I don’t know if it is the recent influx of new players or what, but I have been seeing a much higher number of bad, toxic players in group finder the last week or two. Lower level players who don’t know fights and won’t listen when someone tries to explain them. People who think they know what they are doing but refuse to LOS, rush ahead to pull extra groups and cause wipes. It’s just brutal.

Then on top of that I’ve gotten Objective Meridian two days in a row as my random FP daily. I don’t mind it necessarily, but it takes three times as long as Hammer Station or Athiss, the fights are harder and the rewards are no better. Rewards need to be scaled to the length/difficulty of the FP. This would go so far towards improving quality of life. It would encourage people to try more FPs instead of just farming Hammer Station. As a result, people would know those fights better and it wouldn’t be so excruciating trying to run them.

I don’t know if it is the recent influx of new players or what, but I have been seeing a much higher number of bad, toxic players in group finder the last week or two. Lower level players who don’t know fights and won’t listen when someone tries to explain them. People who think they know what they are doing but refuse to LOS, rush ahead to pull extra groups and cause wipes. It’s just brutal.

 

Then on top of that I’ve gotten Objective Meridian two days in a row as my random FP daily. I don’t mind it necessarily, but it takes three times as long as Hammer Station or Athiss, the fights are harder and the rewards are no better. Rewards need to be scaled to the length/difficulty of the FP. This would go so far towards improving quality of life. It would encourage people to try more FPs instead of just farming Hammer Station. As a result, people would know those fights better and it wouldn’t be so excruciating trying to run them.

You ought to try PVP someday. The amount of awfulness is in uncharted waters I never seen such incompetent DPS in all my SWTOR life. It's bad. The skill level never been lower on this game. Apparently it's PVE as well as PVP.

I tend to solo queue a lot, I play my DPS now it's worse being a healer trying to keep up terrible players than it is being a DPS and not having to worry about others and just pew-pewing. Far less frustrating, even in losses where we have no healers.

I am a new player and when i join a group, i mention i am new. 9 times out of 10 it either gets ignored, told to 'get good' or get cussed at if i mess up due to not knowing the mechanics or a certain flashpoint. Am thinking of joining a guild who run them regular so can actually learn in a friendly environment and be able to progress.

what server are you on, there are some really good guilds on SF, which will help with fp's etc. Haven't noticed any toxic behaviour there either, but i could just be lucky...lol. But if you are on SF, and need a hand, pm me your chars name, and I'll add it to one of my toons who run fp' regularly, and see if we can help you learn the fp's

The best thing you can do with toxic people is just put them on ignore There are plenty of good people in the game, and ignore will weed out those toxic people eventually.

what server are you on, there are some really good guilds on SF.

I am on Darth Malgus, have been doing what you advised and /ignoring the toxic players. In fairness there are a lot more helpful/friendly people in this community than other mmo's.

I am on Darth Malgus, have been doing what you advised and /ignoring the toxic players. In fairness there are a lot more helpful/friendly people in this community than other mmo's.

I've heard a lot of people complaining about the toxicity there, I do have a couple of toons there, but don't play much, so I can't say for certain, but you are doing the right thing, just keep ignoring the toxic people. I think the community of swtor as a whole are great, and once you start ignore the toxic people, you see more and more of it. On all servers

There is some FPs that really shouldn't pop if the group is legit new to game or MMOs, like Chiss and Umbara just never seems to work out if players are not flexible enough to be able to survive on their own for a moment and keep track of their teammates as well. They require multitasking skills new players usually just don't have out of the box.

Most of the time I have no problem having newbs in hardmode FPs if they type in they're new or need mechanics explained. I'll explain happily if you ask, in my experience newbies who state they are new are also able to read and follow instructions just fine with minimal wipes to mechanics. If the newbie cant play their class rotation properly though and we faceplant to boss enrage due to low dps.. there I can't help you, thats purely a case of "get gud" you need to solve yourself by either checking a guide, hitting a dummy with parse, or just experimenting what order of button presses kills things fastest if you're completely against hitting up a search engine I can carry a bunch, but not to infinity. If if we got trough just with my extra dps, that might not work out next time when im not there with you lol

Yesterday was a good example where I qued hardmode FP with someone playing their first healer role and even newer tank who was doing their first group content que (they were both nice enough to say they're new). I was explaining the tactics to first boss, but when we wiped pretty fast and tank was doing pretty much anything and everything but tanking, I was rolling my eyes and asked something snarky like "first time ever tanking in mmo?". What I didnt expect was that "yes" answer, the tank was new to literally every MMO ever, not just this one, so they didn't even know what a taunt was or what Tanks job was in a group situation. Oh boy. Imagine new tank starting their career in hardmode que, while not knowing what their buttons do.

