Specifically because as a Commando the amount of counterplay against a Scoundrel or Operative is practically nil.

 

Here's every single encounter I've ever had against a Scoundrel/Operative DPS:

 

- Get knocked on my *** from them from stealth losing 1/3 my health from the first blow

- Get up from that cc, manage to turn around and try and defend myself

- **** that, immediately cc me again (Resolve bar still hasn't filled) and attack from behind again

- Lose another 1/3 - 2/3's of my health from that, so I'm either close to dead or fully dead now

- Assuming I'm alive, as soon as that CC wears off I get CC'd AGAIN (?!?) and from there it's an easy oneshot

 

Balanced my *** if the entire "fight" is just chain cc and often I don't even get a single shot off because of it: that's not balance that's a slaughter. Using the stun breaker only gives them the chance to stun me again immediately after I use it, so I'm pretty much dead if I do, dead if I don't.

 

Also had another example yesterday where in Alderaan Civil War one, just ONE Scoundrel/Op was able to defend a turret all by themselves by spamming their cc from stealth, then simply walking around the turret platform throwing grenades despite LOS'ing them. And this was 2 v 1 with myself and a Vangaurd, and they were only scared off by a 3rd person jumping in... and did they die finally after that long of being attacked?

 

Course not, triple roll away and they're practically at the middle turret already healing to full health.

 

 

Whenever a Scoundrel/Operative attacks there's basically no gameplay and I have no idea how this is allowed to exist. Maybe it wouldn't be such an issue if Stealth Scan wasn't completely awful, but hey, nobody seems to want to improve that either...

Concussion charge, electro net, kite, win

Specifically because as a Commando the amount of counterplay against a Scoundrel or Operative is practically nil.

 

Here's every single encounter I've ever had against a Scoundrel/Operative DPS:

 

- Get knocked on my *** from them from stealth losing 1/3 my health from the first blow

- Get up from that cc, manage to turn around and try and defend myself

- **** that, immediately cc me again (Resolve bar still hasn't filled) and attack from behind again

- Lose another 1/3 - 2/3's of my health from that, so I'm either close to dead or fully dead now

- Assuming I'm alive, as soon as that CC wears off I get CC'd AGAIN (?!?) and from there it's an easy oneshot

 

Balanced my *** if the entire "fight" is just chain cc and often I don't even get a single shot off because of it: that's not balance that's a slaughter. Using the stun breaker only gives them the chance to stun me again immediately after I use it, so I'm pretty much dead if I do, dead if I don't.

 

Also had another example yesterday where in Alderaan Civil War one, just ONE Scoundrel/Op was able to defend a turret all by themselves by spamming their cc from stealth, then simply walking around the turret platform throwing grenades despite LOS'ing them. And this was 2 v 1 with myself and a Vangaurd, and they were only scared off by a 3rd person jumping in... and did they die finally after that long of being attacked?

 

Course not, triple roll away and they're practically at the middle turret already healing to full health.

 

 

Whenever a Scoundrel/Operative attacks there's basically no gameplay and I have no idea how this is allowed to exist. Maybe it wouldn't be such an issue if Stealth Scan wasn't completely awful, but hey, nobody seems to want to improve that either...

 

I lol'd

Specifically because as a Commando the amount of counterplay against a Scoundrel or Operative is practically nil.

 

Here's every single encounter I've ever had against a Scoundrel/Operative DPS:

 

- Get knocked on my *** from them from stealth losing 1/3 my health from the first blow

Hidden Strike/Shoot First will crit for 7.5-8k when it crits on a PVP-geared target. It doesn't crit more than half the time.

- Get up from that cc, manage to turn around and try and defend myself

As soon as you get knocked down, immediately start spamming your knockback. You can still use abilities while your character is "getting up".

- **** that, immediately cc me again (Resolve bar still hasn't filled) and attack from behind again

Hidden Strike > Debilitate will ALWAYS whitebar the target, if done earlier than 4-5 GCD's apart.

- Lose another 1/3 - 2/3's of my health from that, so I'm either close to dead or fully dead now

Backblast/Backstab crits for around 6-8k on a PVP-geared target. This is also more rare than you'd think.

