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Give male Smuggler his Smuggler-y, funny and quippy voice back

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Give male Smuggler his Smuggler-y, funny and quippy voice back

Enako's Avatar


Enako
01.21.2020 , 08:38 PM | #11
(spoiler)

Well, i chose to join back to the Republic at the end of Onslaught, and they gave me a 'Commodore' title. Which is lightyears better and fitting than 'Commander'. And with Odessen joining the republic as a member world, things seem to be much more reasonable.

Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
01.22.2020 , 08:01 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Enako View Post
I can tell that much of that is due to the difficulty of game development - especially technical possibilities afforded by current technology and budget restraints. If a budget is limited to a certain degree, it becomes impossible to run 6-7 varied storylines at the same time. Then que the unified story, que the 'one size fits all as much as it can be done' approach.
Budget and technology are two very different things. Their budget is limited but the delivery or way in which the KotFE/ET story was delivered is because they focused on story content and took budget away from group content development to achieve it, particularly 4.0. That's when they, for the first time, upped all operations to max level instead of making new content. So there was better tech available and budget to do it, but that doesn't meant the story writing itself was good.
Quote: Originally Posted by Enako View Post
If we look at the class stories, we can easily see that they were also very short and blunt - we had the impression that they were sufficient stories because they had to be run together with planetary stories and side quests in the early days of the game. This forced us to re-run entire rigid storylines of each class only with some flavor of class story added by the individual class' story. That was a drag in your 3th alt and on...
When comparing it to other MMOs and NOT single player games the 8 class stories were revolutionary in a way, especially because they all were part of a larger story and intertwined at moments. The delivery may have been somewhat short or blunt but at the same time I felt it was effective and it made me feel a part of a larger story but also with my characters as an integral part of them, whereas in KotFE/ET I felt like a spectator to the main story which was all about the Valkorion family. As such I get that there was only one story and not 8 because your character was no longer the actual main character in the story.
And I find KotFE/ET entirely much more annoying and boring to play through than the class stories did. I wanted to know what was next in the class stories and in KotFE/ET I just wanted to know when it was going to end.
Quote: Originally Posted by Enako View Post
Compared to that state of affairs in early game and how short the class story becomes if you take it away from planetary stories, kotfe/kotet comes up as a gigantic story. I very much think that implementing such a phenomenally large story differently for 4 classes would be very difficult. With enough budget and time, it sure could be done. That's certain. But the budget was likely not there.
You keep referring to length but that's not an indication of quality. Long stories can be boring and nonsensical and that's what happened in KotFE/ET as far as I'm concerned. KotFE/ET could have been a lot shorter and at least have an Imp and Rep side or a Force User and Tech user side to have it make at least more sense. Still not sure what my Sniper was doing in that cave making a brand new force sniper rifle to fight Arcann that I didn't even need to equip to win the fight.
Quote: Originally Posted by Enako View Post
If the budget is not there, then dividing the budget into 4 classes and doing sufficiently differentiated stories for each could work out. It could be combined with a larger 'event' story that's happening in the galaxy at a given point in time.
The budget already wasn't there in RotHC and SoR but they were still better stories. You are just doding the real issue. It's not about money, it's not about tech, it's not about 1 vs 8 stories, it's about whether the story content is enjoyable and at least makes sense within the context of the IP. Whereas SoR did manage that still even with just one story and limited budget, KotFE/ET with increased story budget failed to deliver that. It's about the actual story as it was written that I have trouble with.

Quote: Originally Posted by Enako View Post
Hell, actually there doesnt need to be one large 'happening' in the galaxy in every expansion. Every class can have their own lives and their own events.
I agree with that but then KotFE/ET was all about one big event to the next. All very contrived and aimed at keeping us going from "wow" to "wow" so we wouldn't see the issues. Well aside from the ridiculous amounts of skytroopers, the wows got stale very quick and the story was lame. There I said it.

But it has nothing to do with whether or not there were 8 class stories. They could've written a better story to fit all 8 classes in there but they didn't. They just threw some stuff in there for everyone left and right but that still doesn't make it right. They could've made some small deviations in the story depending on whether or not you're a force user and it could've made more sense.

And you see, I like the story telling better since Iokath. Onslaught I liked also, even though it's short but the problem with Onslaught is that they've completely abandoned an overarching story where depending on your faction the main events play out in exact opposite ways. So that's a story telling mistake of a different category. That's where they did a better job at RotHC and SoR. The issue is also that the story can never really get too much depth and have things going one way or another because the red line is events with different outcomes rather.

If first played the imp version and I liked it. Then I played the rep side and I was constantly like...wait, that contradicts what I already did on the other side. There just isn't an actual story. Just events lined up that are inconsequential cause it's an entirely different story in the end. You go to Onderon and whether or not the imps or reps win there makes zero difference because you go to Mek-Sha just the same. And whereas on the imp side these events needed to be won to be able to go to the final stage, on the rep side these events were lost by the Empire and the final stage still happens.

No, if you like it all that's fine but although I regret the loss of class stories and I know budgets are limited, all of that is not what I'm talking about. It's the writing itself that I don't care for and now this new situation where the imp and rep side version directly contradict each other which just sucks imo.

That has nothing to do with those arguments you try to squeeze in. It's the story iteself, even just the oultine of it that's the problem.
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xordevoreaux's Avatar


xordevoreaux
01.22.2020 , 08:36 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
No, if you like it all that's fine but although I regret the loss of class stories and I know budgets are limited, all of that is not what I'm talking about. It's the writing itself that I don't care for and now this new situation where the imp and rep side version directly contradict each other which just sucks imo.
Nothing new there. Nothing at all.

