Jump to content

A Summary of Increased Repair Cost Problems (for BW/EA)


Daemonson

Recommended Posts

There is two things you don't mess with in this world .

 

1) A man's woman

2) A man's wallet

 

I see constantly since EA was voted the worst business in America there executives constantly trying to spin it and wondering why they got that designation . Yet time and time again they do things over and over to piss off there paying customers . I stopped buying EA sports games 10 years ago and I used to buy them all , I stopped buying any title that was published by EA 6 years ago . They dissolved one of my favorite video game companies Origin ( Maker of the Wing Commander Series ) and used its name for there piss poor steam look alike . Then they bought out one of my favorite video game companies of all time Bioware and there games have been subpar ever since .

 

I made an exception because I loved mmos , and I loved Knights of the Old Republic . I have been here since the first wave of Early Access , a collectors edition adopter . I have had alot of fun with this game but this change is unacceptable . When I have to work for EA running dailies to enjoy the fun aspect of there game ( raiding ) is when its time to hang it up . You already get my $15 a month your not gonna get all my time working for you doing montonous things .

 

When the best thing you have to offer your playerbase is new dailies , you have FAILED as a game designer .

 

This was the last straw .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

This was the last straw .

 

Oh, look, another "last straw" moment. :(

 

Proof that you don't need to make one big mistake to destroy the fun in your game - you can do it through a lot of little ones, too. Death by 1,000 cuts.

 

Of course there's probably a big mistake or two behind the scenes somewhere. Like making an MBA who doesn't know or care two spits about gamers the over-boss of the game and assigning as lead the guy who's most famous for destroying another MMO, but still... :rolleyes:

 

 

I'm starting to suspect the intent of this change was to stop people buying BiS gear off the GTN. They just went too far.

 

In other words, you're giving EA credit for thinking ahead and planning on this one? I think you're giving them way too much credit.

Edited by DarthTHC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I think this is more of a mindset issue, if you think anything other than a raid is a grind then you will hate any obstacle to doing a raid, if you play to have fun and enjoy yourself, then you will not care about a little extra incentive to avoid death.

 

 

 

This is more of a mindset issue. One of the most common things I'm seeing in this thread is the "It's a game. I should be able to do only the 'fun' stuff. I refuse to do anything I see as 'work'." That is a mindset. More specifically, that is an entitled mindset. If a player is just sitting in fleet doing nothing but talking in general chat while waiting for an LFG to pop, when he could be out doing a few dailies while waiting, is that player "a casual player with no time to do grind dailies" or is that player an "entitled player who has time to earn a few credits but refuses to do so"?

 

A few posts back, there was a poster who said he waited 1.5 hours for an HM FP to pop. What did he do doing that 1.5 hours? I don't know. He didn't say. I would not be surprised to find out he sat on the fleet typing in chat. I'm not saying that he did sit on fleet, only that I would not be surprised if he did. I do know that in that 1.5 hours, he could have completed at least 2 planets worth of dailies and earned well over 100k, probably closer to 200k. He didn't have to give up a night of raiding, or even a day of HM FP's. All he would have been doing is using the time he was already waiting to earn a few credits.

 

There are plenty of casual players who have limited time who are able to find the means to be able to afford these new higher repair costs. That does not make them hardore, or no-lifers.

 

That said, EA/BW does need to fix the bug that is causing repair costs to be based on the value of the shell.

Edited by Ratajack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I did my usual thing yesterday. I logged in to participate in the Ilum event. I haven't been overly active lately, because the game's starting to get boring for me. Farming dailies, then blowing all of the cash on stuff on the GTN is pretty common for me. I don't have lot of time to spend on this game, so my credits never usually get higher than 500k. That being said, I went a step further yesterday, and actually did Section X as well for a change. Not common for me to run more than one area of dailies, because it's boring and repetitive. I decided to try out this new boss for the first time yesterday. I was invited to a 16-man run on Xeno, and I went with it. We had a goofball in the group who decided he needed to stealth in and stand under the boss while we were getting organized to start, and obviously, he caused a premature pull, and wiped the group that was inside. This happened twice. The second time I wasn't inside the instance yet, so I missed out. After reforming the group, and attempting the boss for what would have been the third time, (second for me because I was locked out of the second), we defeated him after another wipe.

