A bomb but we didn't carry bombers on carriers due to not having enough runway. This leads to the whole Doolittle Raiders where they had specially stripped down bombers to make a long range attack on Japan.

 

Yeah your idea or theory never happend. They also were never sent to specifiaclly crash into a carrier. They did it as a last resort.

 

As for the other points

 

1. So you are talking about a lot more resources then just a missle.

 

 

2

. This is speculation.

 

No it's not we see that by the fact that ships is the same height as the Supremecy hence the fact it cleaves it in half

 

3.

Speculation again. If we are talking about something that is programmed/droid controlled and would be much more maneuverable "like a missile."

 

No its not speculation we see the First order turn all guns on the ship. it survives due to its shielding and armor.

 

Also notice how in Star Wars every time before a jump to light speed the ship slows down almost to a stop before jumping? You can't jump to light speed while manuvering or going really fast.

 

4.

mean, I like how you bring rebels into it and all but it is not really fair that if I use it as a point "its not canon" and dismissed. If someone who liked the movie does to make their point then no big deal. Kind of a double standard there.

 

Also,

You could shoot it from a ship as a missile at another ship/base/small moon/death star/star killer base.

 

umm because Rebels IS canon? Why would say it isn't canon? I don't see how there is a double standered here I have never said Rebels isn't canon. I'm not sure what you are getting at.

 

You would design it for its purpose.. Look what we do with missiles. The different payloads, speeds and sizes. It would not be inconceivable for this to be a thing. I mean, they kind of opened the door up for it. Just like they opened the door for force users to now be superman in space.

 

Do you understand why it did so much damage? It's simple physics its F=MA we have seen Star destroyers crash into each other and rip each other apart. We have seen the Super Star Destetroyer in ROTJ slowly plow into the Death Star causing massive damage.

 

The reason this was effective was because it was a massive ship moving at light speed right into the other ship. If it had been allowed to slowly move into the Supremecy it still woudl have ripped into it as well as destroying itself. It wouldn't have gotten as far but that's simple physics.

 

Think of a car crash. A car plowing into another car going going 90 MPH is going to do more damage then one going 15 MPH.

 

That's it....

 

In the old EU and other Sci Fi there are Mass Drivers where you propel a asteroid or something of great mass really fast at a target. Sure it's deadly but its nothing new.

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ok what Adm rial said that? Show me the quote

 

 

 

It was from a Series on the history channel about maritime warfare and carriers... that is why I said I would differ.

 

so you are talking WW2. Problem being Carriers didn't have bombers on them. Sure the P51 could have A bomb but we didn't carry bombers on carriers due to not having enough runway. This leads to the whole Doolittle Raiders where they had specially stripped down bombers to make a long range attack on Japan.

 

This conversation is based around SW - this portion has nothing to do with carriers, it had to do with Japanese fighter planes flying into heavily manned bombers. It is just an example. And it is more about pre-missile era.

Yeah your idea or theory never happend. They also were never sent to specifiaclly crash into a carrier. They did it as a last resort.

Good deal, - but that was before missiles. which is essentially what I am talking about when talking about running things into other things at lightspeed.

 

 

1. So you are talking about a lot more resources then just a missle.

 

 

Missiles come in all shapes and sizes.

 

2

No it's not we see that by the fact that ships is the same height as the Supremecy hence the fact it cleaves it in half

 

3.

 

No its not speculation we see the First order turn all guns on the ship. it survives due to its shielding and armor.

 

Also notice how in Star Wars every time before a jump to light speed the ship slows down almost to a stop before jumping? You can't jump to light speed while manuvering or going really fast.

 

 

4.

 

umm because Rebels IS canon? Why would say it isn't canon? I don't see how there is a double standered here I have never said Rebels isn't canon. I'm not sure what you are getting at.

 

Interesting... hard to tell who I am talking to, as I was talking to someone else about Why Luke did not show up for real on that "salt" planet and take out the barrage of ATATs. As there was a scene in Rebels where Obi actually did just that. Almost acting as if he was in the matrix and used the force to deflect several rounds fired at him at once.

 

Do you understand why it did so much damage? It's simple physics its F=MA we have seen Star destroyers crash into each other and rip each other apart. We have seen the Super Star Destetroyer in ROTJ slowly plow into the Death Star causing massive damage.

This is StarWars. You are injecting physics into a movie that has bombs "dropping" in outer space. That being said none of those ships were at light-speed or jumping like Haldo did.

 

The reason this was effective was because it was a massive ship moving at light speed right into the other ship. If it had been allowed to slowly move into the Supremecy it still woudl have ripped into it as well as destroying itself. It wouldn't have gotten as far but that's simple physics.

 

Again, using physics to explain starwars. I mean if they had used a lightspeed capable missile in the movie would you then be arguing against it? Also, this is still speculation. As I said, you could have a potent warhead on that missile. The size would not matter. Imagine a nuclear warhead (or seismic charges) on a lightspeed capable missile.

 

Think of a car crash. A car plowing into another car going going 90 MPH is going to do more damage then one going 15 MPH.

That's it....

Not really as we know an explosive on a baby stroller could take out a car. However, imagine that stroller going lightspeed and having an explosive device.

In the old EU and other Sci Fi there are Mass Drivers where you propel a asteroid or something of great mass really fast at a target. Sure it's deadly but its nothing new.

The old EU is not canon and neither is other sci-fi. Would you allow me to use old EU or other Sci-Fi to prove a point in the Starwars universe? So it is new to the current canon.