- Assuming I'm alive, as soon as that CC wears off I get CC'd AGAIN (?!?) and from there it's an easy oneshot

Flashbang is our only other out of combat CC, and it breaks on damage.

 

Balanced my *** if the entire "fight" is just chain cc and often I don't even get a single shot off because of it: that's not balance that's a slaughter. Using the stun breaker only gives them the chance to stun me again immediately after I use it, so I'm pretty much dead if I do, dead if I don't.

NEVER use your CC breaker on the knockdown. If you do, you're bad. Save it for the 4 second stun which usually follows.

Also had another example yesterday where in Alderaan Civil War one, just ONE Scoundrel/Op was able to defend a turret all by themselves by spamming their cc from stealth, then simply walking around the turret platform throwing grenades despite LOS'ing them. And this was 2 v 1 with myself and a Vangaurd, and they were only scared off by a 3rd person jumping in... and did they die finally after that long of being attacked?

If you guys are standing at the turret trying to cap while the scoundrel is bunnyhopping around the curb throwing grenades, of course you're not going to cap it. It's really not that hard. I've held a node against 3-4 idiots at a time for a minute or more.

 

Course not, triple roll away and they're practically at the middle turret already healing to full health.

3 rolls in succession will leave any operative spec severely energy starved.

 

 

Whenever a Scoundrel/Operative attacks there's basically no gameplay and I have no idea how this is allowed to exist. Maybe it wouldn't be such an issue if Stealth Scan wasn't completely awful, but hey, nobody seems to want to improve that either...

I pop assassins and operatives out of stealth with stealth scan on my PT almost every match. Literally. Keybind it, as soon as you see them stealth, pop it down slightly ahead of the direction they were facing. GG. Also, if you electronet an operative, they're screwed. If I get netted, I usually just sit there and die, unless my opponent is a tard.

 

My responses in yellow.

 

Commando/Mercenary has plenty of tools to combat operatives. I'd be more worried about assassins, who can shroud and completely screw over your stuns/knockbacks.

Edited March 20, 2014 by QuiveringPotato

Concussion charge, electro net, kite, win

 

Can't do any of those while cc'd.

 

Since they use Backblast(?) as a knockdown first they still have their AOE ranged stun so even if I Conc Charge immediately I'm just getting cc'd again.

Can't do any of those while cc'd.

 

Since they use Backblast(?) as a knockdown first they still have their AOE ranged stun so even if I Conc Charge immediately I'm just getting cc'd again.

 

Backstab is the behind the target stabby thing (think maul for assassins except worse). Hidden Strike/Shoot First is the knockdown.

...wat

 

>ranged

>stun

 

Flashbang is 10 meters. It's not a stun.

 

Debilitate is 4 meters. It is a 4 second stun.

Edited March 20, 2014 by QuiveringPotato

Backstab is the behind the target stabby thing (think maul for assassins except worse). Hidden Strike/Shoot First is the knockdown.

...wat

 

Ever heard of "Rep and Imp have different ability names?" Backstab =/= Backblast

 

Backblast might not be the stun's name, but it's one of their from-behind abilities.

 

 

>ranged

>stun

 

Flashbang is 10 meters. It's not a stun.

 

Debilitate is 4 meters. It is a 4 second stun.

 

Flashbang is a stun, unless you count my character flailing around unable to take any action as "not stunned". You prefer I use the word bamboozled?

Edited March 20, 2014 by Transairion

Flashbang is a stun, unless you count my character flailing around unable to take any action as "not stunned". You prefer I use the word bamboozled?

Ever read my sig? I play both sides. Backstab and Backblast are identical, except one is with a shotgun, one is with a knife. Same damage/use. Shoot First and Hidden Strike are the knockdowns. Only in concealment (and not even in 2.7), and again, with knife and shotgun. It's a 1.5 second stun. The "getting up" animation does not mean you are stunned.

 

A "stun" refers to a hard stun. Something that you can't get out of without breaking.

 

Flashbang is a "mezz". It breaks on damage. Just like concussion round, whirlwind, mind trap, sleep dart, slice droid... etc.

