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A solution for Solo/Group Ranked disparity for Season 11 rewards

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
A solution for Solo/Group Ranked disparity for Season 11 rewards

Sertar's Avatar


Sertar
08.15.2019 , 01:48 AM | #1
Hello players and developers,

Season 11 is gonna end soon™, so it’s time to take a look at the Leaderboards to see what reward brackets would make sense and check out the current state of Top 3 spots. One note beforehand: Season 11 had the same rules and matchmaking system in Solo Ranked that we had in Season 10, so we have to use the Season 10 reward breakdown as guideline.

First of all we can see a huge activity difference between Solo Ranked and Group Ranked. In fact, Group Ranked in Season 11 is the most dead it has ever been. It rarely ever popped on only a few servers so competition was extremely low already and on top of that a big chunk of the games played are „mixed teams“ „playing vs friends“ maybe with maybe without a little bit of rating shenanigans. So what do we end up with? Elo numbers with the smallest meaningfulness we have seen in this game so far.

So at first I would find it tempting to just don’t give any rewards for Group Ranked. Or at least no Top 3s, as you see some players sitting on Top 3 spots with less than 1500 Elo and less than 20 wins. That is just not even close to be in line with Group Ranked Top 3s of S9 and S10 and it’s also not in line with Solo Ranked Top 3s in S11. The idea of not giving out Top 3s in Group Ranked was actually already brought up in this thread: here

But I thought about this for a while and I think I found a very elegant way to breakdown tiers without having to create differences between Solo and Group Ranked, and also still reward the players that played Group Ranked legit and as actively as possible:


Bronze Tier - requirement: Rating 1250-1399

Silver Tier - requirement: Rating 1400-1549 and 20+ WINS

Gold Tier - requirement: Rating 1550+ and 40+ WINS

Top 3 - requirement: Rating 1600+ and 60+ WINS
, and obviously only the 3 highest rated characters that meet these requirements get Top 3 rewards. If less than 3 players meet this requirement the Top 3 title in this category (e.g. Mercenary Group Ranked) will NOT be given out 3 times!


Let me know what you guys think, especially @MikeBradley, but this is the most elegant and easy to implement solution I can think of, that gives the most players the rewards they truly earn and can feel proud of, and at the same time eliminates a lot of wintraded Golds and Top 3s that revolve around utilizing placement games for „low amount of games, high amount of elo“.

Please get rid of placement games in S12 btw, thanks. Because then there is no more need to look at every person that got 1550 with only 15 wins, if that is „legit and just lucky“ or straight up wintraded within one night. Either way not worthy of Gold rewards, that’s why a minimum amount of wins is a good additional requirement to Silver and Gold Tier too, not only Top 3.

Looking forward to get feedback on this, especially some in yellow color.

Cheers

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
08.15.2019 , 04:29 AM | #2
I like the idea of no Top 3s for group ranked that makes perfect sence. What is good is also the idea of 40+ wins for rewards. I dont agree with the Tiers, I would keep the tiers as in Season 10 cause of how the leaderboards look like.
Merovejec
7 days of being a sub, try it! Refferal Link
Achievements 5.10 69015

omaan's Avatar


omaan
08.15.2019 , 06:59 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Sertar View Post
Hello players and developers,

Season 11 is gonna end soon™, so it’s time to take a look at the Leaderboards to see what reward brackets would make sense and check out the current state of Top 3 spots. One note beforehand: Season 11 had the same rules and matchmaking system in Solo Ranked that we had in Season 10, so we have to use the Season 10 reward breakdown as guideline.

First of all we can see a huge activity difference between Solo Ranked and Group Ranked. In fact, Group Ranked in Season 11 is the most dead it has ever been. It rarely ever popped on only a few servers so competition was extremely low already and on top of that a big chunk of the games played are „mixed teams“ „playing vs friends“ maybe with maybe without a little bit of rating shenanigans. So what do we end up with? Elo numbers with the smallest meaningfulness we have seen in this game so far.

So at first I would find it tempting to just don’t give any rewards for Group Ranked. Or at least no Top 3s, as you see some players sitting on Top 3 spots with less than 1500 Elo and less than 20 wins. That is just not even close to be in line with Group Ranked Top 3s of S9 and S10 and it’s also not in line with Solo Ranked Top 3s in S11. The idea of not giving out Top 3s in Group Ranked was actually already brought up in this thread: here

But I thought about this for a while and I think I found a very elegant way to breakdown tiers without having to create differences between Solo and Group Ranked, and also still reward the players that played Group Ranked legit and as actively as possible:


Bronze Tier - requirement: Rating 1250-1399

Silver Tier - requirement: Rating 1400-1549 and 20+ WINS

Gold Tier - requirement: Rating 1550+ and 40+ WINS

Top 3 - requirement: Rating 1600+ and 60+ WINS
, and obviously only the 3 highest rated characters that meet these requirements get Top 3 rewards. If less than 3 players meet this requirement the Top 3 title in this category (e.g. Mercenary Group Ranked) will NOT be given out 3 times!


Let me know what you guys think, especially @MikeBradley, but this is the most elegant and easy to implement solution I can think of, that gives the most players the rewards they truly earn and can feel proud of, and at the same time eliminates a lot of wintraded Golds and Top 3s that revolve around utilizing placement games for „low amount of games, high amount of elo“.

Please get rid of placement games in S12 btw, thanks. Because then there is no more need to look at every person that got 1550 with only 15 wins, if that is „legit and just lucky“ or straight up wintraded within one night. Either way not worthy of Gold rewards, that’s why a minimum amount of wins is a good additional requirement to Silver and Gold Tier too, not only Top 3.

