I’ve had one good match, which was original HB and my team played the ball while the other team tried to death match 1-2 players who kept them busy. So that might have just been luck.

Note that here you made a mistake which is quite common: the fact that you win or have a better group doesn't make it a good match, as much as the fact that you lose or have a lesser group doesn't make it a bad match. As far as any matchmaking algorithm is concerned - a good match is a match in which the difference in group skill is minor, and a bad match is a match in which the difference is extreme. There is no POV for "good" or "bad" matches (I mean: a match can't be "good" for you and "bad" for your enemies), it is about looking at the match from above and seeing the balance of it.

From that definition of good and bad matches, your HB match was actually a bad match because only your team played objectively while the other focused on deathmatching. In the same manner, a voidstar which ends in the 1st minute of round 2 in your loss because their team managed to just barely hold the doors and yours got outplayed by some very smart mezz could still be a good match, with the combination of skill and luck determining the winner.

But I agree with the all the rest of your post. The fact that some good players got their loss rates increased by a sizeable amount to anything above 50% means that sometimes the matchmaking gives the opposite results than intended in balancing the game. Also, any game which does not involve premade and doesn't distribute bad players equally is also a result of a bad method of matchmaking (or the "moody" players I mentioned several posts ago. But BW can never solve their case).

IDK why do some good players get hurt more than others, but unless they are all lying, or selectively recalling only the bad matches, this can't be denied. While I see the reason behind keeping the details of matchmaking secret so that people can't cheat it easily, it should be definitely reconsidered by the devs.

No idea, but it wasn’t Eric who posted, it was the GSF dev and it’s in the GSF forum. The only reason I saw it was because I read dev tracker.

Please take a moment and think a bit...

I have a very strong feeling that the only matchmaking criteria is the time played in PVP across legacy just like in GSF or very close to it...

I am not a programming expert by far, but I seriously doubt Bioware would spend time creating very "complex" algorithms and criteria to make PVP groups for regs. Looking at these recent patches that did nothing except messing up the game even more, I find that unlikely.

Also, in my case... I think I have around 5000 PVP matches across legacy if not more... and that would be an explanation for why I am a getting soo trash groups lately. I rage quitted a lot of games recently and it's something I very rarely done in the past. Also, another criteria might be gear level. Furthermore, I am a solo quer.. I very rarely que with premdes and If my assumption is correct, this the reason why premades might have complained over getting terrible filler players. The premade counts as top player group and the game puts bads with them to create " balance".

I got a terrible voidstar game yesterday where we were 3 people geared and the rest of players hp was 115k maximum.. 4 of them had no stim and we were matched vs top guilds on DM Server who were very likely a premade... THey even had more heals than us, and I doubt we even had one to begin with.

This wasn't a single case... I had a lot more terrible groups and at this point, I'm really starting to notice that something is very off.

No idea what's behind it, but I could imagine the game wanting to put better players in terrible groups for the sake of "balance", meaning you, who in that particular group count as a the PVP god with your 4k games would carry or make the difference, which in this case is very very faulty.....

I think most people are just used to the idea of having an easy match or at the very least a team stacked in their favor with really good pvpers vs the enemy team being whatever. Now they get someone who is a bit behind in gear or skill and they start getting mad before the match even starts.

Why do I say this? because it happened to me when I started farming gear again the other day after a long break and was in 230 and people just started insulting me BEFORE the match started. So yeah at first I wasn't doing much as a 230 guardian but I need to start the grind somewhere right? and I don't have a lot of time to log in for the once in a full moon operation group in pub side. Eventually, I get to at least 236 and swap to tank ( If I do poor dps at the very least I know I can help with some dmg reduction) and guess what? I started getting top spots in the damn match because of doing objectives and helping with my specc even if my gear sucked and my dmg sucked even more. Still, people complained a lot before matches.

I remember this one arena ( ranked this time because I wanted to do the quest and get more uns. parts) and the guy went off on me and said I wanted to throw the match and shouldn't que. Guess what? we won that damn match.

So give people a chance and if possible just help a bit, doesn't have to be much maybe just get a strategy going before the match start instead of assuming everyone will fall in place in their own.

Also since the patch its been more balance matches than one-sided ones and to be honest I had more fun than before. Again I think most people ( specially Imps) are used to just have this one-sided matches all night and having fun because of the endless wins without much competition. Now they have to work a little more for a win or just don't win constantly and are crying about it.

Note that here you made a mistake which is quite common: the fact that you win or have a better group doesn't make it a good match, as much as the fact that you lose or have a lesser group doesn't make it a bad match. As far as any matchmaking algorithm is concerned - a good match is a match in which the difference in group skill is minor, and a bad match is a match in which the difference is extreme. There is no POV for "good" or "bad" matches (I mean: a match can't be "good" for you and "bad" for your enemies), it is about looking at the match from above and seeing the balance of it.