 

I repaired twice. I had 30k credits to my name before attempting Xeno. I had no idea of the new repair costs. After repairing TWICE!!!!!!!!!, I was left with less than 5k.

 

This is not how it's supposed to be. I used to be able to wipe at least 4-5 times on that amount of credits. And now that I'm broke, I can't afford to repair anything, and I'm sitting with a 21k repair bill, and no money to fix it. I have to wait another day, to do more dailies, and probably break more of my gear, just to be able to fix it. This is stupid. And not to mention, defeats the purpose of the dailies in the first place.

 

I'm casual, and I'm bored of the dailies that we have. I'm sick of the bugs that aren't fixed. I'm tired of hearing the same old "We are aware of the problem and are working on a solution." or "We have passed it along to our devs and expect this to be dealt with soon."

 

I've started playing Star Trek Online, because it's smaller, performs better on my machine, looks way better, and has a MUCH better free-to-play model. I don't have to pay, but I can do everything else that my friends are doing, without any restrictions. I'm pointing this out, because I'm serious! I'm BORED with the dailies. I'm TIRED of being FORCED to do them CONSTANTLY!!!!

 

This repair cost is STUPID. I'm wearing the same Columi Shells that I've had since I picked them up. I'm using the same damn Campaign armorings I've had since they became available for purchase with Black Hole Commendations. I haven't changed ANYTHING!! Why am I being penalized?

 

And you (EA) expect me to just suck it up? Here's a news flash for you. Games are supposed to be fun. When they stop being fun, they aren't games anymore, they're jobs or chores. This game has turned into a chore. I don't want to continue to pay to do chores. I should be getting PAID to do them.

 

I'm not even a hardcore raider, but I lead the raids for our guild. I can't put up with this. My guild is pissed because I haven't bothered to log in to raid because I can't afford it anymore. This is rediculous.

 

I don't care what repair costs were for other people, that's none of my business. My repair costs have now exceeded what I typically farm in a week. The game is no longer enjoyable, or playable for me. I'm not going to log in until this is fixed. I have no reason to. If I want to do chores all day for no return, I'll go clean my son's room.

 

Sorry for the rant, but that's my two cents. I'm just upset, because I've really enjoyed playing this game until now, and I just can't enjoy it anymore. It's not fun to be broke and unable to do anything about it. I don't want to unsub, like so many people keep saying that they want to do, but I may not be able to afford this game for much longer, hence the long post. I want my point to be taken seriously, that's all. I WANT THIS GAME TO BE ALL THAT IT CAN BE AND MORE!! I'm a pro, not a con! I love this game and want to see it succeed! Please help us out!

Edited by VassagoOmega
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In other words, you're giving EA credit for thinking ahead and planning on this one? I think you're giving them way too much credit.

 

Hey, now! Accusing me of complimenting EA is tantamount to libel! I'm actually giving Bioware the credit (for taking my credits...). EA just cares about the bottom line. I seriously doubt they have much of a hand in the day-to-day balance decisions the dev team makes.

 

A few posts back, there was a poster who said he waited 1.5 hours for an HM FP to pop. What did he do doing that 1.5 hours? I don't know. He didn't say. I would not be surprised to find out he sat on the fleet typing in chat. I'm not saying that he did sit on fleet, only that I would not be surprised if he did. I do know that in that 1.5 hours, he could have completed at least 2 planets worth of dailies and earned well over 100k, probably closer to 200k. He didn't have to give up a night of raiding, or even a day of HM FP's. All he would have been doing is using the time he was already waiting to earn a few credits.

