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Optimal Stats For All 24 Disciplines, KOTFE Edition

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles
Optimal Stats For All 24 Disciplines, KOTFE Edition

Goblin_Lackey's Avatar


Goblin_Lackey
01.07.2016 , 07:42 PM | #391
Quote: Originally Posted by minitus View Post
But why focused retribution and not Serendipitous Assault isn't Ap better than mastery? or is it irrelevant which Dmg relic just for the endurance?
For every non-Tank class, the Mastery Proc Relic will always provide a larger boost than Power Proc Relic. This is likely due to the higher percentage Critical Damage and Alacrity due to gear and that the Serendipitous Assault Relic does not have its ICD reduced by alacrity.

That the Focused Retribution was the stronger relic has been true since my earliest calculation, so when the tanks were basically forced to take a dps relic, I assigned the relic I felt was stronger. I didn't bother checking to see if power was better for tanks because I was not trying to increase the Tank DPS, I was only trying to add Endurance.

With that being said; the difference is very small and for all intents and purposes they are identical. (2 DPS difference)


And thanks to Dipstik for answering this question already (and spotting me as I was checking the tank DPS)
Bant The Fat and Pink.

Co-GM of Psy-Ops on The Harbinger

Goblin_Lackey's Avatar


Goblin_Lackey
01.07.2016 , 08:56 PM | #392
Quote: Originally Posted by Joefjr View Post
A few questions about the TK/Ling calculations...
As a note, I am just going to use Imperial terms for my own ease of typing.
I also changed the order of your questions for clarity.

Quote: Originally Posted by Joefjr View Post
How is Telekinetic Momentum/Forked lighting handled?
For each ability that can be "forked" (Lightning Strike, Chain Lighting, Lighting Flash,Crushing Darkness,Thundering Blast), I created a version that had a usage rate that was linked to the original ability but was divided by 25% (4x increased time). Since SWTOR considers these moves to be seperate abilities from the original, I was able to find their StandardHealthMin and Max along with their coefficient.

Usage Rate = Average Time Between Ability "Activation"

Quote: Originally Posted by Joefjr View Post
How is Mental Alacrity/Polarity Shift handled in regards to Tremors/Conduction?
I gave Polarity Shift a modified Cooldown with the following calculation:

[Cooldown of Polarity Shift] =
( 120s - 15s[Chaos Nexus] - 15s[4 set] )
/ (1 + 1/[Usage rate of Forked Thundering Blast] + 1/[Usage rate of Forked Crushing Darkness] + 1/[Usage rate of Forked Lightning Flash + 1/[Usage rate of Forked Chain Lighting] + 1/[Usage rate of Forked Lighting Bolt])
~= 70.9s

This is derived from this equation:
[Cooldown] = 90s - sum( [Cooldown] / [Usage Rate] )
[Cooldown] = 90s - [Cooldown] * sum( 1 / [Usage Rate] )
[Cooldown] + [Cooldown] * sum( 1 / [Usage Rate] ) = 90s
[Cooldown] * (1 + sum( 1 / [Usage Rate] ) = 90s
[Cooldown] = 90s / (1 + sum( 1 / [Usage Rate] )


Quote: Originally Posted by Joefjr View Post
How is Flowing Force/Chaos Nexus handled?
Since all of the calculations so far were done in a spreadsheet, Chaos Nexus represented an issue. If I knew cooldown of polarity shift then it would be easy because I can simulate the 50% chance during Polarity Shift by using the following:

[Uptime of Polarity Shift] = 15s / [Cooldown of Polarity Shift]
[Chance of "Forked"] = 25% * ( 1 - [Uptime of Polarity Shift] ) + ( 25% + 25% ) * [Uptime of Polarity Shift]
or very simply:
[Chance of "Forked"] = 25% * ( 1 + [Uptime of Polarity Shift] )

With this I could potentially modify the usage rate of the forked abilities. But I could not tie the cooldown of Polarity Shift directly into the the usage rate because this is spreadsheet based and it would introduce a circulate reference (Polarity shift cooldown is based on the usage rate of ability that is also based on Polarity Shift)

To get around this, I used an approximation of the cooldown at 70s (pre-alacrity) used only to calculated Forked Lightning. This guess is very close to the resultant cooldown of Polarity Shift at ~70.9s.


Special Note: While writing this I found an error in my handling of Chaos Nexus. I accidentally applied it to the forked Darkness abilities which had increased their usage rate. This change represents a 45 DPS loss from my previous estimate.


Does this answer your questions for Lightning?
Bant The Fat and Pink.

