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So TOXIC In Ranked Warzone Devs Need To Look Into This

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
So TOXIC In Ranked Warzone Devs Need To Look Into This

Dowillia's Avatar


Dowillia
08.13.2019 , 11:56 PM | #1
Satele Shan Server

I play pvp all the time in the Unranked Warzones and I consider myself not to bad. I am not the best but neither am I the worse player so before you say anything and attempt to blame me for lousy playing like this forum usually does, instead of using constructive criticism, keep that in mind. In addition the gear excuse does not cut it either because I am fully geared with the highest rating including augments. And Yes I do know what I am doing. Every single time I have gone into Ranked Warzone it has been extremely unpleasant due to negative bullying behaviour of other players. If they are not swearing at you with a constant stream of curse words and other forms of abusive words, then they are blaming you for some other absurd reason. Even if the team I am on wins. If It is not happening to me on the team then it is happening to another member on the same team. Either way you can't win.

Strangely enough I am finding most of the players who are in Ranked are also Imperial Players. Definitely outnumbered. There are always more imperials than pubs fighting in Ranked Warzone. I do not have a problem with that but I do not appreciate the Toxic Bullying and Abusive Behaviour that is too often displayed in Ranked Warzone. This is very discouraging to see that it is allowed to go on and I can see why people get turned off from even trying it after the initial experience. The devs really need to do something about this because it is absolutely ridiculous. It is online bullying and its nasty and its abusive. In the meantime I shall continue to report this behaviour whenever I am in Ranked Warzone because that is about all I can do atm. People are in this game to have fun, they are not in this game to get bullied and abused by other players who have to big of an ego and ruin it for everyone else!

Keep in mind I have not checked back into Ranked Warzone since about mid July, because it has been so disgusting and also since Mike Bradley July PVP Report which actually indicated there were some other abuses going on as well that resulted in suspension of accounts, no suprise there , maybe things have changed since then, but I am highly doubting it. Nuff Said.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.14.2019 , 08:53 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
1.) Competitive gameplay isn't an excuse for people being toxic aholes.

2.) Saying you think bioware shouldn't have any say on how they deal with its toxic players is just pure insanity. They have every right to filter out the people who are unproductive and filtering those people out is not censoring.

3.)Saying he's selfish for wanting a competitive environment that has actual sportsmanship is one of the reasons why new players wont venture into ranked. Ya'll are part of the problem by pretending toxicity is no big deal and just "trash talk", yet most so called trash talking is just straight up attacking. Telling someone not to queue because "reasons" and then getting mad that ranked queue is dead is the most hilarious and the most sad thing I've ever watched in this community.

4.) Free speech protects you from government prosecution. It doesn't protect you from the consequences of being a total jerk within the private sector, nor should it.
Amen

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
08.14.2019 , 09:16 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
People play ranked for competitive gameplay. They don't play ranked to particularly coddle you and your emotions.

You don't have any say over what other people say, nor should Bioware in my opinion. If you don't like what people are saying to you, there is already a built-in tool for that: the ignore list. If they're opposite faction and you just can't handle it, turn off chat. But stop trying to censor people because they offend you. Can't you see how selfish and stupid that is?

Disclaimer: I don't even play on SS, but I'd be willing to bet anything that the vast majority of stuff said is not "bullying" or "abuse," it's just normal competitive **** talking that you'd see in any online game. Seeing posts like this time after time really makes me sick. Remember, I say all this as a liberal who believes strongly in free speech.
This is a tragically bad take. It isnt about coddling, nobody has asked to be coddled, they just expect you to not be a douche in a game. There's miles of middle ground in between as options.
Free speech has consequences, the old fire in a crowded theater argument, in this case your freedom to be an idiot results in killing the game mode. How many posts like this do we need to see before people figure out they ARE the problem.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
Referral link, cause why not: http://www.swtor.com/r/wdLxth

Csjbo's Avatar


Csjbo
08.14.2019 , 09:21 AM | #4
SR is, at its heart, competitive and competition can bring out the best...and the worst in people. It's just something that you're going to have to cope with if you want to queue and not lose sanity/heart because not everyone queues SR just for 'fun'. Of course, there are some that take trash-talk or criticism too far, and those should get reported as I have seen such players get banned (albeit temporarily) for their behavior. From my experience however, the queue is not as toxic as it was in seasons past.

I understand how unpleasant SR can be to those who are either (or both) new to SR or far from an expert in their class. Ask anyone who's at the top of the leaderboards how they started and I guarantee most of them will say they had to suffer from similar growing pains as well. If toxicity becomes too much to bear, just put the bad apples on your ignore list, ask/whisper another teammate what the instructions are and keep grinding away.

The main problem that I have with imploring the Devs to 'crack down' on toxicity is that the term is nebulous. What is toxic to one may not be considered so to someone else, making it impossible for a group of Devs to discern such behavior responsibly and reliably.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
08.14.2019 , 09:26 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
This is a tragically bad take. It isnt about coddling, nobody has asked to be coddled, they just expect you to not be a douche in a game. There's miles of middle ground in between as options.
Free speech has consequences, the old fire in a crowded theater argument, in this case your freedom to be an idiot results in killing the game mode. How many posts like this do we need to see before people figure out they ARE the problem.
These are two totally separate arguments though. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that people being toxic in ranked is leading to less people playing it, so if the ranked players want it to grow, they should be less "toxic". That's a reasonable opinion, and it might be right, though I don't think it is.