From that definition of good and bad matches, your HB match was actually a bad match because only your team played objectively while the other focused on deathmatching. In the same manner, a voidstar which ends in the 1st minute of round 2 in your loss because their team managed to just barely hold the doors and yours got outplayed by some very smart mezz could still be a good match, with the combination of skill and luck determining the winner.

 

But I agree with the all the rest of your post. The fact that some good players got their loss rates increased by a sizeable amount to anything above 50% means that sometimes the matchmaking gives the opposite results than intended in balancing the game. Also, any game which does not involve premade and doesn't distribute bad players equally is also a result of a bad method of matchmaking (or the "moody" players I mentioned several posts ago. But BW can never solve their case).

IDK why do some good players get hurt more than others, but unless they are all lying, or selectively recalling only the bad matches, this can't be denied. While I see the reason behind keeping the details of matchmaking secret so that people can't cheat it easily, it should be definitely reconsidered by the devs.

This ^, you explained it a lot better and your post about moody players too. Also unless we have concrete data people saying the system is bad because they have lost what? 10 matches out of what? 40 a week? maybe 1 bad day of losing doesnt mean the system is broken if you won the other 30 that week.

As a general note, I think one of the things that disturb matchmaking are the "moody" players, and by that I mean those who are sometimes in the "mood" to play objectively and sometimes don't bother because they are in the "mood" to farm numbers regardless of winning. That also includes such players who attempt to win only when they think the deck is stacked enough in their favor and don't bother otherwise, those who try to win only when premade and not otherwise, and those who play certain maps well but farm in other maps. Whatever criterias the matchmaking uses, for these guys it gets mixed results which are not indicative for their performance in the upcoming match. Sadly there is nothing exactly "bad" in their behavior, just very unpredictable as far as the matchmaking is concerned. Statistics can only tell so much about the unpredictable individual, and thus, you can get screwed with a player who is mostly good (which means him being in your group increases the group's matchmaking score, which means you get lesser players beside him overall), but currently he is in the mood of farming or doing something else unproductive (maybe even merely trying offspec or something), and the result is you have a worse group than you should have.

This is pretty much SWTOR pvp right now.

I just wish more people went for "opportunistic objectives." Like if you're a sage and you see your ball carrier, you can pull him away from enemies, or at least closer to the goal line. Or if you see your team 5v2'ing, then switch to the other node. Etc.

Be an opportunist.

This is pretty much SWTOR pvp right now.

I just wish more people went for "opportunistic objectives." Like if you're a sage and you see your ball carrier, you can pull him away from enemies, or at least closer to the goal line. Or if you see your team 5v2'ing, then switch to the other node. Etc.

 

Be an opportunist.

Yeah adapt , if you see 6 enemy not letting you get your pylon then go theirs and take it or make them defend it just adapt.

I rage quitted a lot of games recently and it's something I very rarely done in the past. Also, another criteria might be gear level.

I wouldn't do that. If matchmaking is more complex and calculates more factors, you have to bare with bad matches or else your rating will never drop and the situation won't change for you,

I got a terrible voidstar game yesterday where we were 3 people geared and the rest of players hp was 115k maximum.. 4 of them had no stim and we were matched vs top guilds on DM Server who were very likely a premade... THey even had more heals than us, and I doubt we even had one to begin with.

 

If they had a single healer within the premade it is possible. That, or your healer quitted before the match started. How was their non-premade half of the group? If they weren't better than your group, then your complaint is more relevant to "premade stack the deck versus solo queuers" (with which I always agreed) rather than a problem with the new matchmaking.

Since you are a good solo queuer, you can't possibly be in the same side as a premade of elites. That sadly means that if aside from you and the premade everyone are noobs, there is no other logical thing to do other than pit you against the premade with a disadvantage.

 

No idea what's behind it, but I could imagine the game wanting to put better players in terrible groups for the sake of "balance", meaning you, who in that particular group count as a the PVP god with your 4k games would carry or make the difference, which in this case is very very faulty.....

 

That's apparently precisely what they are doing, but you should never feel the deck stacked against you without a premade in the picture unless something isn't done properly on the program's end. A single PVP god in the group means that group should have the bottom 1 or 2 from the queue, not so much more. The other average and bad players also rate somewhere among themselves, and a single god + 7 bads wouldn't balance versus 8 averages. Maybe something more like god +3 average + 4 bads versus 4 averages + 4 bads, or (if the good is really good or if the bads aren't too bad) 1,2,5 vs 0,6,2

Be an opportunist.

