Here is actually the real issue summed up in few bullet points

1) Season 1 gear needs to be easy to obtain in order to keep all new and prior players on an even level, this is because earlier players were given an unfair advantage and continue to have an unfair advantage to new players entering into level 50 pvp.

2) If you want to make a drastic change to how acquiring gear should be, wait until the second round of gear to make the change so that all players are on an even footing.

3) Getting multiple pieces of the same gear is a poor design concept, and at least if you are going to continue to use the bag system implement a way so you are always acquiring a unique piece of gear etc.

4) A non random way to acquire gear is essential for competitive pvp, tournaments, etc.

The reason people are whining is they think they are entitled to champion while skipping Centurion. I am valor 58, still have a centurion chest with columi/champion mods in it. It works fine.

If you guys are not raiding at all (missing half the end game), and only relying on the bags, then I can see why you would think you are being shafted. But that's your choice not to farm hard modes to get the mods you need.

Centurion is fine as the grind, champion is the fun occasional prize, then you hit 60 and deck yourself out in full champion with the occasional surprise of battlemaster.

Here is actually the real issue summed up in few bullet points

 

1) Season 1 gear needs to be easy to obtain in order to keep all new and prior players on an even level, this is because earlier players were given an unfair advantage and continue to have an unfair advantage to new players entering into level 50 pvp.

 

2) If you want to make a drastic change to how acquiring gear should be, wait until the second round of gear to make the change so that all players are on an even footing.

 

3) Getting multiple pieces of the same gear is a poor design concept, and at least if you are going to continue to use the bag system implement a way so you are always acquiring a unique piece of gear etc.

 

4) A non random way to acquire gear is essential for competitive pvp, tournaments, etc.

So, each bag now gives a lot more tokens. you have to grind them anyway, but the more on token gives faster pieces of gear.. just less Random instant pieces.

Depends on the future how many bags are needed. People who opened 6 and got 4 pieces feel cheated, but people who opened 20 for nothing win.

Wasnt it asked that "the cheap starter Set" was more readily available?

Its better than today, si?

The problem was with randomness, not with the drop rate. And your solution is to decrease the droprate, makes sense... not.

If you decrease the droprate then at least make it into a generic token so the lucky guy that finally gets it can pick whatever he wants without the fear of getting a duplicate.

The reason people are whining is they think they are entitled to champion while skipping Centurion. I am valor 58, still have a centurion chest with columi/champion mods in it. It works fine.

If you guys are not raiding at all (missing half the end game), and only relying on the bags, then I can see why you would think you are being shafted. But that's your choice not to farm hard modes to get the mods you need.

Centurion is fine as the grind, champion is the fun occasional prize, then you hit 60 and deck yourself out in full champion with the occasional surprise of battlemaster.

This is spot on.

Unfortunately, the enw bag syste is how it should have been from the get go. This is coming from someone who has been completely shafted on Champ gear up untol this point too.

The problem was with randomness, not with the drop rate. And your solution is to decrease the droprate, makes sense... not.

 

If you decrease the droprate then at least make it into a generic token so the lucky guy that finally gets it can pick whatever he wants without the fear of getting a duplicate.

BW's point is that you should NOT be relying on the possibility of random gear to gear yourself.

Quit your bellyaching.

Why is there RNG involved in getting PvP gear? So it'll be the same as getting PvE gear.

Why are you all crying about Centurion gear? None of you took the time to do some dalies in Ilum/Belsavis and didn't get the epic armoring from the dalies. You also didn't use the money you made from the dalies on epic mods/enhancements making your orange items pretty much just as good as the Centurion gear. No, you qued for WZs in your trash level 30 or 40 blues and then cried that the enemy team is farming you. The fact of the matter is you could have gear that's just as good as Centurion gear with no where close to the grind if you didn't autoque for WZ hoping to get lucky with a bag. This is one way to get a higher score and get access to more bags.

Bags reward skill. Better players will have access to more bags as they will always have higher scores.

L2P

BTW, I'm a level 50 Concealment Operative, and they haven't lost a step since the nerf. Operatives are fine, too many bads used HS as a crutch. I can still pull 300k damage some games and I don't even have full Champion set yet.

This is actually better if you think about it:

 

• You get more commendations per bag - way more reliable than hoping for a token.
  
• Battlemaster will actually mean something - At this level you will receive a lot more "Champion" comms with the occasional BM token.
  
• The gear will be obtained more reliably without getting duplicate tokens all the time, you can buy any piece with the comms.
  

 

The way it is written in the patch notes makes it look like a nerf, but I believe it will improve the overall PvP experience.

 

New players will gain Centurion gear MUCH faster with the increase in comms from Champion bags, and Battlemasters will be able to finish out their Champion set while also gaining a piece of BM gear occasionally (which is a very minor upgrade from Champion).