 

Remember when we used to be able to queue for a flashpoint and then do warzones while we waited? You know warzones, those things that are fun, award credits, and don't cost anything. I miss those times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure there is a bug and the increases should not be as big as they are but I'm only talking about levelling and not end game. So in answer to your suggestion, no thanks, I've said my piece but as you can only see my tests as invalid, or lies, as they don't support your cause, it shows really that you are not interested in the truth only furthering your agenda on wanting a return to pre 1.7 level repairs. Good luck with the crusade.

 

Anyone that has ever dealt with science or research understands that your test must be repeatable by others. Others are giving different results, which throws doubt on your conclusions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is more of a mindset issue. One of the most common things I'm seeing in this thread is the "It's a game. I should be able to do only the 'fun' stuff. I refuse to do anything I see as 'work'." That is a mindset. More specifically, that is an entitled mindset.

 

It's so fun to throw that word around, isn't it? It's a great word. A word that's fun to use as an insult because people think it makes them sound like "smart" politicians.

 

But you're using the word incorrectly.

 

You see, here in SWTOR, we players - most of the ones complaining about this "bug" "fix" - PAY to play the game. It's a service we pay a company for.

 

Now "entitled" means the expectation of getting something for NOTHING. For reference, imagine a woman sitting on a couch in government funded housing eating canned frosting the government paid for, talking on the cell phone the government paid for, watching Oprah, and gestating her 9th out-of-wedlock baby the father for whom she cannot identify because there are simply too many candidates, and for which the government will pay all medical costs. THAT is entitlement.

 

That's not how we're thinking. We want to keep PAYING our money to play this game. However, we do not want to PAY for a game that FORCES us to do tedious, boring, unchallenging things for an inordinate amount of time just so we can get to the FUN part of the game for us, which is the challenge of raiding.

 

That's not entitlement. That's asking for what you pay for.

Edited by DarthTHC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone that has ever dealt with science or research understands that your test must be repeatable by others. Others are giving different results, which throws doubt on your conclusions.

 

That's true. His results are different than those "others" which throws doubt on their conclusions, by your own standards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's true. His results are different than those "others" which throws doubt on their conclusions, by your own standards.

 

The proper conclusion is that it affects different players with different specific setups of gear differently. So those denying the existence of a problem are not processing the available data correctly.

 

That's like someone living in Arizona not believing the oceans exist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Hovergame']OP : locked for SEVEN DAYS.
Dailies : locked for ONE DAY.

OP : you need 7-15 folks with you.
Dailies : you need to find 2 folks for ONE QUEST (3/4 if you're not overgeared).

OP : not down within the first days for a vast majority of payers.
Dailies : done after your first try, within hurs.

Running the same old OP cleared 20 times is boring, but who cleared Denova NiM 20 times already ? You'd need several atls and a really good guilde.

 

Not everyone has a good guild! As pointed out OPS locked for 7 days what do you do after that?

 

 

Ok, let's put the HARDCORE mode : when you die, your char is deleted. What, you don't like it ? But "I personally don't believe things should be easy, without a penalty there is no risk, so no incentive to learn tactics understand team work."

 

it's a lovely thought but a bit extreme, rather bad comparison!

 

We are REALLY happy for you that you find your way of playing. You're just saying "I like to grind, so I don't mind to pay more for repairs, suck to be you if you don't". Thank you for this useless comment about your life.

Finding things a grind is in your head, sadly you want everything to be given to you without any effort!

 

 

You probably never tried Denova NiM and never downed that raid. Thank you for that another useless comment.

Did Denova HM back when the best gear was Rakata and you couldn't buy your 63 mods for 1mill (one mod enough to repair for a while!) O yeah and the repair bill were much higher! We carried on raiding ....

 

 

Noone cares ?[/quote]

 

I don't care that you don't care!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, now! Accusing me of complimenting EA is tantamount to libel! I'm actually giving Bioware the credit (for taking my credits...). EA just cares about the bottom line. I seriously doubt they have much of a hand in the day-to-day balance decisions the dev team makes

 

BioWare exists now in name only. The brilliant company that was BioWare began to die when EA purchased them and completed its death spiral when the Doctors departed EA late last year.