Co-GM of Psy-Ops on The Harbinger

Gardimuer's Avatar


Gardimuer
01.07.2016 , 09:55 PM | #393
Quote: Originally Posted by Goblin_Lackey View Post
For every non-Tank class, the Mastery Proc Relic will always provide a larger boost than Power Proc Relic. This is likely due to the higher percentage Critical Damage and Alacrity due to gear and that the Serendipitous Assault Relic does not have its ICD reduced by alacrity.

That the Focused Retribution was the stronger relic has been true since my earliest calculation, so when the tanks were basically forced to take a dps relic, I assigned the relic I felt was stronger. I didn't bother checking to see if power was better for tanks because I was not trying to increase the Tank DPS, I was only trying to add Endurance.

With that being said; the difference is very small and for all intents and purposes they are identical. (2 DPS difference)


And thanks to Dipstik for answering this question already (and spotting me as I was checking the tank DPS)
Aside from tank DPS considerations, wouldn't the Power relic also be marginally better for Juggernauts due to Sonic Barrier, which is based on the Force Healing stat? Mastery gives .14 to bonus healing per point of stat, whereas Power gives .17. Sonic Barrier cannot benefit from the crit added by Mastery, so Power would be more effective. This might also be true for the Dark Charge proc heals for Assassin tanks during Overcharge Saber.

FerkWork's Avatar


FerkWork
01.07.2016 , 10:13 PM | #394
Quote: Originally Posted by foueddyf View Post
I'm a bit confused regarding Tank relic choices on the High HP builds.
Now I definitely agree on the Reactive Warding relic, but the other listed is Focused Retribution.

Is that a typo and OP meant Fortunate Redoubt? Or is it really Focused Retribution, if so, can you please explain why?
Tank relics don't have HP. DPS Relics do thus why high HP builds called for using a DPS relic for extra HP.
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Ardarell_Solo's Avatar


Ardarell_Solo
01.08.2016 , 02:32 AM | #395
Quote: Originally Posted by FerkWork View Post
Tank relics don't have HP. DPS Relics do thus why high HP builds called for using a DPS relic for extra HP.
I'm more comfortable with tanking relics even in an HP-build.

So: How would you have to change around stats if you used Fortunate Redoubt and Shield Amplification (Defense and Shield/Absorb-proc)?

Or does it generally make no sense to use them since available stats put us too close to the DR stat budget of Defense/Shield/Absorb already?
El'ethon - Sentinel <Taking the Jawas to Alderaan> Tulak Hord

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
01.08.2016 , 11:45 AM | #396
Quote: Originally Posted by Ardarell_Solo View Post
I'm more comfortable with tanking relics even in an HP-build.

So: How would you have to change around stats if you used Fortunate Redoubt and Shield Amplification (Defense and Shield/Absorb-proc)?

Or does it generally make no sense to use them since available stats put us too close to the DR stat budget of Defense/Shield/Absorb already?
typically you would reduce the amount of stat the relic contributes slightly. you should be using a warding relic along with the absorb relic for sins and shrouded/absorb relic for pt and jugg. the defense relic is only good for juggs and sins for very high melee/ranged damage ratio fights.

Joefjr's Avatar


Joefjr
01.08.2016 , 01:04 PM | #397
Quote: Originally Posted by Goblin_Lackey View Post
As a note, I am just going to use Imperial terms for my own ease of typing.
I also changed the order of your questions for clarity.



For each ability that can be "forked" (Lightning Strike, Chain Lighting, Lighting Flash,Crushing Darkness,Thundering Blast), I created a version that had a usage rate that was linked to the original ability but was divided by 25% (4x increased time). Since SWTOR considers these moves to be seperate abilities from the original, I was able to find their StandardHealthMin and Max along with their coefficient.

Usage Rate = Average Time Between Ability "Activation"


I gave Polarity Shift a modified Cooldown with the following calculation:

[Cooldown of Polarity Shift] =
( 120s - 15s[Chaos Nexus] - 15s[4 set] )
/ (1 + 1/[Usage rate of Forked Thundering Blast] + 1/[Usage rate of Forked Crushing Darkness] + 1/[Usage rate of Forked Lightning Flash + 1/[Usage rate of Forked Chain Lighting] + 1/[Usage rate of Forked Lighting Bolt])
~= 70.9s

This is derived from this equation:
[Cooldown] = 90s - sum( [Cooldown] / [Usage Rate] )
[Cooldown] = 90s - [Cooldown] * sum( 1 / [Usage Rate] )
[Cooldown] + [Cooldown] * sum( 1 / [Usage Rate] ) = 90s
[Cooldown] * (1 + sum( 1 / [Usage Rate] ) = 90s
[Cooldown] = 90s / (1 + sum( 1 / [Usage Rate] )




Since all of the calculations so far were done in a spreadsheet, Chaos Nexus represented an issue. If I knew cooldown of polarity shift then it would be easy because I can simulate the 50% chance during Polarity Shift by using the following:

