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Why so squishy


dwiekopy's Avatar


dwiekopy
01.21.2018 , 04:18 PM | #1
Why is powertech so squishy? Seriously, squishier than operative or sorcerer. Heavy armor class! It is fun to play but try running flashpoint and steal aggro. Three hits and you need to run and hide like a squishy, little mouse. Something similar to operative`s shield probe would be nice

Chryptyk's Avatar


Chryptyk
01.21.2018 , 04:25 PM | #2
You could even name it "Energy Shield" to make it simple

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
01.22.2018 , 07:41 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Chryptyk View Post
You could even name it "Energy Shield" to make it simple
Already have an energy shield.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
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Mubrak's Avatar


Mubrak
01.22.2018 , 09:17 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Chryptyk View Post
You could even name it "Energy Shield" to make it simple
The defensive abilities of energy shield are comparable if not better than shield probe's (25% reduction for 15s vs. about 16k damage absorbed in total, first hit guaranteed, no matter how high. Shield probe is more useful vs. big hits (if you know beforehand they're coming), energy shield is better vs. focus fire and general damage.

The problem is the cooldown time. 30/25s vs. 120s, and even with Tactics/AP CD-reduction you still have a 40s cooldown while taking damage for the whole time.
Tune down reflections to pre 5.5 values!
Move inventory tabs back to the bottom!
Remove the blue glow from useable stronghold objects and decorations!

Darth_Person's Avatar


Darth_Person
01.30.2018 , 05:06 PM | #5
Squishiness on the PT is really related to the utilities you take at this point. They changed the DPS side of the house so Pyro would get an AoE damage reduction and possibly an extra 5% if you choose. The 30% reduced AoE is 100% necessary, but I don't run the 5% reduction on Pyro. The utilities are in the 2nd tier and the final tier respectively. The dulfy guide is a little outdated in that perspective. Also if you're a low level running 70 FPs it doesn't matter what class you are, its going to be a squishy time.
{|||/\/\/\/\/\|[▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓]
http://www.swtor.com/r/yrGMPt

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
01.31.2018 , 04:38 PM | #6
Realistically the main reason is because they simply dont have any defensive option that holds any distinction
Look at all the defensive cooldowns that a Vanguard/PT has:

Energy Shield
Adrenaline Rush

That's it.

None of these are unique towards Vanguard, and they don't hold any distinction
Electro Shield (Attrition during Energy Shield) is shared between the two classes (Commando/Mercenary)
Shock Absorbers (aoe + stun defense) is shared between the two classes
Reflexive Shield (energy shield cdr on hit) is shared
The only Utility/Passive that Vanguards have that are unique, is
1) Defense chance on Battle Focus/Explosive Fuel
2) Adrenaline Rush gets 30% damage reduction 6 second cdr everytime you're hit

This is super bad for so many reasons
It means as an Advanced class you do NOT have any defensive option whatsoever. Literally everything you possess that is tentative to defensive, is not only shared with other classes, every class has a better design of it.
- AOE defensive was split between specs, now only Tanks can get stun Damage reduction and DPS spec can get AOE damage reduction. whereas commando's STILL have both on a single utility, and don't need to respect a specific role to get a certain effect. This was ultimately a nerf for us, as for no reason we lost defensive option, when we have the least amount in the entire game
- Commando has a stronger Energy Shield, gaining cdr on hit, attrition on hit, interruption immunity, healing received increase and pushback immunity, we only have attrition on utility and cdr on hit via Tactics,
Again another situation where commando DOES NOT need to respect a specific role to gain a desired effect
- Adrenaline Rush was made WAY stronger for Commando, not only giving them a higher healing threshold
- Commandos gained a new ability, and SWTOR devs thought Commandos should get a reflect before a tank Vanguard should get a staple one LMFAO

So yeah, to conclude.
When you're backs against the wall, your only option is to push harder than your opponent is pushing you.
Every class will be able to either out-sustain you, or out-last you due to simply having more cooldowns, better defense option and more tools to do the job

SWTOR devs (no disrespect to them but I won't discard reality to spare anybody's feelings) have this warped image of an archetype for Vanguards as some kind of accident prone Zealot who is expected to charge in and die or magically 1v4 without popping a single defensive cooldown.
Theres a surge in this "you're more important than me" selfless notion right now, where abilities like Strategic Supremacy, Sonic Rebounder and Transpose, are being made, and its coming at the expense of being useful altogether because once they're used up, there's nothing else you can do, and they're not guarenteed to save anybody, but simply put you in risk, while a haphazardous panicking playing cancels the effect but thinking he has to be attacking 100% of the time. Fun

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
01.31.2018 , 04:46 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Bonzenaattori View Post
Realistically the main reason is because they simply dont have any defensive option that holds any distinction
Look at all the defensive cooldowns that a Vanguard/PT has:

Energy Shield
Adrenaline Rush

That's it.