 

And most of the time, you'll have the concealment op's dot on you, so the flashbang will end immediately. Flashbang is almost never used as an offensive tool, (although I use it sometimes in lethality with toxic regulators), it's more of an escape tool.

 

The point is, there are many good commandos who aren't afraid of operatives.

Edited March 20, 2014 by QuiveringPotato

Specifically because as a Commando the amount of counterplay against a Scoundrel or Operative is practically nil.

 

Here's every single encounter I've ever had against a Scoundrel/Operative DPS:

 

Hidden Strike/Shoot First will crit for 7.5-8k when it crits on a PVP-geared target. It doesn't crit more than half the time.

 

Doesn't change the fact I'm losing a huge chunk of health before I even realize I'm being attacked.

 

- Get up from that cc, manage to turn around and try and defend myself

 

As soon as you get knocked down, immediately start spamming your knockback. You can still use abilities while your character is "getting up".

 

I'll try that then.

 

- **** that, immediately cc me again (Resolve bar still hasn't filled) and attack from behind again

 

Hidden Strike > Debilitate will ALWAYS whitebar the target, if done earlier than 4-5 GCD's apart.

 

Then they're not using HS -> Deb then, they're using Flashbang which doesn't fill the resolve bar combined with the knockdown. They use Deblitate as soon as Flashbang wears off.

 

- Lose another 1/3 - 2/3's of my health from that, so I'm either close to dead or fully dead now

 

Backblast/Backstab crits for around 6-8k on a PVP-geared target. This is also more rare than you'd think.

 

Not as rare as you'd think apparently.

 

- Assuming I'm alive, as soon as that CC wears off I get CC'd AGAIN (?!?) and from there it's an easy oneshot

 

Flashbang is our only other out of combat CC, and it breaks on damage.

 

Still prevents any and all action until it wears off/they attack from behind again, giving them free reign to cc again when it wears off

 

Balanced my *** if the entire "fight" is just chain cc and often I don't even get a single shot off because of it: that's not balance that's a slaughter. Using the stun breaker only gives them the chance to stun me again immediately after I use it, so I'm pretty much dead if I do, dead if I don't.

 

NEVER use your CC breaker on the knockdown. If you do, you're bad. Save it for the 4 second stun which usually follows.

 

Never said I did, but if I use it after the knockdown they still have 2 cc's left and they have to use all 3 to fill the resolve bar. Evidently knockdown -> flashbang -> 4 second stun is the "right" order

 

Also had another example yesterday where in Alderaan Civil War one, just ONE Scoundrel/Op was able to defend a turret all by themselves by spamming their cc from stealth, then simply walking around the turret platform throwing grenades despite LOS'ing them. And this was 2 v 1 with myself and a Vangaurd, and they were only scared off by a 3rd person jumping in... and did they die finally after that long of being attacked?

 

If you guys are standing at the turret trying to cap while the scoundrel is bunnyhopping around the curb throwing grenades, of course you're not going to cap it. It's really not that hard. I've held a node against 3-4 idiots at a time for a minute or more.

 

Only tried capping it after trying and failing to kill him 2 v 1 for several minutes since he can stealth, AOE cc and self-heal the entire time. As said took a 3 v 1 fight for him to lose enough health to retreat

 

 

Course not, triple roll away and they're practically at the middle turret already healing to full health.

3 rolls in succession will leave any operative spec severely energy starved.

And? It also left them half a map away from the people trying to kill them who don't have the advantage of tripling-rolling after them

 

Whenever a Scoundrel/Operative attacks there's basically no gameplay and I have no idea how this is allowed to exist. Maybe it wouldn't be such an issue if Stealth Scan wasn't completely awful, but hey, nobody seems to want to improve that either...

I pop assassins and operatives out of stealth with stealth scan on my PT almost every match. Literally. Keybind it, as soon as you see them stealth, pop it down slightly ahead of the direction they were facing. GG. Also, if you electronet an operative, they're screwed. If I get netted, I usually just sit there and die, unless my opponent is a tard.

 

I wish I was fighting those Operatives/Assins then since the only time I see people ome out of it's stealth it's because they're right behind me attacking. Scan's radius is so bad it's basically impossible to reveal someone unless you literally saw them stealthing nearby, and 90% people just walk around it.