 

Imagine a computer controlled lightspeed capable missile with a seismic charge on it.

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Interesting... hard to tell who I am talking to, as I was talking to someone else about Why Luke did not show up for real on that "salt" planet and take out the barrage of ATATs. As there was a scene in Rebels where Obi actually did just that. Almost acting as if he was in the matrix and used the force to deflect several rounds fired at him at once.

 

That was probably me, but the video you had linked of Obi-wan was from the non-canon Clone Wars mini-series. You linked nothing from Rebels and I saw nothing in Obi-wan’s history on Wookiepediea to back up your claim. In that clip though, he stopped fire....from a bounty hunter.

 

 

This is StarWars. You are injecting physics into a movie that has bombs "dropping" in outer space. That being said none of those ships were at light-speed or jumping like Haldo did.

 

Dropping bombs..via magnetics...which also ensurd the bombs hit their targets.

 

Again, using physics to explain starwars. I mean if they had used a lightspeed capable missile in the movie would you then be arguing against it? Also, this is still speculation. As I said, you could have a potent warhead on that missile. The size would not matter. Imagine a nuclear warhead (or seismic charges) on a lightspeed capable missile.

 

Except it’s only lightspeed to enter hyperspace. Activate it too soon and you miss your target because it enters hyperspace and passes through. Too late and you just wasted a hyperdrive. At that point you moght as well just launch a regular missile.

 

Don’t forget that in Rogue One, strike fighters jumped to lightspeed into Vader’s ship and just exploded. Size matters, and velocity matters, as you have to hit at just the right time to get Holdo’s effect, which could be a microsecond of difference.

 

Not really as we know an explosive on a baby stroller could take out a car. However, imagine that stroller going lightspeed and having an explosive device.

 

Higher risk of missing the target.

 

The old EU is not canon and neither is other sci-fi. Would you allow me to use old EU or other Sci-Fi to prove a point in the Starwars universe? So it is new to the current canon.

 

Imagine a computer controlled lightspeed capable missile with a seismic charge on it.

 

Again, it’s a waste of a hyperdrive, which who knows how much they cost. I mean the Empire only really had them on their big ships. TIE ships were only short range. I’m honestly confused as to how things like Luke’s X-Wing, a Rebel Alliance fighter ship, had a hyperdrive when Imperial fighters did not.

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The discussion and one thing NuSeC said made me think.

He said, I quote:

The sad part is, this is my thoughts immediately after watching the scene and the hole that it creates in other films both ahead of the franchise and behind it. I am a single observer, to suggest I thought of something that nobody in the SW universe thought of is well... where the actual issues arise.

 

I have a question, NuSeC: Did you ever think about it before the scene, like, ever?

If the answer is no, then why? Was it because the idea never came to you? Or because you dismissed it for being unlikely to work? Or any other reason?

 

My point being: I've never seen that tactic get brought up by anyone before even in Legends where it was very much established that Hyperspace still allowed for "physical interactions" between light-speed ships and the real world. Maybe that's an indication of how much, in universe and out of universe, that tactic is unreliable and sub-optimal? And that strengthen the idea that Holdo's plan was really a last ditch effort (Otherwise she'd have rammed the Supremacy as soon as the shuttles had left, her life be damned.) and she didn't even expect it to work "that well" (Sadly she won't be around to comment on it.)

 

You are injecting physics into a movie that has bombs "dropping" in outer space.

 

Need to address this quickly: That's an invalid point. First, the rails from the bombers are magnetized to "propel" the bombs. Second, there's an artificial gravity in the bomber itself so it would also build up a baseline speed. Third, once it's going, it's not going to float away, it will keep it's momentum until it hits something. The bombs don't accelerate in the movie (Or at least it didn't seem like they did on the second viewing) so there's absolutely zero error here.

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That was probably me, but the video you had linked of Obi-wan was from the non-canon Clone Wars mini-series. You linked nothing from Rebels and I saw nothing in Obi-wan’s history on Wookiepediea to back up your claim. In that clip though, he stopped fire....from a bounty hunter..

 

OK so strictly canon for you. good deal. :D

 

Dropping bombs..via magnetics...which also ensurd the bombs hit their targets.

Canon or are you making it up?

 

Except it’s only lightspeed to enter hyperspace. Activate it too soon and you miss your target because it enters hyperspace and passes through. Too late and you just wasted a hyperdrive. At that point you moght as well just launch a regular missile.

We are talking about something made and build to hit its target. You would have guidance controls. Haldo timed it out... I am sure a computer built for just that task could do an equally good job.

 

 

Don’t forget that in Rogue One, strike fighters jumped to lightspeed into Vader’s ship and just exploded. Size matters, and velocity matters, as you have to hit at just the right time to get Holdo’s effect, which could be a microsecond of difference.

Was it size or was it the fact they engaged it too close to an object? Range is what seems key here more than any other factor. And again, computer controlled.

 

Higher risk of missing the target.

...then what?

Again, it’s a waste of a hyperdrive, which who knows how much they cost. I mean the Empire only really had them on their big ships. TIE ships were only short range. I’m honestly confused as to how things like Luke’s X-Wing, a Rebel Alliance fighter ship, had a hyperdrive when Imperial fighters did not.

 

Well there you go, could not be all that expensive, it was on a bunch of the smaller rebel ships... so there we go Basically make an x-wing sized, hyperspace capable, seismic charged warhead and computer controlled missile :D

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