None of these are unique towards Vanguard, and they don't hold any distinction
Electro Shield (Attrition during Energy Shield) is shared between the two classes (Commando/Mercenary)
Shock Absorbers (aoe + stun defense) is shared between the two classes
Reflexive Shield (energy shield cdr on hit) is shared
The only Utility/Passive that Vanguards have that are unique, is
1) Defense chance on Battle Focus/Explosive Fuel
2) Adrenaline Rush gets 30% damage reduction 6 second cdr everytime you're hit

This is super bad for so many reasons
It means as an Advanced class you do NOT have any defensive option whatsoever. Literally everything you possess that is tentative to defensive, is not only shared with other classes, every class has a better design of it.
- AOE defensive was split between specs, now only Tanks can get stun Damage reduction and DPS spec can get AOE damage reduction. whereas commando's STILL have both on a single utility, and don't need to respect a specific role to get a certain effect. This was ultimately a nerf for us, as for no reason we lost defensive option, when we have the least amount in the entire game
- Commando has a stronger Energy Shield, gaining cdr on hit, attrition on hit, interruption immunity, healing received increase and pushback immunity, we only have attrition on utility and cdr on hit via Tactics,
Again another situation where commando DOES NOT need to respect a specific role to gain a desired effect
- Adrenaline Rush was made WAY stronger for Commando, not only giving them a higher healing threshold
- Commandos gained a new ability, and SWTOR devs thought Commandos should get a reflect before a tank Vanguard should get a staple one LMFAO

So yeah, to conclude.
When you're backs against the wall, your only option is to push harder than your opponent is pushing you.
Every class will be able to either out-sustain you, or out-last you due to simply having more cooldowns, better defense option and more tools to do the job
You sir are my hero.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
01.31.2018 , 04:53 PM | #8
Oh of course! I forgot to mention

During the mindless self depreciation ceremony that mysteriously took place that exposed Vanguard as the most overpowered class in the game during a meta that literally EVERYBODY missed because it lasted approx. 13 seconds

STORM got nerfed, losing it's 30% movement speed & refreshes everytime you get hit after charge and its damage was reduced (in case you don't know, it now does LESS damage than Hammer shot, which is your basic ability)
Riot Gas got nerfed, losing half its defensive aspect, in the sense of reducing the chance targets can hit you, because you could happy feet better than an Operative apparently. Going from 30% to 15%
And somebody, SOMEBODY decided, while every class gets a 65-70 skill, they'll redo STORM, for the 3rd time in the game! And make it even more useless than it was before.

So yea, the other reason is because we got nerfed
I won't even speak of the whole range bandwagon, because i can't comment on it without laughing

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
01.31.2018 , 04:59 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Bonzenaattori View Post
Oh of course! I forgot to mention

During the mindless self depreciation ceremony that mysteriously took place that exposed Vanguard as the most overpowered class in the game during a meta that literally EVERYBODY missed because it lasted approx. 13 seconds

STORM got nerfed, losing it's 30% movement speed & refreshes everytime you get hit after charge and its damage was reduced (in case you don't know, it now does LESS damage than Hammer shot, which is your basic ability)
Riot Gas got nerfed, losing half its defensive aspect, in the sense of reducing the chance targets can hit you, because you could happy feet better than an Operative apparently. Going from 30% to 15%
And somebody, SOMEBODY decided, while every class gets a 65-70 skill, they'll redo STORM, for the 3rd time in the game! And make it even more useless than it was before.

So yea, the other reason is because we got nerfed
While Mercs got the badly needed defenses PTs needed. Priceless I tell ya. Forgot the great range nerf when most of the abilities used to be 30m because PT/VG were listed as RANGED tanks, then got shoved into melee range because reasons.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
01.31.2018 , 05:17 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
While Mercs got the badly needed defenses PTs needed. Priceless I tell ya. Forgot the great range nerf when most of the abilities used to be 30m because PT/VG were listed as RANGED tanks, then got shoved into melee range because reasons.
It's really hard for me to consider range an actual issue for Vanguard
Kiting inside a 10m window is easy, weaving inbetween 4m-10m is even easier, its just players dont want to apply their fundamentals... thats their problem

The issue regarding range is very simple.
CONSISTENCY.
It's all it ever needed, it's all that was ever required. Yet somehow they decided to complicate the situation by destroying everything good about it, so ranged classes can feel... ...i dont know
I hate the whole ranged dichotomy. The ranges should be 5m melee, 10m hybrid. 30m ranged... why mobs have a range of 5m and melees have a range of 4 I'll never know. I gave up caring about that a long time ago, don't feel like talking about mechanics like that.

Shatter Slug essentially should've been the long range variant of Stockstrike, but instead decided to give it a damage pool so embarrassing, that Explosive Surge (an ability that has no cd) rivals it's damage. Sigh
They have an issue with High impact bolt being long range, then I look at Whirling Blade for Guardian Vigilance, Low Slash from Shadow Infiltrator, Twin Saber Throw from Sentinels, Frag Grenade from Scoundrels, not to mention the new quick shot utility that GIVES an operative/scoundrel energy, from an ability that originally had a cost. I cant help but ask questions. Why aren't we allowed to have long range? It's one ability...

Simply put, Vanguard's aren't allowed to be fun, because they dont have the force