 

It's all EA now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's so fun to throw that word around, isn't it? It's a great word. A word that's fun to use as an insult because people think it makes them sound like "smart" politicians.

 

But you're using the word incorrectly.

 

You see, here in SWTOR, we players - most of the ones complaining about this "bug" "fix" - PAY to play the game. It's a service we pay a company for.

 

Now "entitled" means the expectation of getting something for NOTHING. For reference, imagine a woman sitting on a couch in paid-for government housing eating canned frosting the government paid for, talking on the cell phone the government paid for, watching Oprah, and gestating her 9th out-of-wedlock baby, for which the government will pay all medical costs. THAT is entitlement.

 

That's not how we're thinking. We want to keep PAYING our money to play this game. However, we do not want to PAY for a game that FORCES us to do tedious, boring, unchallenging things for an inordinate amount of time just so we can get to the FUN part of the game for us, which is the challenge of raiding.

 

That's not entitlement. That's asking for what you pay for.

 

Entitled does not mean just "expecting to get something for nothing" . It may also be "expecting to get something for less effort than someone else", or even "expecting to get something just because you want it".

 

If person A does dailies or find another way to earn credits to pay for the new higher repair costs, but person B simply refuses to do so and screams for those repair costs to be lowered, then in my opinion person b has an entitled mindset. If person A logs in and queues for an FP and does dailies while waiting for it to pop, but person B logs in and queues for an FP but chooses to sit in fleet while waiting for it to pop, then in my opinion person B has an entitled mindset, especially if he wants to complain about the higher repair costs and ask for them be lowered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Entitled does not mean just "expecting to get something for nothing" . It may also be "expecting to get something for less effort than someone else", or even "expecting to get something just because you want it".

 

If person A does dailies or find another way to earn credits to pay for the new higher repair costs, but person B simply refuses to do so and screams for those repair costs to be lowered, then in my opinion person b has an entitled mindset. If person A logs in and queues for an FP and does dailies while waiting for it to pop, but person B logs in and queues for an FP but chooses to sit in fleet while waiting for it to pop, then in my opinion person B has an entitled mindset, especially if he wants to complain about the higher repair costs and ask for them be lowered.

 

Why do you think a game should force tedious, boring, unfun things on its paying customers?

 

In what universe would someone who's paying for entertainment continue to pay for that?

 

Do you have to sweep the floors in a movie theater after buying your ticket?

 

Person B is either entertained by the dailies or... something. Too stupid to realize he's not having fun?

Edited by DarthTHC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The proper conclusion is that it affects different players with different specific setups of gear differently. So those denying the existence of a problem are not processing the available data correctly.

 

That's like someone living in Arizona not believing the oceans exist.

 

I'm going to assume that you are not inferring that I am denying a problem exists, but rather just clarifying why different people are seeing different results in their tests.

 

Have I not repeatedly stated that the new bug causing repair costs to be calculated based on shell value needs to be fixed? Repair costs should be based on the item modifications only, and not the shell. The only time a shell should have any nearing on repair costs should be when that item is not moddable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to assume that you are not inferring that I am denying a problem exists, but rather just clarifying why different people are seeing different results in their tests.

 

Have I not repeatedly stated that the new bug causing repair costs to be calculated based on shell value needs to be fixed? Repair costs should be based on the item modifications only, and not the shell. The only time a shell should have any nearing on repair costs should be when that item is not moddable.

 

No, the post I quoted seemed like a rhetorical question, to which I gave a somewhat rhetorical answer.

 

Repair costs do need to be fixed and be calculated in a rational, well thought out manner.

 

That is not what is happening now. They're all forked up now. Why EA refuses to roll it back or even comment beyond "we're looking at it durrrrr" is beyond me and incredibly frustrating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why do you think a game should force tedious, boring, unfun things on its paying customers?

 

In what universe would someone who's paying for entertainment continue to pay for that?

 

Do you have to sweep the floors in a movie theater after buying your ticket?

 

Person B is either entertained by the dailies or... something. Too stupid to realize he's not having fun?