 

I've even seen people brazenly walk right through it, get revealed, and then RESTEALTH once they moved out of it's raidus.

 

 

 

My responses in yellow.

 

Commando/Mercenary has plenty of tools to combat operatives. I'd be more worried about assassins, who can shroud and completely screw over your stuns/knockbacks.

 

Responses in green.

 

I actually have far less issue with Assassins as most of the time, while they do the same thing I'm not getting cc'd the whole time and can actually do some damage before I get killed. While Operatives I'm lucky to get anything done.

Responses in green.

 

I actually have far less issue with Assassins as most of the time, while they do the same thing I'm not getting cc'd the whole time and can actually do some damage before I get killed. While Operatives I'm lucky to get anything done.

 

Because that makes a whole lot of sense, since Assassins have more CC available to them compared to Operatives..

OP has no idea what's happening to him in a fight and THIS is what's killing him. Confirmation bias is telling him it's operatives. From there he's began reaching at every ability operatives have to justify what he's seeing. Any conc operative would laugh their *** off at you bringing up operative self heals in a thread about how overpowered they might be.

 

I know this because if operatives are CC locking you and assassins are not then you are playing bad assassins and good operatives. Alternatively you've made it abundantly clear you cannot deal with operatives and they're deliberately targeting you for the free kill.

Edited March 20, 2014 by CaptainApop

I actually have far less issue with Assassins as most of the time, while they do the same thing I'm not getting cc'd the whole time and can actually do some damage before I get killed. While Operatives I'm lucky to get anything done.

 

Yeah you aren't getting CC'd as much, because my assassin doesn't NEED to chain CC you. She can actually take a hit, unlike operatives who just melt. I will admit that concealment has a bit higher sustained damage with the ability to spam lacerate/collateral, but even with that higher sustained they still have absolutely no passive mitigation or useful DCD's past evasion, which is useless against yellow heavy classes.

Well, why don't you roll an operative and go up against a commando to see how they react and destroy you. And have no doubt, they will destroy you. Electronet most of the time is game over for a stealther. That's the only way to learn how to play your class Edited March 20, 2014 by Kawabonga

You don't get Electro Net at lower levels ... oh, wait, lower levels don't matter to you, I had forgotten.

Specifically because as a Commando the amount of counterplay against a Scoundrel or Operative is practically nil.

 

Really? I have a thread for you! Here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=730364

Long post incoming, names are mostly Imperial as that's what I play:

 

The easiest way to kill a dps operative comes down to one thing, knockback + electronet. As an operative, if my cc break is down I've probably just lost, and even if it's up, I will probably end up using LOS and self heals to win.

 

Getting that combo off is pretty simple if you (the merc) have your cc break, and... less so if you don't. If you have CC Break up:

 

1: As soon as the operative hits you, spam knockback, and *stare* at your resolve bar. After 1.5s of being flat on your face, you will start to stand up. Don't move, don't think, just keep spamming your knockback.

 

2: During this stand-up animation, your knockback will go off *unless* he followed Hidden strike immediately with his 4s stun. If he did, you *will* have full resolve. You will cc break and knockback. As long as he uses his stun within 4-5 GCDs of his knockdown, (about 6 seconds), you will have full resolve, cc break and knockback.

 

3: You will then *mouse* turn instantly to face him and hit electronet. If you are turning with the keyboard keys, this is your problem, and, sorry, but learn to play. I guarantee you that operative is mouse turning. Good mercs will have that net on me as I hit the ground from their knockback.

 

4: At this point, the operative may cc break the net. If he doesn't, kill him. You should be able to do this, or come close to doing so, within the ten seconds electronet lasts. If he cc breaks the net, you may actually have to fight, but you're in a pretty good position to do so.

-You have range on him

-You either have full resolve if he got his 4s stun off, or no resolve *but* a cc breaker to use on his 4s stun.

-He has no cc breaker, and you still have your 4s stun, and your casted 8s mez (which you refer to as a stun). Combine your casted mez with your insta-cast cooldown (power surge?), and you have 8 seconds to re-open distance or heal yourself.

