Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Deserter Lockout, terrible new mechanic

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Deserter Lockout, terrible new mechanic

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
08.08.2020 , 04:28 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
Get reported enough and you'll be enjoying that ban. Trust me, I've seen it happen to a few people.
I'd report them every time and shame them in fleet and tell others to report them.
BIOWARE
Players quit WZs they do not enjoy. You are losing PVPers.
Give players a choice of WZs, enough is enough (Huttball) already!

Good job increasing rewards for PVP! It was much needed, thank you.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
08.08.2020 , 04:58 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Turn-XGundam View Post
premades should be matched with each other, but those cowards would cry about getting stomped by better premades. any pvp/multiplayer where you match pubs/regs with premades is a terrible design. it has never worked for any other game. no different story in swtor.
They are normally. I rarely run into premades until I'm in one myself then every match seems to have one.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.08.2020 , 12:59 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
They are normally. I rarely run into premades until I'm in one myself then every match seems to have one.
I see quite a lot of premades on Star forge at the times I play. Both in lowbies, Mids and lvl 75. They really stand out because 75% of my games are arena.
It’s actually really sad because I know some of the names and they are often ranked players. The experience is like putting a solo queue team with an ELO of 1100 up against a grank team with an ELO 1500
Bioware don’t do that to ranked because it’s unfair and everyone would cry about it. But Bioware and many premaders thinks it’s ok to do it in Regs?
I can tell you before this lock out buff was added, I would just leave those matches. Now we can’t and you get stuck into a loop rotation where every other match is against them and they taunt you in chat. It’s actually worse than the toxicity I’ve seen in ranked. They kill any enjoyment you might be having and people stop queuing, which kills the queue faster than it used to.
What’s worse is it also keeps making matches 3v4 against these guys. So not only do you pop against a premade, you also have one less player. But if we decide to leave the match, we get slugged with a 15min deserter timer.
I can categorically say from my experiences in a low pop environment, that the debuff is actually hurting pvp pop times and numbers outside of primetime. It’s doing more harm than good.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
08.08.2020 , 02:14 PM | #64
I can't account for lowbies because I don't play lowbies given that the queue for under 75 pvp is all but dead, especially in the early morning hours you play in. I play during prime time east coast US and I solo 98% of the time and I honestly rarely come across any premades.

I'm always up and down on the conversation of premades, but my general opinion of them in the current state of the game is just whatever. If I come across one, so what. Play the match and move on. Most of them are garbage number farmers anyways and they are not even good at that.

Nickodemous's Avatar


Nickodemous
08.08.2020 , 06:00 PM | #65
It working....end of story!
Tyranticus - Ty'zor - Maullin - Clandestu - Pepe'nero

The Elite Warlord Club - The PVP FAB FIVE

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.08.2020 , 11:11 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
I can't account for lowbies because I don't play lowbies given that the queue for under 75 pvp is all but dead, especially in the early morning hours you play in. I play during prime time east coast US and I solo 98% of the time and I honestly rarely come across any premades.

I'm always up and down on the conversation of premades, but my general opinion of them in the current state of the game is just whatever. If I come across one, so what. Play the match and move on. Most of them are garbage number farmers anyways and they are not even good at that.
Try playing when 75% of your pops are arena and you get ranked quality premade’s vs reg quality pugs. I’m sure you wouldn’t play solo during those matches or you’d stop queuing.

Sadly, the new lock out means we can’t even leave now. And with losses not counting towards the missions or conquest anymore, there is a lot of reasons to stop pvping altogether under those circumstances.

The whole situation is perfect storm to kill pvp outside of primetime.

1. Lock outs mean less players in the queue “if” they decide to leave
2. Losses don’t count towards mission completion or conquest. So totally unbalanced teams and matches are a waste of time.
3. Low pop environment means lots of arena matches.
4. Then add premaders to the mix and it ruins matches and the queue. You will lose 99% of the time.

