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Pyrotech and Advanced Prototype Powertech/Plasmatech and Tactics Vanguard Set Bonus Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Pyrotech and Advanced Prototype Powertech/Plasmatech and Tactics Vanguard Set Bonus Discussion
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Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
07.14.2015 , 10:07 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Aetrus View Post
I hate the 6 piece set bonus for almost every DPS class. I think the autocrit thing is a poor idea, and it's made worse in AP. That's why so many people whine about AP's burst, is because of the huge DPS you can pump out in its opener due to the guaranteed crit on Energy Burst.
Removing the autocrit doesn't remove any of the burst. It just screws over quality of life. Less RNG is always a good thing.

Also people have been whining about PT burst since 1.0, removing the autocrit isn't going to stop them.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

Krev_Roo's Avatar


Krev_Roo
07.14.2015 , 10:30 PM | #22
The more I look at the set bonuses the lazier they feel for dps. 2piece increases damage by 2% for x time on x cd, 6piece use x ability to proc an auto crit for ability z on a y cd(or a variation there in). The only really interesting or varying set bonus for dps is the 4 piece and it's a kerfuffle:

For Vanguards/powertechs It's a miniscule 2energy less for our ST.
For Snipers/gunslingers; Reduces the cooldown of Target Acquired or Illegal Mods by 15 seconds, and activating either ability restores 15 energy.
For Sent/mar; Reduces the cooldown of Frenzy or Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases all damage dealt by 3% for 10 seconds.
for sorc/sage; Reduces cost of Lightning Strike and Force Lightning or Disturbance and Telekinetic Throw by 2 and reduces the cooldown of Polarity Shift or Mental Alacrity by 15 seconds.
for Shadows/Sins; Reduces the cooldown of Recklessness or Force Potency by 15 seconds.
for Jugg/guard; Reduces the minimum range of Saber Throw by 10 meters.
For mando/merc; Power Surge or Tech Override's cooldown is reduced by 5 seconds.
for scoundrel/ops; Backstab and Lethal Strike or Backblast and Point Blank Shot's energy cost is reduced by 2.

That's
3 that reduce the cost of an ability by 2
4 that reduce the cd of a offensive boost
1 that gets an additional 3% damage window
and 1 That is essentially necessary for their rotation [which should be baseline and not wasting a set bonus space]

It's almost like the designers couldn't think of a way to do something interesting here. But that may not have been their fault really. They have to make set bonuses that don't make it too overpowered but at the same time make it a nice treat for those that get them. I'm all for getting at least two of the set bonuses 'equal' across the board but I think that if they are going to have three set bonuses why not make the last one interesting?

This suggestion would probably require a change to the current system so call it crazy-
I would say make the third set bonus have an option for player preferential choice similar to the utilities. Make it open up a new little choice window in utilities where you can spend a 'set bonus point' and pick from a few balanced options.
e.g[using the existing ones as a stand in but a little tweeked]:
option 1: Reduce the cost for x ability by x amount.
option 2: Reduce the cd of a offensive boost by x seconds.
option 3: gain an additional +x% damage window for x seconds on an icd.
option 4: gain an additional +x% alacrity window for x seconds on an icd.

Or heck, even doing interesting things that utilities already can present with their choices.
This way it not only makes it worthwhile to get your set bonuses but also presents the players with a new way of customizing their experience. At first glance it may seem that the additional windows are favorable but that cd of battle focus could present better synergy with shoulder cannon for nicer burst, or that cost reduction (which should be more than that measly 2 if this was implemented) could allow you to use less hammer shots every few rotations.
In this example:
Options 1 and 2 are more stoic and give a rotational easement or set burst advantage.
While options 3 and 4 may present a small rng opportunity like the proc relics.

TL;DR: Make at least one of the set bonuses interesting and unique and possibly an opportunity for personal preference.
The Shadowlands - The Sound of One Han Clapping
Zlena - Vanguard Tal'sur'haai - Pyrotech Zanh - Gunslinger Ca'tra'ad - Commando Cin'ciri'ad Mercenary

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
07.14.2015 , 11:03 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Krev_Roo View Post
The more I look at the set bonuses the lazier they feel for dps. 2piece increases damage by 2% for x time on x cd, 6piece use x ability to proc an auto crit for ability z on a y cd(or a variation there in). The only really interesting or varying set bonus for dps is the 4 piece and it's a kerfuffle:

For Vanguards/powertechs It's a miniscule 2energy less for our ST.
For Snipers/gunslingers; Reduces the cooldown of Target Acquired or Illegal Mods by 15 seconds, and activating either ability restores 15 energy.
For Sent/mar; Reduces the cooldown of Frenzy or Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases all damage dealt by 3% for 10 seconds.
for sorc/sage; Reduces cost of Lightning Strike and Force Lightning or Disturbance and Telekinetic Throw by 2 and reduces the cooldown of Polarity Shift or Mental Alacrity by 15 seconds.
for Shadows/Sins; Reduces the cooldown of Recklessness or Force Potency by 15 seconds.
for Jugg/guard; Reduces the minimum range of Saber Throw by 10 meters.
For mando/merc; Power Surge or Tech Override's cooldown is reduced by 5 seconds.
for scoundrel/ops; Backstab and Lethal Strike or Backblast and Point Blank Shot's energy cost is reduced by 2.