Looking forward to get feedback on this, especially some in yellow color.

Cheers
I fully support not giving top 3 rewards to team ranked players unless they have 60+ games and 1600 + elo. In fact 4 of my friends while speaking in discord didn't even hide they asked their guild mates , pve mates to queue against them and wintraded (since these "mates") barely did anything in those fights and didnt try to win. This is not fair and i doubt devs can punish them since such wintrade is too subtle and doesnt include any bots. At least 4 players wintraded their 10-25 games against different combinations of their pve and guild mates and iam more than sure there are many more

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
08.15.2019 , 08:13 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Sertar View Post
Gold Tier - requirement: Rating 1550+ and 40+ WINS
I like the rest of your post but why 1550 and not 1500 like last season? You trying to screw me out of gold???

jk But really, keep it at 1500 plox

Delani's Avatar


Delani
08.15.2019 , 06:34 PM | #5
TBH, they should sell class titles

Zimlon's Avatar


Zimlon
08.16.2019 , 11:21 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
I like the idea of no Top 3s for group ranked that makes perfect sence. What is good is also the idea of 40+ wins for rewards. I dont agree with the Tiers, I would keep the tiers as in Season 10 cause of how the leaderboards look like.
I really agree with you! The tiers should just be where they were in S10!

Let me point out why:

1) The lowered tiers in S10 were the reason that more players actually have begun or restarted their solo ranked career, because they saw that gold elo is available for normal players who don't have the time to spend like 20 hours a day with queuing for solo ranked.

2) Atm group ranked is dead af and no one is playing it. So it's obvious that more people have characters over 1500+ in solo ranked. Just maths, dudes.

3) The fact that more people are having the gold elo so far is because that the season has been lasting too long yet like it is the same in every season. More time = more people getting gold elo.

4) You should not forget, that many people were fighting and grinding so hard to get gold elo like 1500. I know many guys who played like 300 + games and working their way up step by step, getting A BIG HIT OF THOSE THROWERS AND TROLLERS every and every time.

5) Setting those tiers up again like they always do would trigger the playerbase, which is not that big in ranked gameplay so far, in a bad way. They need every subscription and to point it out, setting those tiers up would cause a massive bye-bye-train for many players getting hits in the face by the developers every time.

6) Having those people crying about that gold elo has to be "exclusive" for somehow cannot be the point to set it up. Those people are the players who have like 5 characters in gold elo in every season farming everyone. It does not seem too hard for them to get gold, but like i said before, many people don't have that amount of free time to grind and grind and grind. And, obviously, ranked cannot be that competitive atm having trollers, traders and throwers ruining the days of players who just wanna climb in a fair way. There are some other issues that have to be fixed for sure. And furthermore i know manye very good players who play in a fair way and don't get to 1500 so far, having like 100000000 games done yet.

7) If you breakdown the numbers of people having gold atm to the amount of the last given servers wordlwide, it seems to be okay to have those numbers. To this you can see what classes are more played atm and don't trigger the playerbase like Sins or Powertechs (low number in gold elo).

Please bioware, be clever!

LukeSkyPoulet's Avatar


LukeSkyPoulet
08.16.2019 , 05:54 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Delani View Post
TBH, they should sell class titles
I think, if they want, they should sell bronze, silver and gold titles but not the top 3 titles.
If you are the top 3 , It means that you are a good player ( or a wintrader ) but the title is unique so it shouldn't be sold.

I agree with Mero, they should take s10 tiers.

Delani's Avatar


Delani
08.17.2019 , 07:31 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by LukeSkyPoulet View Post
I think, if they want, they should sell bronze, silver and gold titles but not the top 3 titles.
If you are the top 3 , It means that you are a good player ( or a wintrader ) but the title is unique so it shouldn't be sold.

I agree with Mero, they should take s10 tiers.
The flair is more unique than the title, it often stands out.

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
08.18.2019 , 08:55 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Delani View Post
The flair is more unique than the title, it often stands out.
I think the flairs are the reason why many go for ranked now, its true, it looks nice.
Merovejec
7 days of being a sub, try it! Refferal Link
Achievements 5.10 69015

Sertar's Avatar


Sertar
08.30.2019 , 05:46 AM | #10
Hello developers again,
in the latest stream you said that Tier Brackets depend on Player ELO distribution, so I'm not gonna bother with the example numbers I used anymore. But please introduce a WIN requirement to at least Gold and Top 3 rewards! It's important that it is a WIN requirement and NOT a GAMES PLAYED requirement (because then people could 10-0 their Gold (lets say 1500) to then stuck their way to e.g. 10-50 (lets say that is 910) and would still get Gold rewards because of their 1500 highest. It has to be a WIN requirement.

Here once again my suggestion:

Bronze Tier - requirement: Rating XYZ

Silver Tier - requirement: Rating XYZ and 20+ WINS

Gold Tier - requirement: Rating XYZ and 40+ WINS

Top 3 - requirement: Rating 1600+ and 60+ WINS
, and obviously only the 3 highest rated characters that meet these requirements get Top 3 rewards. If less than 3 players meet these requirements the Top 3 title in this category (e.g. Mercenary Group Ranked) should NOT be given out 3 times!

Once again, the main purpose is to respect the huge disparity between Solo and Group Ranked activity in S11, while still rewarding the people that actively played Group Ranked while it popped. In addition, for Solo Ranked it rewards consistent play and eliminates fast "one night trade" Golds or Top 3s.

Just do it. This can not be hard to implement.

Everyone that agrees, feel free to push and bump this thread.