 

Let's not jump down their throats just yet.

If the random token was REMOVED, than yes it would be fine.

The problem, we get LESS chance of getting a random token which means SOME people will get VERY lucky and still get loads of token while MOST will get NOTHING.

The answer is simple :

REMOVE ALL RANDOM TOKEN

As long as random loot exist from bags, people will never be happy. The only random that "could" be made is the number of commendation you get, like making a variation from 6 to 9 commendation

Last time I checked, if you have a full set of Centurian gear you'll have over 500 expertise. You can easily re-mod it to improve the stats if you do hard-modes or raid at all. You can also use PVE weapons. They're fixing the Rakata weapons next patch which will have the same weapon dmg as Battlemaster I believe.

The changes will allow people to gear up at a steady rate instead relying on RNG.

I thought they also mentioned they are planning on reducing the effectiveness of expertise which makes using PVE gear even more viable.

You guys are missing the point. This issue goes beyond your whiny complaints that you're not getting gear as fast as the lucky Jones next door are; this is about implementing a pvp gear system for the long haul. Basically what was happening is the Gear Tokens drop rate was so high that people were getting geared out in Champion faster than what was intended so people were skipping completely over the natural progression of gear from Tier 1 and just expecting to immediately go straight to Tier 2 like they saw all their lucky friends doing.

The natural progression was obviously intended get Tier 1 (Centurion) gear from commendations with the chance of getting tier 2 (Champion). Then at the next stage get Tier 2 gear from commendations with the chance of getting T3 (Battlemaster).

Yes, this is going to hurt those people who just turned 50 because of how easily the first 50's farmed valor and gear but it will be better in the long run for the game.

It pisses me off...the grind to level 60 is long enough when every third enemy I see is a battlemaster and I have time for the daily WZ quests only and 0 chance of getting anything from Ilum.

But I think it will be manageable with moddable gear. Centurion gear provides a decent Expertise and the mods can be replaced with better PVE mods. I just wonder if the Expertise stat is on Armoring mod, or a part of the gear itself. The latter would be better.

Expecting a full PVP experience without having to be bothered by PVE (bleh) from this game is unreasonable...

You guys are missing the point. This issue goes beyond your whiny complaints that you're not getting gear as fast as the lucky Jones next door are; this is about implementing a pvp gear system for the long haul. Basically what was happening is the Gear Tokens drop rate was so high that people were getting geared out in Champion faster than what was intended so people were skipping completely over the natural progression of gear from Tier 1 and just expecting to immediately go straight to Tier 2 like they saw all their lucky friends doing.

 

The natural progression was obviously intended get Tier 1 (Centurion) gear from commendations with the chance of getting tier 2 (Champion). Then at the next stage get Tier 2 gear from commendations with the chance of getting T3 (Battlemaster).

 

Yes, this is going to hurt those people who just turned 50 because of how easily the first 50's farmed valor and gear but it will be better in the long run for the game.

This game doesn't have a long run. Most people are already 50 and replay-ability is trash. Coupled with bad design decisions.. this game has maybe 3 months left.

I hit BM last week. So far out of all my bags.. I have gotten 3 tokens. I do my dailies and my weeklies. If you are counting that is 1 item for 1 weeks worth of work. They nerf it more.. I don't see a point in playing. I am not going to tra-la-la my way to hoping for some 5% drop. I rather just not invest the time on some hope that maybe one day.. I can get something besides worthless champion commendations.

Guild Wars 2 is out in 8 months from now. The game is better than this one in its ALPHA STAGE. Yes I am in Alpha. They better get their crapola together because with the zero replay-ability from voice acting, all it has is end game. The end game PVE style is so easy it hurts so all that is left is PVP. ith the direction PvP is going.. this game doesn't have much left.

BW's point is that you should NOT be relying on the possibility of random gear to gear yourself.

So the newcomers will be running in centurion gear till valor60 (and then for some more till they start getting the champion pieces) ?

I'm ok with making the gear progression not random, but their change breaks more than it fixes.

I was almost full champion set, except the weapons, at valor level 30. Without the randomness I would need to wait another 30 valor levels for it. New people will actually need to do that. Me and many others didn't, how is that fair to the new guys?

This is what they should do: remove the randomness from the upcoming tiers. If they want to remove randomness from the existing tiers then they should make it accessible easier instead of harder.

So the newcomers will be running in centurion gear till valor60 (and then for some more till they start getting the champion pieces) ?

 

I'm ok with making the gear progression not random, but their change breaks more than it fixes.

 

 

I was almost full champion set, except the weapons, at valor level 30. Without the randomness I would need to wait another 30 valor levels for it. New people will actually need to do that. Me and many others didn't, how is that fair to the new guys?