Thankfully I was drunk and found the entire situation hilarious, don't see quite this new newbie every day that even readily admits they have no clue what they're doing, like literally none. So I make the most basic speech about tanks taking less damage that everyone else, so they need to make sure most mobs are hitting them instead of us so healer dont die to stress irl, taunts are needed to keep enemy attention, tanks need to move enemies to tactical positions and so on and so fort. Gave them defense stim and some medpacs and after they found their taunt ability we went again. Well, fortunately I was on guardian so I could do half of the mechanics meant for tank (classic case of get carried) but the he picked up on what he was supposed to do on tank fairly quickly now that he knew what tanking was. Go figure. Only wiped a total of 3 times in Czerka core hm with new tank and healer. Not bad. I clapped and cheered at the end, even though I'd say this was the completely wrong place to start learning what your buttons and role does rofl.

There is some FPs that really shouldn't pop if the group is legit new to game or MMOs, like Chiss and Umbara just never seems to work out if players are not flexible enough to be able to survive on their own for a moment and keep track of their teammates as well. They require multitasking skills new players usually just don't have out of the box.

Well, that's certainly a lot of presumption on your part. Out of curiosity, how many MMOs, or other games, would you say you had played before you came here? Of those, how many of them would you say had mechanics similar to, or maybe even superior to what's offered here?

Most of the time I have no problem having newbs in hardmode FPs if they type in they're new or need mechanics explained. I'll explain happily if you ask, in my experience newbies who state they are new are also able to read and follow instructions just fine with minimal wipes to mechanics. If the newbie cant play their class rotation properly though and we faceplant to boss enrage due to low dps.. there I can't help you, thats purely a case of "get gud" you need to solve yourself by either checking a guide, hitting a dummy with parse, or just experimenting what order of button presses kills things fastest if you're completely against hitting up a search engine I can carry a bunch, but not to infinity. If if we got trough just with my extra dps, that might not work out next time when im not there with you lol

 

Yesterday was a good example where I qued hardmode FP with someone playing their first healer role and even newer tank who was doing their first group content que (they were both nice enough to say they're new). I was explaining the tactics to first boss, but when we wiped pretty fast and tank was doing pretty much anything and everything but tanking, I was rolling my eyes and asked something snarky like "first time ever tanking in mmo?". What I didnt expect was that "yes" answer, the tank was new to literally every MMO ever, not just this one, so they didn't even know what a taunt was or what Tanks job was in a group situation. Oh boy. Imagine new tank starting their career in hardmode que, while not knowing what their buttons do.

Thankfully I was drunk and found the entire situation hilarious, don't see quite this new newbie every day that even readily admits they have no clue what they're doing, like literally none. So I make the most basic speech about tanks taking less damage that everyone else, so they need to make sure most mobs are hitting them instead of us so healer dont die to stress irl, taunts are needed to keep enemy attention, tanks need to move enemies to tactical positions and so on and so fort. Gave them defense stim and some medpacs and after they found their taunt ability we went again. Well, I fortunately I was on guardian so I could do half of the mechanics meant for tank (classic case of get carried) but the he picked up on what he was supposed to do on tank fairly quickly now that he knew what tanking was. Go figure. Only wiped a total of 3 times in Czerka core hm with new tank and healer. Not bad. I clapped and cheered at the end, even though I'd say this was the completely wrong place to start learning what your buttons and role does rofl.

Well, that's certainly a lot of presumption on your part. Out of curiosity, how many MMOs, or other games, would you say you had played before you came here? Of those, how many of them would you say had mechanics similar to, or maybe even superior to what's offered here?

You are asking all the wrong questions here mate. I've played about 20something years worth of MMOs, so was already playing them good some years before swtor came to be. I don't know why this is important information to you but there you go. Its rather easy for me to tell which FPs are going to be hard for what types of players at this point.