[Uptime of Polarity Shift] = 15s / [Cooldown of Polarity Shift]
[Chance of "Forked"] = 25% * ( 1 - [Uptime of Polarity Shift] ) + ( 25% + 25% ) * [Uptime of Polarity Shift]
or very simply:
[Chance of "Forked"] = 25% * ( 1 + [Uptime of Polarity Shift] )

With this I could potentially modify the usage rate of the forked abilities. But I could not tie the cooldown of Polarity Shift directly into the the usage rate because this is spreadsheet based and it would introduce a circulate reference (Polarity shift cooldown is based on the usage rate of ability that is also based on Polarity Shift)

To get around this, I used an approximation of the cooldown at 70s (pre-alacrity) used only to calculated Forked Lightning. This guess is very close to the resultant cooldown of Polarity Shift at ~70.9s.


Special Note: While writing this I found an error in my handling of Chaos Nexus. I accidentally applied it to the forked Darkness abilities which had increased their usage rate. This change represents a 45 DPS loss from my previous estimate.


Does this answer your questions for Lightning?
Yes it does tyvm, that sucks about the dps loss from your estimates.
PLEASE give us an option to make HK-55 Melee we NEED a melee droid we got plenty of range droids already!
(9 Patches and still not fixed)Veeroa Denz and Choza Raabat are Force users comps getting tech power.

Petemachine's Avatar


Petemachine
01.09.2016 , 08:09 AM | #398
Hey everyone,

since I started playing SW:TOR some weeks ago after a huge break, I was struggleing to find the right balance for my infiltration DD-shadow. Your thread did help me a lot, so first of all: Thank you very much.

Ever since, I was aiming for the 216 Storymode-gear-stats, which are these:

Assassin - Deception || Shadow - Infiltration
6000 DPS @ 49.1 APM | 6071 Endurance | 4969 Mastery | 2639 Power
1128 Critical (4xE, 6xA, 2xC) | 815 Alacrity (2xE, 7xA) | 681 Accuracy (4xE, 1xA)

My problem is: Even though I now use the exact amouth of Es, As and Cs, which results in pretty much the stats that I was aiming for (got a little more, since I have 2 220 items by now), I have too much Endurance (about 400), too much mastery (about 200), while there is a huge lack in power (about 900).

I am confused. I really am. Since I followed the "instructions" and critical/alacrity/accuracy are in the right position ceteris paribus, I have no idea where I went wrong. I'd really appreciate a hint for what I might have missed.

Best regards!

Joefjr's Avatar


Joefjr
01.09.2016 , 12:33 PM | #399
Quote: Originally Posted by Petemachine View Post
Hey everyone,

since I started playing SW:TOR some weeks ago after a huge break, I was struggleing to find the right balance for my infiltration DD-shadow. Your thread did help me a lot, so first of all: Thank you very much.

Ever since, I was aiming for the 216 Storymode-gear-stats, which are these:

Assassin - Deception || Shadow - Infiltration
6000 DPS @ 49.1 APM | 6071 Endurance | 4969 Mastery | 2639 Power
1128 Critical (4xE, 6xA, 2xC) | 815 Alacrity (2xE, 7xA) | 681 Accuracy (4xE, 1xA)

My problem is: Even though I now use the exact amouth of Es, As and Cs, which results in pretty much the stats that I was aiming for (got a little more, since I have 2 220 items by now), I have too much Endurance (about 400), too much mastery (about 200), while there is a huge lack in power (about 900).

I am confused. I really am. Since I followed the "instructions" and critical/alacrity/accuracy are in the right position ceteris paribus, I have no idea where I went wrong. I'd really appreciate a hint for what I might have missed.

Best regards!
Those stats are based around having full MK-1 gear aka Unassembled token gear, or MK-2 which is crafted from RE MK-1 Implant/Ear wise. Sounds like you got some MK-4 which is high Endurnace low Power crystal vendor stuff.
PLEASE give us an option to make HK-55 Melee we NEED a melee droid we got plenty of range droids already!
(9 Patches and still not fixed)Veeroa Denz and Choza Raabat are Force users comps getting tech power.

Petemachine's Avatar


Petemachine
01.09.2016 , 02:06 PM | #400
Quote: Originally Posted by Joefjr View Post
Those stats are based around having full MK-1 gear aka Unassembled token gear, or MK-2 which is crafted from RE MK-1 Implant/Ear wise. Sounds like you got some MK-4 which is high Endurnace low Power crystal vendor stuff.
That's right, the equipment I got so far is entirely purchased at the crystal vendor.
So what you are saying is, that there is a difference in the balance of endurance vs. power between the modifications (?) of crystal-vendor-gear and operation-drops?