I hope you meant that for people who are currently 100% deathmatchers. I rather the 100% objective players actually remain as they are

I have a very strong feeling that the only matchmaking criteria is the time played in PVP across legacy just like in GSF or very close to it...

I’m also starting to get the feeling this is how the match making is done in pvp. Which means the more you’ve played, the more likely you are to get grouped with a bunch of new pvpers.

Essentially, you could be the worse pvper in the game, but because youve played 1000 hours in pvp, the system rates you as highly skilled.

If that’s the case, I would ask Bioware to change it back how it use to be. Otherwise the people who have been longtime and loyal pvpers in this game will never get good groups. Time played doesn’t equal skill.

It’s leaves us with very few options

1. Start another fresh account

2. Stop pvping

3. Stop playing the game

4. Put up with losing constantly with bad teams

Numbers 2 and 4 are just not viable for me and even number 1 would be off putting as I already have 2 accounts and I’m not paying for another. Plus, it’s taken me 18 month to gear.

I think it I would be more likely to just stop playing.

I just wish more people went for "opportunistic objectives." Like if you're a sage and you see your ball carrier, you can pull him away from enemies, or at least closer to the goal line. Or if you see your team 5v2'ing, then switch to the other node. Etc.

 

Be an opportunist.

That’s how we always use to play and how I still do play on my sage/Sorc.

Yeah adapt , if you see 6 enemy not letting you get your pylon then go theirs and take it or make them defend it just adapt.

Something that makes me want to pull my hair out are players who follow the enemy when they switch nodes because of an inc call.

A tactic I use a lot to help my team to cap when there are too many enemies, is to go to the other enemy off node and make them call incs. This often makes them panic and half or more of the enemy team will come running to where I am to back up.

I pride myself in being able to make a guard panic and then hold their team up long enough for my guys to cap.

What drives me crazy is when I pull 3/4 of their team to me and only me at the off node and my idiot team chases them instead of using the numbers advantage I’ve given them to push the other node and cap. I’ve literally watch my whole team abondon trying to take mid and follow their whole team to me.

After this happens multiple times, I get so frustrated that I end up yelling at them to stop following me and take the other node. At which point I get told to L2P. That’s when you know the game is a lost cause and it’s time to requeue and break the rotation with the fools you are with,

If that’s the case, I would ask Bioware to change it back how it use to be.

I agree with everything but this. Why change it back while just in these threads people have raised so much better alternative matchmaking criterias? Indeed time played is probably the most terrible way to calculate skill (imagine I played 5000 hours as a sniper and now I try healing. It would consider me the best healer in the world just because I was an average sniper?), but rather than remove matchmaking, the method needs to be replaced.

To be honest I don't care if whatever method they need to implement will have to start from scratch without considering the past. The 1st few games will simply happen as if there is no matchmaking, and around 20 games later the rating will be already quite accurate for most people. [i strongly suggest NOT to premade in these 1st matches per character, if that is the case, though]

I agree with everything but this. Why change it back while just in these threads people have raised so much better alternative matchmaking criterias? Indeed time played is probably the most terrible way to calculate skill (imagine I played 5000 hours as a sniper and now I try healing. It would consider me the best healer in the world just because I was an average sniper?), but rather than remove matchmaking, the method needs to be replaced.

 

To be honest I don't care if whatever method they need to implement will have to start from scratch without considering the past. The 1st few games will simply happen as if there is no matchmaking, and around 20 games later the rating will be already quite accurate for most people. [i strongly suggest NOT to premade in these 1st matches per character, if that is the case, though]

I only say change it back, “if” they aren’t willing to put some effort into a real matchmaking system. Which lets face it, if they made this system based only on how long you’ve played, there is little hope of them listening to any of the alternate ways of doing it because that would cost time and money. Otherwise, why didn’t they do that to start with.

I think they’ve already washed their hands of this patch and have started to move onto the next content patch. I can’t see them putting that on hold to make a whole new matchmaking system. If they were going to do that, they could have done it with this patch.

I’m finding all this secrecy on how this match making works becoming more suspicious the longer they stay silent on our requests and feed back on how matchmaking is not working. You only keep things secret when you’ve got something to hide,

I still have a tiny hope we will hear something from them this week to clear up what is supposed to happen with it. But if we don’t hear anything this week after all the discussions and feed back on how it’s not working, then I don’t think we ever will. They will ignore this subject completely, the same as they do with anything they want to go away.

At that point, the options become more clear to people who dislike this system in its current state. I’m actually holding off buying some new hardware this week incase I need to consider other games besides this one.