When I mean new to this game I mean- do you know what your buttons do? Do you know what your role does, or what your role is? Do you know picking order? Do you know how los works? Are you comfortable with your rotation? Do you know what a rotation is? Do you like stand in fire? If your answer to these is shaky and you havent found your taunt button yet, maybe your first que to group content shouldn't be one of these on hard mode

I have most of my characters in a large guild with lots of experienced players, both to avoid pugs as much as possible in more challenging or highly tuned content, and to be able to help those willing to listen (we are a helpful guild, but it works both ways, we help others but only recruit / retain players who are willing to listen and work together).

I also know how to fish the queue (on a 75 and nothing but lowbies on match screen - decline, match screen instantly pops, no one else shows as accepting queue, check /who and the others are in Nathema - decline, etc.)

And I also know how to kick bad players and / or drop group and move on - waste my time you will not.

Oh and yes, I agree, the quality of players in queue these days is abysmal.

When a group of all 75s in higher / max gear can't manage the first pull in vet HS without screwing it up and getting themselves all killed, how on earth are they supposed to get through some of the more challenging or higher tuned content?

You are asking all the wrong questions here mate. I've played about 20something years worth of MMOs, so was already playing them good some years before swtor came to be. I don't know why this is important information to you but there you go. Its rather easy for me to tell which FPs are going to be hard for what types of players at this point.

When I mean new to this game I mean- do you know what your buttons do? Do you know what your role does, or what your role is? Do you know picking order? Do you know how los works? Are you comfortable with your rotation? Do you know what a rotation is? Do you like stand in fire? If your answer to these is shaky and you havent found your taunt button yet, maybe your first que to group content shouldn't be one of these on hard mode

Because just because a player is new here, doesn't mean they're new to MMOs or gaming? I mean, you go on to list yourself as an experienced player, and I know I was an experienced player when I arrived, so why should we be cut out of content based on being new here?

Because just because a player is new here, doesn't mean they're new to MMOs or gaming? I mean, you go on to list yourself as an experienced player, and I know I was an experienced player when I arrived, so why should we be cut out of content based on being new here?

I never suggested that. Learn to read. It says OR in between.

And if you want to wipe on Umbara because you dont know what taunt is I mean... you can do that is normal version as well. The only difference between normal and hm is roles, difficulty and lack of healy stations.

Because just because a player is new here, doesn't mean they're new to MMOs or gaming? I mean, you go on to list yourself as an experienced player, and I know I was an experienced player when I arrived, so why should we be cut out of content based on being new here?

No one is saying a player who is competent at gaming but just happens to be new to SWTOR should be cut out of content.

But someone who doesn't understand the basics of roles, doesn't have the slightest clue about any of their abilities, and hasn't even figured out that standing in fire is bad has NO business queuing up for harder content using group finder.

People who think they know what they are doing but refuse to LOS.

On the other hand, there's those LOS-aholics that slow things down by trying to LOS everything. 🙂

I never suggested that. Learn to read. It says OR in between.

And if you want to wipe on Umbara because you dont know what taunt is I mean... you can do that is normal version as well. The only difference between normal and hm is roles, difficulty and lack of healy stations.

So, while we're on the L2R segment here, how is the game supposed to determine player skill? What magic wand do the devs have that's going to determine "Ok, they don't have a lot of experience in FPs here, but they're really good at Dark Souls, so they'll be ok". You see, after the train wreck that was your initial assertion, I quit reading your post. See where I ended the quote, and replied? Notice how there's nothing after that from me, despite leaving the rest of your post? There's a reason: The initial suggestion has negative value, therefore, anything following it is also of less than 0 worth. This can be observed by your learn to read. You did, in fact, suggest that new players not be allowed in these FPs.

There is some FPs that really shouldn't pop if the group is legit new to game or MMOs,

It seems I'm reading just fine. I'm even picking up the subtext, eh?

No one is saying a player who is competent at gaming but just happens to be new to SWTOR should be cut out of content.

 

But someone who doesn't understand the basics of roles, doesn't have the slightest clue about any of their abilities, and hasn't even figured out that standing in fire is bad has NO business queuing up for harder content using group finder.