Look at the class story both imp and pub on Taris, or Balmorra, or any other class story planet up through chapter 3. Both sides win their respective story, overcome the other side, and regardless what or where a character's story accomplished or went since the moment of character creation, everyone winds up at Makeb, sluiced into a narrowed story line.
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Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
01.22.2020 , 09:01 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by xordevoreaux View Post
Nothing new there. Nothing at all.

Look at the class story both imp and pub on Taris, or Balmorra, or any other class story planet up through chapter 3. Both sides win their respective story, overcome the other side, and regardless what or where a character's story accomplished or went since the moment of character creation, everyone winds up at Makeb, sluiced into a narrowed story line.
The new situation I refered to is the contradiction in what happens. Everybody ending up at Makeb is not a contradiction.

Taris and Balmorra stories happen at different times for example. That's why Balmorra is first in the Imp side and Taris first on the rep side. Those stories don't contradict each other, they follow one after the other.

When you go to Mek-Sha you destroy the rep fleet if you're an imp. If you're on the rep side you prevent that from happening. So that's a contradiction in what happens in the SAME event. And that's new because it's one of the main events of the story. On the imp side it was clear the final assault could not happen if they didn't stop the rep fleet. On the rep side it happens regardless AND the empire bombs civilians, which is a choice on the imp side.

So really, whereas the class stories had different events in different places, the larger events of the main story line of the conflict between the two sides is the same in the end. On Makeb there is a different story to follow depending on whether you're imp or rep but they do not contradict each other. They are part of the same larger story etc. Even in KotFE/ET they made every character the "commander" so that there was no contradiction in the story itself and the different choices you make do not affect the main outcomes.

It's not till recently that they let both sides have contradicting stories. That's new. The fact that on the imp side you succeed in destroying the Corellia factory and on the rep side you prevent it from happening means that these outcomes are a complete contradiction of each other.
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OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
01.22.2020 , 11:34 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
The new situation I refered to is the contradiction in what happens. Everybody ending up at Makeb is not a contradiction.

Taris and Balmorra stories happen at different times for example. That's why Balmorra is first in the Imp side and Taris first on the rep side. Those stories don't contradict each other, they follow one after the other.

When you go to Mek-Sha you destroy the rep fleet if you're an imp. If you're on the rep side you prevent that from happening. So that's a contradiction in what happens in the SAME event. And that's new because it's one of the main events of the story. On the imp side it was clear the final assault could not happen if they didn't stop the rep fleet. On the rep side it happens regardless AND the empire bombs civilians, which is a choice on the imp side.

So really, whereas the class stories had different events in different places, the larger events of the main story line of the conflict between the two sides is the same in the end. On Makeb there is a different story to follow depending on whether you're imp or rep but they do not contradict each other. They are part of the same larger story etc. Even in KotFE/ET they made every character the "commander" so that there was no contradiction in the story itself and the different choices you make do not affect the main outcomes.

It's not till recently that they let both sides have contradicting stories. That's new. The fact that on the imp side you succeed in destroying the Corellia factory and on the rep side you prevent it from happening means that these outcomes are a complete contradiction of each other.
Interesting .. very interesting. I also wondered about how this ended for the Empire side ?

At some point in time these stories will need to be reconciled. At some point in time.. the paths will need to cross over and reveal similarities while still seeing the continuity of a single fact or event from the different perspectives of the individual classes.
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Enako's Avatar


Enako
01.22.2020 , 05:56 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
Budget and technology are two very different things.......So there was better tech available and budget to do it, but that doesn't meant the story writing itself was good
I meant the budget that was diverted to Anthem and other projects. Not how the budget was divided inside Swtor, or even inside the departments that were tasked with expansion.

You underestimate the impact of budget and time constraints. Budget impacts a lot of things, especially how many content writers you can have, and from what quality, and even whether you can involve prominent figures to help with the story or at least make sure it does not break canon

But what's more - it takes money to pay all those voice actors, and the actors who enact the motion capture scenes. Considerable money.

Which makes one overarching, fairly linear story easier or as easy as 5-6 differentiated stories with partly or noticeably different dialog choices, outcomes and other traits. On top of that, there's also the concern of planning too - choices users may make need to be maintainable into the future expansions, not only game code wise but also they must be workable within the game world. Without even saying that they must not risk punch big holes in the game world, its consistency or manufactured reality - leave aside SW canon or storytelling.

Anyone who partakes in software development and release cycles for software which must be maintained into the future would understand such problems of future maintainability - and software development happens without any concern for any story consistency, canon, or other similar literature stuff.

...

Our experiences differ. I very much liked kotfe/kotet, even if it was a bit off compared to what we know as Star Wars. I liked the length of the story as well, since im finding that once we dont have to do planetary stories to level chars anymore, the class story comes up way too short to be memorable. Kotfe/Kotet writing would easily compete with the blatantly careless and irresponsible script writing of recent Star Wars movies in my opinion, and if they pushed the story writing a bit further, they could as well make it a side-story for Star Wars and release it as a movie.

As i said, our experiences differ.

My only problems with kotfe/kotet have been that they strayed too far from general Star Wars look and feel. And i think maybe it was intentionally so since Disney was taking over Star Wars IP at that time and the future of the game may have been in question, and there could have been a chance for Bioware to keep the game going by pivoting it away from Star Wars in order to appease Disney's desires - so that it would not interfere with whatever they were going to do with the IP they took over from Lucas. Of course this is a theory.