-You have your DR cooldown (Reactive shield/Energy Shield), and your healing cooldown (Kolto Overload/Adrenaline Rush?)

 

Regardless, you've completely negated his cc-chain, his only remaining tool is his flashbang, which breaks on damage. At this point the fight gets complex enough to move past a step-by-step, but you have all the advantages.

 

If you have no cc-break and he lands the stun-lock (remember, mash that knockback), hit your insta-cast cd, and then concussion missile (or whatever the pubside version is) to CC him for 8 seconds. Use this time to gain range, and heal up. Net him when he comes out. If he CC breaks, net him and use hold the line to gain range.

 

The outcome of this fight is in large part about who has their CC break up. If the op can't break the net, he is probably done. If you can't break the stun, you may take too much damage to recover the fight. If both/neither of you have it though, it's a pretty fair fight.

OP it's pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about. From your posts I can gather you don't know how resolve works, you don't know how your abilities work and you have no idea how to deal with Ops.

 

If you'd like I will fully explain how resolve works but that will be a longish post and I'm not going to waste my time if your not going to read it.

Wat iz thiz?

Wat iz thiz?

 

Sig material, I think.

Summary:

 

I am bad by definition. Not only that but Im childish enough to want other classes nerfed for me rather than buffs for my class. Hurt the person who was mean to me.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Smuglebunny

Sig material, I think.

 

I'm running low on room tho.

I don't know if anyone has bothered to look at 2.7, but operatives are already nerfed.

 

No more KD or roll spamming.

 

Don't worry about them, because now nobody is going to want to play one.

Specifically because as a Commando the amount of counterplay against a Scoundrel or Operative is practically nil.

 

Here's every single encounter I've ever had against a Scoundrel/Operative DPS:

 

- Get knocked on my *** from them from stealth losing 1/3 my health from the first blow

- Get up from that cc, manage to turn around and try and defend myself

- **** that, immediately cc me again (Resolve bar still hasn't filled) and attack from behind again

- Lose another 1/3 - 2/3's of my health from that, so I'm either close to dead or fully dead now

- Assuming I'm alive, as soon as that CC wears off I get CC'd AGAIN (?!?) and from there it's an easy oneshot

 

Balanced my *** if the entire "fight" is just chain cc and often I don't even get a single shot off because of it: that's not balance that's a slaughter. Using the stun breaker only gives them the chance to stun me again immediately after I use it, so I'm pretty much dead if I do, dead if I don't.

 

Also had another example yesterday where in Alderaan Civil War one, just ONE Scoundrel/Op was able to defend a turret all by themselves by spamming their cc from stealth, then simply walking around the turret platform throwing grenades despite LOS'ing them. And this was 2 v 1 with myself and a Vangaurd, and they were only scared off by a 3rd person jumping in... and did they die finally after that long of being attacked?

 

Course not, triple roll away and they're practically at the middle turret already healing to full health.

 

 

Whenever a Scoundrel/Operative attacks there's basically no gameplay and I have no idea how this is allowed to exist. Maybe it wouldn't be such an issue if Stealth Scan wasn't completely awful, but hey, nobody seems to want to improve that either...

 

learn 2 play, QQtard.

I don't know if anyone has bothered to look at 2.7, but operatives are already nerfed.

 

No more KD or roll spamming.

 

Don't worry about them, because now nobody is going to want to play one.

 

Threads like is why they are loosing their knock down. People get knocked down a few times and loose their cool, and then get blown up w/ little resistance. Personally I don't have an issue w/ it because I'm patient and use my pushback and stuns properly, but a lot of people apparently just throw their keyboard as soon as their face hits the dirt.

 

Not saying i never get blown up myself, especially if their is more than one stealth around, but dps/drels are far from uncounterable for a merc/mando.

I don't know if anyone has bothered to look at 2.7, but operatives are already nerfed.

 

No more KD or roll spamming.

 

Don't worry about them, because now nobody is going to want to play one.

 

The changes to scamper is actually a buff and not a nerf. I mean 0 energy, can do it two times before it goes on a cooldown and slows don't effect it anymore seems like a buff to me.