 

 

This is what they should do: remove the randomness from the upcoming tiers. If they want to remove randomness from the existing tiers then they should make it accessible easier instead of harder.

2 guaranteed pieces per week with a chance at more imo. That still takes 2 months to gear out.

What a horrible change to be implemented in this way.

I am fully in favor of a solution where commendation gains are increased and token drops decreased. I'd go as far as to advocate removing the tokens outright, since I don't feel luck should play a major part in getting geared and I don't see how having a small chance to get a much better item than you are saving for really makes a whole lot of sense.

However, implementing the proposed solution in the current situation would be a terrible choice. Basically this will allow players who won the Champion's Bag lotto to keep their gear advantage (which is considerable between Centurion and Champion) whereas others will be stuck in Centurion gear until Valor 60.

If this had been done early in the game before many players had done significant gearing, this would have been a solid choice, and I'd have argued to actually remove the chance for a higher token altogether. However in the current situation where so many people have already gotten their Champion gear easily, 'fixing' the system by granting those who were lucky a massive gear advantage for a long time is beyond idiotic.

Right now, the only thing to do is accept that Centurion gear is not wanted by players and too weak to be the gear players earn while working towards Valor 60 with the amount of Champion gear which has been handed out to players favored by the RNG. They should just put in Champion Commendations which allow for a steady and reliable grinding (not giving away) of Champion gear instead. For all I care add a Super Battlemaster tier which is 4 lvls above BM gear if somehow needed to get the system to work and provide incentives for higher valor ranks.

Either way, gear should be earned. It should not be given out like candy to those who are lucky, and then changed to grant those lucky players a long term gear advantage.

man the number of freaking crybabies....

this is a good change. Champ gear was too easy to get, to the point where valor rank 23s were stacked and had little incentive to pvp to 60. Making this driven by currency and less by item tokens means less RNG, which is also a good thing.

Does stink for people not 50 and not in Champ gear, but hey, until the fix Ilum who really cares? just go trade kills and get valor rank 60 in no time.

this is a good change. Champ gear was tooo easy to get,

That's the whole point really. It's been so easy to get with some luck that it's not fair to effectively lock those who are newly 50 or lack luck out of it until Valor 60. Basically Champion gear is what Centurion gear was supposed to be, relatively easy obtainable gear. (assuming you have some luck, which by now legions of players have had)

You can't let a large number of players just get gear too easily based on sheer luck, and then make it much harder for those who come after. Only fair way to do this is just abandon Centurion gear altogether, allow for farming of Champion commendations to have Champion gear obtained at the same average rate as the bag system with random token drops allowed, and then unlock Battlemaster gear at higher levels.

Or heck, if they really like the lottery of getting a better token in bags, allow BM gear from Champion bags and give BMs some sort of SuperBM gear. Either way, grinding for gear from commendations based on valor rank is good. Restricting new players from gear which was handed out like candy before is not.

2 guaranteed pieces per week with a chance at more imo. That still takes 2 months to gear out.

You mean the centurion pieces that you could get with centurion tokens?

That would be fine if you could rollback all the random gear that dropped from the bags but somehow I doubt that this would make people happy.

The damage is done - there are too many people running with champion sets and they will be running for quite some time while new people will be waiting 2 months to get geared in crappy centurion sets.

A solution to this would be making the current gear easier to get and make the next tier in a proper way.

I hit 50, get 2 champion pieces. Since then: 23 empty champion bags

And they're reducing the drop rate? k

That's the whole point really. It's been so easy to get with some luck that it's not fair to effectively lock those who are newly 50 or lack luck out of it until Valor 60. Basically Champion gear is what Centurion gear was supposed to be, relatively easy obtainable gear. (assuming you have some luck, which by now legions of players have had)

 

You can't let a large number of players just get gear too easily based on sheer luck, and then make it much harder for those who come after. Only fair way to do this is just abandon Centurion gear altogether, allow for farming of Champion commendations to have Champion gear obtained at the same average rate as the bag system with random token drops allowed, and then unlock Battlemaster gear at higher levels.

 

Or heck, if they really like the lottery of getting a better token in bags, allow BM gear from Champion bags and give BMs some sort of SuperBM gear. Either way, grinding for gear from commendations based on valor rank is good. Restricting new players from gear which was handed out like candy before is not.

This is hyperbole. Cent gear with new mods is competitive with Champ gear.

Wow I saw PVP patch notes on the bags and thought maybe they've improved the random system.

Bioware, do you actually play your game at all??? I guarantee once Diablo 3 comes out that I am unsubbing, there is no reason to stay at that point because you are not making a convincing MMO P2P experience for me worth sticking around and paying for.

"We listen and provide what the community wants" Really?!? F2P within 6 months I promise if you don't actually listen to your source of income - your customers...