I only say change it back, “if” they aren’t willing to put some effort into a real matchmaking system. Which lets face it, if they made this system based only on how long you’ve played, there is little hope of them listening to any of the alternate ways of doing it because that would cost time and money. Otherwise, why didn’t they do that to start with.

 

I think they’ve already washed their hands of this patch and have started to move onto the next content patch. I can’t see them putting that on hold to make a whole new matchmaking system. If they were going to do that, they could have done it with this patch.

 

I’m finding all this secrecy on how this match making works becoming more suspicious the longer they stay silent on our requests and feed back on how matchmaking is not working. You only keep things secret when you’ve got something to hide,

 

I still have a tiny hope we will hear something from them this week to clear up what is supposed to happen with it. But if we don’t hear anything this week after all the discussions and feed back on how it’s not working, then I don’t think we ever will. They will ignore this subject completely, the same as they do with anything they want to go away.

 

At that point, the options become more clear to people who dislike this system in its current state. I’m actually holding off buying some new hardware this week incase I need to consider other games besides this one.

Last evening PVP was probably another all time low.... I am seriously thinking of quitting the game right now. Getting bad teams and having enemy team walk over you isn't fun. WHAT THE ********* ????? I am dead 10 seconds after respawn because no matter where I go, 5 enemies respond to calls in packs and my team is clueless.. no call, no focus, no nothing.....

Also, I am starting to notice a very very bad new trend in PVP now: People get in match, look around at their teams composition and see bads then quit... This is really bad and a side effect of "balanced matchmaking". When I get in game and see 2 or 3 people quit, that's already bad news for the game ahead meaning: congratulations, for the sake of balance the game has put you in another clueless team, enjoy" :mad:

On my legacy I have over 7000 PVP games played and I am not deleting or reloading another account to take part in this stupidity. Bring back old matchmaking and make sure each team has heals. Thank you. That's all we need

Last evening PVP was probably another all time low.... I am seriously thinking of quitting the game right now. Getting bad teams and having enemy team walk over you isn't fun. WHAT THE ********* ????? I am dead 10 seconds after respawn because no matter where I go, 5 enemies respond to calls in packs and my team is clueless.. no call, no focus, no nothing.....

 

Also, I am starting to notice a very very bad new trend in PVP now: People get in match, look around at their teams composition and see bads then quit... This is really bad and a side effect of "balanced matchmaking". When I get in game and see 2 or 3 people quit, that's already bad news for the game ahead meaning: congratulations, for the sake of balance the game has put you in another clueless team, enjoy" :mad:

 

On my legacy I have over 7000 PVP games played and I am not deleting or reloading another account to take part in this stupidity. Bring back old matchmaking and make sure each team has heals. Thank you. That's all we need

Forgive me for assuming that you have a habit of exaggerating or using hyperbole given these statements in the last day. Alternatively, you have done 2k PVP matches in the last 24 hours, in which case, I am very impressed.

I think I have around 5000 PVP matches across legacy

I have over 6000 games in PVP across my legacy

I have over 7000 PVP games played

Hey folks,

 

Please use this thread to post your feedback on the 5.9.2 Matchmaking Changes. A few reminders:

• Our goals are to shorten the WZ and GSF queues while also ensuring matches are more fair in all modes.
  
• Please try to reserve your feedback until after you have played the changes on PTS.
  
• Make sure to include as many specifics as possible that are relevant to your feedback.
  
• If your feedback is about a bug, please use the PTS bug report forum. This thread is aimed solely at feedback.
  

You can find a full list of the changes, here:

 

 

• All Warzone and Starfighter queues are now cross-faction
  
• The Unranked Warzone queue will now always prioritize Warzones over Arenas. An Arena match will only pop if there are not enough players to populate a full Warzone match at that time.
  
• Role Balancing:
  
  • Matchmaking will never place more than 2 tanks or healers on the same team in a Warzone or 1 tank or healer for an Arena.
    
  • Matchmaking will always do its best to balance the amount of tanks and healers on each team. If there are 2 healers, each team will receive one if possible, the same is true of tanks.
    
  • In situations where there are an odd number of tanks / healers, matchmaking will do its best to place the combined number of tanks and healers evenly (example: there are 3 healers and 1 tank, matchmaking will attempt to make the teams 2 healers vs 1 tank 1 healer.)
    

  [*]Skill Balancing:

  • Matchmaking will more strongly take player skill into account when making teams.
    
  • Premade groups queuing for Ranked and Unranked Warzones and GSF will now have their matchmaking skill based on the highest rated member, not the team’s average rating.
    
  • Galactic Starfighter matchmaking has been improved to better account for player experience along with their currently selected ship loadout.
    