Which means it quickly becomes a complete waste of time queuing when you can’t even complete a daily. So less people queue and you have a self perpetuating situation of low pops. Hence my perfect storm analogy.

Eventually this is going to encroach on primetime pops too (these things always do). It will start to snow ball and it will kill pvp if Bioware don’t make changes before it hits critical mass.

Bioware would never consider getting rid of the ranked solo queue and letting “ranked” be a mix of puggers and premades because we know how unfair that would be. So if Bioware are going to continue having a deserter lockout and make losses not count towards the missions, then same consideration should be given to regs as they do to ranked.

So if they are determined to keep the same conditions in place, they need either :
1. Totally remove premades from the pug queue and give it a seperate queue (which I know will never happen because we don’t have a large enough population)
Or
2. They need to reduce premade sizes to two man (not perfect, but it is a compromise)
Or
3. They need to make it so losses still count (use the old point system)
Or
4. They need to remove the lock out timer for leaving reg matches (or they need to at least reduce the lock out time by half during low pop times)

If they are determined to keep a lock out timer and make it so wins are everything, then would set it up like this :
1. Premades are reduced to maximum of two man.
2. A win gives 3 points and a loss gives 1 point and you need 3 points complete the daily mission and 30 points to complete the weekly.
3. Reduce the lock out timer to 10 mins in high pop environment and 5 mins in a low pop environment. They also need to add a debuff symbol to your character so you can mouse over it and actually “see” how much time is left on it.
4. Remove lock outs completely from lowbies and Mids.

None of what I’m suggesting is perfect and it won’t make everyone happy. It’s mostly a compromise to make a bad system more tolerable and slow down the pvp killing snow ball that is Bioware.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.08.2020 , 11:11 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Nickodemous View Post
It working....end of story!
Working to kill pvp?

Joaina's Avatar


Joaina
08.09.2020 , 12:20 AM | #68
All that whining about the time penalty. Its brilliant!

Bioware do not listen to these wimps, finally a good Mechanic in the game. Keep it up!

Sappharan's Avatar


Sappharan
08.09.2020 , 04:52 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Joaina View Post
All that whining about the time penalty. Its brilliant
It's not whining when we are outlining our issues with the issues we have with the debuff. The debuff on its own is not the crux of the problem as such...it's that people are dissatisfied with it in CONJUNCTION with there being no ability to choose maps, there being no method of determining who is dropping voluntarily versus being affected by circumstances beyond a player's control, and the ongoing debate on the merits of allowing or disallowing premades and the havoc those premades can wreak on solo queue players.

Quote: Originally Posted by Joaina View Post
Bioware do not listen to these wimps, finally a good Mechanic in the game. Keep it up!
But, of course, we accept ad-hominem comments in place of cogent arguments in opposition to ours.

Sappharan's Avatar


Sappharan
08.09.2020 , 05:54 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Try playing when 75% of your pops are arena and you get ranked quality premade’s vs reg quality pugs. I’m sure you wouldn’t play solo during those matches or you’d stop queuing.

Sadly, the new lock out means we can’t even leave now. And with losses not counting towards the missions or conquest anymore, there is a lot of reasons to stop pvping altogether under those circumstances.

The whole situation is perfect storm to kill pvp outside of primetime.

1. Lock outs mean less players in the queue “if” they decide to leave
2. Losses don’t count towards mission completion or conquest. So totally unbalanced teams and matches are a waste of time.
3. Low pop environment means lots of arena matches.
4. Then add premaders to the mix and it ruins matches and the queue. You will lose 99% of the time.
This has been my experience. I enjoy PvP for the sake of PvP, but the sting of a loss is ameliorated by advancing a quest, even if only a little bit. So, it's not just wasting time for me, but it *IS* an exercise in frustration much of the time.