 

If you don't want to continue to pay for the entertainment you get from this game, then don't. It's an MMO. You know, those games that are all about grinding and making players work for things. MMO's are rarely, if ever, only about entertainment. If you feel that the fact that you pay to access EA/BW's servers makes you "entitled" to grind free entertainment, then you expect something for which you are not paying. In other words, you expect something for nothing. Oh, that would be your own definition of entitled, by the way.

 

In the end, you have to make a decision. Is the entertainment value of the "fun" parts of the game enough to justify some grinding, or does the grind outweigh the entertainment? If you find that the entertainment value is high enough, then I look forward to seeing you in game. If the grind outweighs the entertainment value, then I wish you well in your future gaming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...then in my opinion person B has an entitled mindset, especially if he wants to complain about the higher repair costs and ask for them be lowered.

 

So, it's fine with you that repair costs are varying wildly across the player base, and the change seems to be based on what shell you're using rather than the mods? For example, a level 37 in Legacy/Cartel Gear with blue or purple mods will have a higher repair bill than a level 50 with 63 mods wearing a PvP shell?

 

That's entitlement to you? Again, this word entitlement, I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

Here are some other words you may want to look up. They are relevant in this instance.

"Consistent" and "scale."

Here, I'll use them in a sentence for educational purposes:

 

"Gear durability should properly scale with player level, and that scale should be consistent for all players."

 

But hey, if the game is fine for you the way it is, good for you. It's not for the majority of people posting in these thread. It's fine if you convinced yourself that Bioware intended to push a change that would punish players for using the Legacy System or Cartel Market, arguably they biggest selling point in the game at this time. It's a free country, after all.

 

But for most of us, it's even less ok that it's now a week since this was pushed live and not a word from Bioware about a fix, much less explaining how the above scenario is exactly what they intended and there is no bug. At this point, I'm not even really expecting them to address it. I'm just checking the thread out of morbid curiosity to see how many pages it gets to be without a Bioware response. Either way, my sub runs out at the end of the month.

 

* * *

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, the post I quoted seemed like a rhetorical question, to which I gave a somewhat rhetorical answer.

 

Repair costs do need to be fixed and be calculated in a rational, well thought out manner.

 

That is not what is happening now. They're all forked up now. Why EA refuses to roll it back or even comment beyond "we're looking at it durrrrr" is beyond me and incredibly frustrating.

 

On that, we can agree. Repair costs need to be fixed so that eveyone is paying the same amount based on the item mods and not the shell. I would like to see something from EA also at least acknowledging exactly what the problem is and that they are working on it, although I understand why they might be reluctant to do so, based on history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear to who/whom ever it may concern,

 

I belong(ed?) to an active progression raiding guild (Mostly 16 man EC nim as well as 8 man nim ec groups)

 

Due to the recent change in repair costs our guild has cut back significantly on raiding as the costs to repair have taken a rather large toll on our players moral and guild bank funds.

 

Now i'm not saying the change of repair costs was a bad idea. I'm simply stating that the current state of repair costs has led to many in my guild (in-which all are subscribers) deciding (risks != reward) and are actively seeking challenges in other games.

 

As you can see I make no assertions nor do I conclude whether the change in repair costs "is" in fact a problem. I simply felt it best to state my own personal observations. I hope that your own experiences lead you to your own conclusions.

 

Thank You

Edited by portichae
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you don't want to continue to pay for the entertainment you get from this game, then don't. It's an MMO. You know, those games that are all about grinding and making players work for things. MMO's are rarely, if ever, only about entertainment. If you feel that the fact that you pay to access EA/BW's servers makes you "entitled" to grind free entertainment, then you expect something for which you are not paying. In other words, you expect something for nothing. Oh, that would be your own definition of entitled, by the way.

 

In the end, you have to make a decision. Is the entertainment value of the "fun" parts of the game enough to justify some grinding, or does the grind outweigh the entertainment? If you find that the entertainment value is high enough, then I look forward to seeing you in game. If the grind outweighs the entertainment value, then I wish you well in your future gaming.