That's
3 that reduce the cost of an ability by 2
4 that reduce the cd of a offensive boost
1 that gets an additional 3% damage window
and 1 That is essentially necessary for their rotation [which should be baseline and not wasting a set bonus space]

It's almost like the designers couldn't think of a way to do something interesting here. But that may not have been their fault really. They have to make set bonuses that don't make it too overpowered but at the same time make it a nice treat for those that get them. I'm all for getting at least two of the set bonuses 'equal' across the board but I think that if they are going to have three set bonuses why not make the last one interesting?

This suggestion would probably require a change to the current system so call it crazy-
I would say make the third set bonus have an option for player preferential choice similar to the utilities. Make it open up a new little choice window in utilities where you can spend a 'set bonus point' and pick from a few balanced options.
e.g[using the existing ones as a stand in but a little tweeked]:
option 1: Reduce the cost for x ability by x amount.
option 2: Reduce the cd of a offensive boost by x seconds.
option 3: gain an additional +x% damage window for x seconds on an icd.
option 4: gain an additional +x% alacrity window for x seconds on an icd.

Or heck, even doing interesting things that utilities already can present with their choices.
This way it not only makes it worthwhile to get your set bonuses but also presents the players with a new way of customizing their experience. At first glance it may seem that the additional windows are favorable but that cd of battle focus could present better synergy with shoulder cannon for nicer burst, or that cost reduction (which should be more than that measly 2 if this was implemented) could allow you to use less hammer shots every few rotations.
In this example:
Options 1 and 2 are more stoic and give a rotational easement or set burst advantage.
While options 3 and 4 may present a small rng opportunity like the proc relics.

TL;DR: Make at least one of the set bonuses interesting and unique and possibly an opportunity for personal preference.
This entire post is probably why FFXIV didn't even bother with set bonuses. You try to balance them and they are "boring." You try to make them unique and some classes get shafted. Personally I think the set bonuses are perfectly fine right now but whatever.

Luckyluzi's Avatar


Luckyluzi
07.15.2015 , 08:36 AM | #24
i really hate the all the autocrit setboni, the ap upfront burst at the beginning of each solo match is just ridiculous, would prefer a flat crit chances or damage increase
Caldera Legacy ToFN FOXHOUND
Naid/Vanguard Corm/Guardian Raito/Gunslinger Tourian/Shadow
Naid/Powertech Zadeus/Juggernaut Varoq/Assassin Kadar/Operative
Zeres/Sorceress Lelani/Sage Valon/Sentinel Talborn/Commando

bdatt's Avatar


bdatt
07.15.2015 , 11:55 AM | #25
Remove 4 piece and make energy reduction baseline.

Then make 4 piece something like this:

Activating gut provides a 30 sec buff that makes HiB not only refresh gut's dot, but apply gut's dot to a new target.

For plasma, maybe replace with plasmatize.

This would be a quality of life change in certain circumstances.

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
07.15.2015 , 12:48 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Luckyluzi View Post
i really hate the all the autocrit setboni, the ap upfront burst at the beginning of each solo match is just ridiculous, would prefer a flat crit chances or damage increase
No. The effective cooldown on Energy Burst is so long combined with it's energy means that it should be able to hit hard with some level of reliability. Waiting ~20 seconds and then spending 20 ammo just to get a 6k hit is laughable. If the autocrit is removed then the base damage of Cell Burst should be significantly increased with a proportional loss of crit multiplier.

Also don't even bring up AP's burst in solo ranked, AP's life expectancy in solo ranked is shorter than the duration of reactive shield. Nerfing AP further would just make the spec a total joke in solo ranked.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

Kyuuu's Avatar


Kyuuu
07.15.2015 , 01:21 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post

By the way at the very least can you make sure that setbonus procs don't share the same icons in the future? Having the 2pc setbonus and the 6pc setbonus sharing proc icons, can get annoying fast, especially in PvP.


Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Note from the Combat team on this...
This is excellent feedback (which is what we are hoping to read in these threads), and we will look into making the icons more varied and readable for you in the future. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!
you do realized this was reported back when 3.0 first hit by many people and i personal made count reports about this. you's just NOW realized the icons for them should not be same?. so again i ask the question do you's really play your own game?

Ethior's Avatar


Ethior
07.16.2015 , 03:17 AM | #28
I'd be very happy if we had more options. For example making 2 - 3 or more different set bonuses per discipline that would all be good and make them drop from different sets of Operations.

I realize it's a bit too much so why don't you at least try to make the 6pc feel uniquely themed after the discipline or at least advanced class + role and feeling. Tanks and Healers have this set bonus identity to some extent but they could also be a lot better. Auto crits are plain boring. Make them something that fits the class better, maybe something that even has a visual effect so when someone uses their enhanced Double Saber Throw(for example) their sound is a lot more prominent and their animation feels stronger. Like the extra discipline passive you don't get unless you progress through gear.

Don't even need to be OP just more fun and distinguishable.

snifsnif's Avatar


snifsnif
07.16.2015 , 07:56 AM | #29
Hello,
I play only PVE HL and in a Advanced Prototype form.
I feel that old 4 pces setbonus (186) plus 2pces new setbonus is more efficient than 6pces new bonus.
In my mind in PVE, the new bonus set is a big dps loose for those that manage heat without them !

Regards.

Aetrus's Avatar


Aetrus
07.16.2015 , 05:54 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by snifsnif View Post
Hello,
I play only PVE HL and in a Advanced Prototype form.
I feel that old 4 pces setbonus (186) plus 2pces new setbonus is more efficient than 6pces new bonus.
In my mind in PVE, the new bonus set is a big dps loose for those that manage heat without them !

Regards.
Uh, how on earth do you manage your heat without the lower cost of Rocket Punch? No offense, but I'd love to see some parses from you or at least some of your better boss fights.
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