Being not particularly skilled, I am finding my win percentage tanking even from what it was before. I am not godawful...at least, not in the context of doing my job. I am a dps player. My damage, when compared to others in the same warzones is usually respectable, even decent much of the time. I pay attention to the objectives (even in buttball, though I loathe that map) and I do my best to stymie or kill healers, capture nodes/or prevent opponents from stopping us capturing them, and to chase opponents from capture points so we can claim them. I try not to chase kills where unnecessary. All of this, and I STILL find that I have to play five or six games before I get my daily completed. Is it luck? Poor play on my part? My team's poor play? No healers? I managed about a 40% to 50% win rate before...now it is less than half that. It may be premades...it may not be, but I do not think it is ONLY me and my skill (or lack thereof).

Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Which means it quickly becomes a complete waste of time queuing when you can’t even complete a daily.
Not a complete waste of time. We still earn those white boxes which contain an adrenal or two and a medpac or two, and sometimes a piece of gear, valor, and alignment points. Still, that's not enough. We need MORE participation in PvP, not less. When players view PvP as a gauntlet of frustration with no payout (more on that in a bit), they're not going to be inclined to participate. Here I completely agree with you. We need to be able to advance daily quests even during losses.

Those who hate "participation trophies" will mock us for advocating such a thing as it only encourages people to give minimum effort. Normally I agree on that score. However, we're getting that and *LESS* currently. And I predict, along with others, that it is only going to become even more prevalent. Trixxie has some nice compromises in mind:

Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
So less people queue and you have a self perpetuating situation of low pops. Hence my perfect storm analogy.

Eventually this is going to encroach on primetime pops too (these things always do). It will start to snow ball and it will kill pvp if Bioware don’t make changes before it hits critical mass.

Bioware would never consider getting rid of the ranked solo queue and letting “ranked” be a mix of puggers and premades because we know how unfair that would be. So if Bioware are going to continue having a deserter lockout and make losses not count towards the missions, then same consideration should be given to regs as they do to ranked.

So if they are determined to keep the same conditions in place, they need either :
1. Totally remove premades from the pug queue and give it a seperate queue (which I know will never happen because we don’t have a large enough population)
Or
2. They need to reduce premade sizes to two man (not perfect, but it is a compromise)
Or
3. They need to make it so losses still count (use the old point system)
Or
4. They need to remove the lock out timer for leaving reg matches (or they need to at least reduce the lock out time by half during low pop times)

If they are determined to keep a lock out timer and make it so wins are everything, then would set it up like this :
1. Premades are reduced to maximum of two man.
2. A win gives 3 points and a loss gives 1 point and you need 3 points complete the daily mission and 30 points to complete the weekly.
3. Reduce the lock out timer to 10 mins in high pop environment and 5 mins in a low pop environment. They also need to add a debuff symbol to your character so you can mouse over it and actually “see” how much time is left on it.
4. Remove lock outs completely from lowbies and Mids.
To some, your recommendation of allowing players to advance quests even during losses might be considered "participation trophies", but not to me. Some credit for effort should be accorded, I agree. Sports teams don't get the championship trophy for losing, (whatever the sport) but they still get paid. Professional sports leagues would die out if their athletes were not paid, even during losing seasons. They're given BONUSES for winning, but they still have contracts for just participating. Advancing our quests is that payment in my view.

I would like to add something to your suggestions: perhaps rewarding players BIG for winning games (the boxes that have gear and so forth) and rewarding the completion of daily quests to a considerably lesser extent. By rewarding players big for winning, the pool of players will increases. Paying them by allowing them to complete the daily and weekly quests, even for lost games, will retain them.

Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
None of what I’m suggesting is perfect and it won’t make everyone happy. It’s mostly a compromise to make a bad system more tolerable and slow down the pvp killing snow ball that is Bioware.
You have put thought into some solutions, and it shows. I can only hope that Bioware reads your post and gives it due consideration.

[The above is a bit confusing...I am tired...have not slept in 24 hours. Bouts of insomnia hit me occasionally. Part of the post I was responding one person, and some parts I was responding to general readers. Too tired to sort it out. Hopefully something of it makes sense to someone.]