 

Well, you see, that's the problem right there. So many "fans" said that to so many players in the Spring of 2012 that EA had to go into panic mode, drop all new content development, and shift to a pay-for-gambling-packs mentality to make money off the game.

 

Most of the remaining subscribers are raiders, and raiders are most impacted by this "bug" "fix". Do we want them to all quit, too? What will the next panic mode reaction from EA be? Closing the servers? Or finding more insidious ways to extract additional money from your wallet via the Cartel Market?

 

Yes, I have in fact cancelled my account due to not only the bug but also the way they're not handling it. I won't be forced to do unfun things in a game. I don't think many raiders who are here to pay for the challenge of raiding - or even the gear drops - will either. There are plenty of alternatives out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, it's fine with you that repair costs are varying wildly across the player base, and the change seems to be based on what shell you're using rather than the mods? For example, a level 37 in Legacy/Cartel Gear with blue or purple mods will have a higher repair bill than a level 50 with 63 mods wearing a PvP shell?

 

That's entitlement to you? Again, this word entitlement, I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

Here are some other words you may want to look up. They are relevant in this instance.

"Consistent" and "scale."

Here, I'll use them in a sentence for educational purposes:

 

"Gear durability should properly scale with player level, and that scale should be consistent for all players."

 

But hey, if the game is fine for you the way it is, good for you. It's not for the majority of people posting in these thread. It's fine if you convinced yourself that Bioware intended to push a change that would punish players for using the Legacy System or Cartel Market, arguably they biggest selling point in the game at this time. It's a free country, after all.

 

But for most of us, it's even less ok that it's now a week since this was pushed live and not a word from Bioware about a fix, much less explaining how the above scenario is exactly what they intended and there is no bug. At this point, I'm not even really expecting them to address it. I'm just checking the thread out of morbid curiosity to see how many pages it gets to be without a Bioware response. Either way, my sub runs out at the end of the month.

 

* * *

 

You may have missed the multiple posts in which I state that repair costs should be based on item mods and not the shell, and that this needs to be fixed. I even think that players should voice their displeasure. There is a difference between voicing displeasure while doing what one can to alleviate the problem while you wait for a solution, and screaming that there is a problem and demanding that it be fixed while refusing to make use of the means at your disposal to alleviate the problem while you wait for a solution. In my opinion, the former is rational and mature, and the latter is entitled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You may have missed the multiple posts in which I state that repair costs should be based on item mods and not the shell, and that this needs to be fixed. I even think that players should voice their displeasure. There is a difference between voicing displeasure while doing what one can to alleviate the problem while you wait for a solution, and screaming that there is a problem and demanding that it be fixed while refusing to make use of the means at your disposal to alleviate the problem ile you wait for a solution. In my opinion, the former is rational and mature, and the latter is entitled.

 

Dear Poster,

 

I am confused by your use of the word "entitled" do you mean to say that entitlement is neither rational or mature or that rational and mature people are not entitled to a solution? Do you mean that people who demand a fix while refusing to take measures to alleviate their problem while a solution is made to resolve their problem are entitled? Either of these cases I find very confusing.

 

Or perhaps you are confusing actual entitlement with the phrase "a false sense of entitlement "which I believe is a common idiomatic expression which would entail the individual thinks that they are entitled to something when in actuality they are entitled to nothing. I apologies English is not my first language.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Poster,

 

I am confused by your use of the word "entitled" do you mean to say that entitlement is neither rational or mature or that rational and mature people are not entitled to a solution? Do you mean that people who demand a fix while refusing to take measures to alleviate their problem while a solution is made to resolve their problem are entitled? Either of these cases I find very confusing.

 

Or perhaps you are confusing actual entitlement with the phrase "a false sense of entitlement "which I believe is a common idiomatic expression which would entail the individual thinks that they are entitled to something when in actuality they are entitled to nothing. I apologies English is not my first language.

 

I used the word "entitled" in place of the more correct "false sense of entitlement".

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...