Sorry, but that's exactly what "FPs like x and y shouldn't pop for players new to the game or MMOs" means...

Allow me to translate: "If they're new, they don't belong here". If that's not the case, why exclude them from pops? I'll ask you the same question: How's the game supposed to differentiate between players that will be fine, and players that won't?

I'll wait.

I think the main problem is that more players need to understand that VM GF is "backyard softball", not ML Baseball.

When you play backyard softball, you don't get upset because little Timmy from next door doesn't know how to play.

The idea is to relax and have some fun. If you can't do that, that's your problem and you need to stop joining VM GF, or join a guild and only play with your "team".🙂

It seems I'm reading just fine. I'm even picking up the subtext, eh?

At this point I'm willing to believe you are misunderstanding on purpose, since you're doing the "I'll just take this one quote, ignore the rest of the paragraph that had the context in it, and make my own flavor text for it" classic media maneuver.

If you don't know what a taunt is, you also have no business joining a nightmare raid, unless the entire raid agreed to carry you for some reason. Doesn't mean you cant join one and pretend to know your stuff, but you're gonna get called out middle of first boss fight for not pulling your weight.

The only difference here is, nightmare raids are not in group finder, so its on the community to judge if their members is able to progress in the raid or not, GF does not have this. If there is a healer in NIM raid who havent got a clue what a rez is, they gonna get replaced real fast. But new tanks who que for chiss, dont have taunt on their quickbar and never tank anything, are gonna be real confused why the rest of the group is facepalming at their face and probably get demoralized and never que hm again because their first pop was way too difficult for their level of expertise. Seen this happen on many occasions.

At this point I'm willing to believe you are misunderstanding on purpose, since you're doing the "I'll just take this one quote, ignore the rest of the paragraph that had the context in it, and make my own flavor text for it" classic media maneuver.

 

If you don't know what a taunt is, you also have no business joining a nightmare raid, unless the entire raid agreed to carry you for some reason. Doesn't mean you cant join one and pretend to know your stuff, but you're gonna get called out middle of first boss fight for not pulling your weight.

 

The only difference here is, nightmare raids are not in group finder, so its on the community to judge if their members is able to progress in the raid or not, GF does not have this. If there is a healer in NIM raid who havent got a clue what a rez is, they gonna get replaced real fast. But new tanks who que for chiss, dont have taunt on their quickbar and never tank anything, are gonna be real confused why the rest of the group is facepalming at their face and probably get demoralized and never que hm again because their first pop was way too difficult for their level of expertise. Seen this happen on many occasions.

Point to order: I took that one part out of the whole to respond to initially, and left the context for anyone that didn't think it was a waste of their time to read. I pulled one line out to demonstrate that you in fact did say what you're claiming you didn't. Perhaps it's not a problem with my inability to read, but more a problem with you making a statement that you can not support?

Point to order: I took that one part out of the whole to respond to initially, and left the context for anyone that didn't think it was a waste of their time to read. I pulled one line out to demonstrate that you in fact did say what you're claiming you didn't. Perhaps it's not a problem with my inability to read, but more a problem with you making a statement that you can not support?

I'm not seeing an argument here.

On the plus side, this means the game is going well.

I haven't seen people whining about the toxicity of GF players except when population numbers are up.

So....... yay?

I'm not seeing an argument here.

Of course you're not...

On the plus side, this means the game is going well.

 

I haven't seen people whining about the toxicity of GF players except when population numbers are up.

 

So....... yay?

Every cloud has a silver lining

every silver lining has a cloud.....

Agree, very agree, its full of bad (censor will delete my real opinion here) players that think to be god onyl cause of the gear or so.

Lately got the tank with dps gear without even the shield that complained to the healer cause he was dieing, the assassin LVL 75 that didnt know overload (to push down adds) and stealth stun (mind trap in sin case), then the ranged tank that attacks every moving target without letting us stealthers get near to cc....

...and so on from lot of time...quarantine problems maybe...

on the other hand im one of those who got no problems teaching things to a newcomer IF and only IF they say it. when they jump in, team wipe a couple of time and then say, "oh sorry i dont know the game", then i go mad

i still cant read mind trought the pc screen...so how can i imagine if you know the FP or not? asking get usually more bad answers then an honest "no i dont"