The original poster and the other poster I replied to think that such ranked "toxicity" should be actively monitored and punished by Bioware. That is a totally different matter, and that is what I'm forcefully arguing against. Just because someone's feelings got hurt does not justify banning people. Again, if you think someone's speech is bad, the best solution is more speech, not censorship. And if banning people whose speech you don't like isn't censorship, I don't know what is.

Also, and this shouldn't need to be said but let me be clear, I am not one of the toxic people in ranked that OP was referencing. I usually don't say anything in ranked beyond calling a strat. Sometimes if someone is egregiously bad in many ranked games in a row, I'll say something tame like "stop queueing ranked until you learn how to use your dcds in regs" or something like that. Others are for more harsh, but that's up to them. And if that does lead to less people playing ranked, so be it. Censoring such people would be a far greater wrong than a dead ranked queue.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
08.14.2019 , 09:28 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Csjbo View Post
SR is, at its heart, competitive and competition can bring out the best...and the worst in people. It's just something that you're going to have to cope with if you want to queue and not lose sanity/heart because not everyone queues SR just for 'fun'. Of course, there are some that take trash-talk or criticism too far, and those should get reported as I have seen such players get banned (albeit temporarily) for their behavior. From my experience however, the queue is not as toxic as it was in seasons past.

I understand how unpleasant SR can be to those who are either (or both) new to SR or far from an expert in their class. Ask anyone who's at the top of the leaderboards how they started and I guarantee most of them will say they had to suffer from similar growing pains as well. If toxicity becomes too much to bear, just put the bad apples on your ignore list, ask/whisper another teammate what the instructions are and keep grinding away.

The main problem that I have with imploring the Devs to 'crack down' on toxicity is that the term is nebulous. What is toxic to one may not be considered so to someone else, making it impossible for a group of Devs to discern such behavior responsibly and reliably.
Well put.

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
08.14.2019 , 10:01 AM | #7
"Toxic" messages are already against the rules of conduct as put forth by bioware...

https://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

Quote:
To keep the Service a compliant, fun, fair and safe gaming environment for everyone, you may not engage in any of the following behavior:...
Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything to another player that is unwanted. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players,
Pretty clear to me that it actually is against the rules to even insult people "a little".

Of course, bioware doesn't enforce any of it. So it might as well not exist. [Edit: well, my bad. As reported by a few other people after this message, I guess bioware DOES sometimes take action against reported people. So I guess continue reporting.]

Slippery When'wet, FistFullOfCandy - SF

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
08.14.2019 , 10:37 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
Of course, bioware doesn't enforce any of it. So it might as well not exist.
Actually, as Csjbo mentioned, Bioware already does enforce it sometimes. Remember that person that kicked you from a ranked game a while back? He recently got banned for a week for constantly being an ******e to people. Another person got permabanned a while ago for being constantly racist and using the n-word a lot. So in extreme cases, Bioware is punishing people, and I'm not even a big fan of that, but as long as it's rare and takes a lot of reports, I'm okay with it.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
08.14.2019 , 10:47 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
1. **** talking is an inherent part of online competitive gameplay. There are certainly lines that can be crossed, such as actual threats and racial slurs, but for the most part the concept of "toxicity" is vastly overrated.

2. I never said Bioware didn't have the right to do it. It's their game, they can do whatever they want. I said they shouldn't, as in, it would be a bad thing for them to do.

3. Pure nonsense. Toxicity is no big deal. Those who think it is don't belong in ranked. I never get mad that the queue is dead, because it's not dead. And if it was, I still wouldn't be mad or begging people in chat. I want people in ranked that can actually compete in ranked.

4. I'm completely aware of what the First Amendment protects and what it doesn't. I never said that it had power over Bioware, but Bioware would do well to maintain the principles of free speech as much as possible. The best counter to what you consider bad speech is good speech, not censorship.

If you think someone is acting in a "toxic" manner, by all means, call them out. Tell them why you think they're wrong. Tell everyone else why you think they're wrong. Those are the kinds of consequences one should expect if you talk trash a lot, not suspensions or bans.
I agree with JMA. Grow a thicker skin. If online toxicity hurts you, I'd hate to see you cope with any serious RL issues.

PS - BW supplies you with the tools you need to combat online toxicity: the ignore function. You don't have to read any of their chat. Additionally, you can turn off chat during matches. 🤷*♂️
-Beruhl, NiM Space Barbie (ง︡'-'︠)ง
(\/)(Ö,,,,Ö)(\/) ¦̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱(̢ ̡͇̅└͇̅┘͇̅ (▤8כ−◦
i do what i want major league memes can i borrow a stim?

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
08.14.2019 , 10:51 AM | #10
I'm giggling at a mental image of OP trying to play an online shooter where you get cursed out by 13 year olds
-Beruhl, NiM Space Barbie (ง︡'-'︠)ง
(\/)(Ö,,,,Ö)(\/) ¦̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱(̢ ̡͇̅└͇̅┘͇̅ (▤8כ−◦
i do what i want major league memes can i borrow a stim?