 

-eric

Eric specifically mentioned experience (which I assume means games played, since there isn't another way to look at that) with regards to GSF, whereas everythign else he said was about both GSF and PVP. They are looking at skill, but they are not going to release it so people can't game the system, because I guarantee, as soon as they do release the info, people will immediately start throwing matches to get lower rating. There was literally a thread about this a few days ago about people throwing matches in lowbies in order to game the system, and if they release the actual results, it will tell a lot.

If you (and the others who are saying "matchmaking is broken") want to be taken seriously, take screenshots of the final results of a bunch of matches. We can see the scores, we can see the DPS/Healing/Guarding/Objectives, and then we can discuss it. But right now, all it is is anecdotal people who have played a lot of PVP, and have said many times that they are good, are being put on teams with people who are pretty bad, which is literally what matchmaking is designed to do.

Also, don't bother including matches that required backfilling. The only match that I was in since the patch dropped that I would say was a "stomp" (i.e. a significant difference in final outcome objectively speaking) was one where at the end of the match, my team has 17 names listed on it, vs. the 8 on the other team. I'm willing to give BW a pass on backfilling matches, because better to at least have a body then it be 5v8 the whole match.

Last evening PVP was probably another all time low.... I am seriously thinking of quitting the game right now. Getting bad teams and having enemy team walk over you isn't fun. WHAT THE ********* ????? I am dead 10 seconds after respawn because no matter where I go, 5 enemies respond to calls in packs and my team is clueless.. no call, no focus, no nothing.....

 

Also, I am starting to notice a very very bad new trend in PVP now: People get in match, look around at their teams composition and see bads then quit... This is really bad and a side effect of "balanced matchmaking". When I get in game and see 2 or 3 people quit, that's already bad news for the game ahead meaning: congratulations, for the sake of balance the game has put you in another clueless team, enjoy" :mad:

 

On my legacy I have over 7000 PVP games played and I am not deleting or reloading another account to take part in this stupidity. Bring back old matchmaking and make sure each team has heals. Thank you. That's all we need

I’m very close to doing this myself. Either they fix the match making properly or they revert it to how it was. If this rubbish continues after the patch on Wednesday. I’ll be taking a break and consider making it a permanent one.

 

If you (and the others who are saying "matchmaking is broken") want to be taken seriously, take screenshots of the final results of a bunch of matches. We can see the scores, we can see the DPS/Healing/Guarding/Objectives, and then we can discuss it. But right now, all it is is anecdotal people who have played a lot of PVP, and have said many times that they are good, are being put on teams with people who are pretty bad, which is literally what matchmaking is designed to do.

Ive already posted 2 and I have many more. How many do you think I need to post before I prove what I’m saying is true?

Also, I am starting to notice a very very bad new trend in PVP now: People get in match, look around at their teams composition and see bads then quit... This is really bad and a side effect of "balanced matchmaking". When I get in game and see 2 or 3 people quit, that's already bad news for the game ahead meaning: congratulations, for the sake of balance the game has put you in another clueless team, enjoy" :mad:

 

On my legacy I have over 7000 PVP games played and I am not deleting or reloading another account to take part in this stupidity. Bring back old matchmaking and make sure each team has heals. Thank you. That's all we need

You said yourself that the problem is the good players who quit before the match begins. I will add and say that the problem is the good players who quit before the match ENDS. The matchmaker already accounts for players more or less skilled than others, and can even be programmed to account for players who can't or won't play objectively. It will never be able to account for any kind of quitters, which includes map-haters ("huttball? I am out", "Odessen? I am out"), team haters ("I know 3 of these guys suck, I am out"), and rage quitters (no explanation required).

The situation prior to the matchmaking was that if all players do their best efforts in the game and stay all games till the end, they still could get an infinite loss streak due to premades on the other faction or simple continuous bad luck with the number of healers or skilled players. Of course, it was still possible for players to screw their team by leaving the match.

The situation currently is that most matches will be good if players do their best efforts and stay all games till the end, but apparently, BioWare overestimated their players, because too many people quit when they don't see a guaranteed victory (before or after the match begins is irrelevant).

I am getting actually more and more certain that the matchmaking is better than we think and it is the players screwing it other and other again. My worst ground and GSF matches since the patch involved players with recognizable names on my team who either quit before the match, quit once the tide seemed to turn against them, or turned 85% of their focus to chat toxicity rather than fighting when the slightest mistake has been made. A very good operative, for example, who can easily solo-cap a node by either mezzing or solo-killing the guard in a matter of seconds, stealthed in a corner and cursed the single PT who got globaled by 2 snipers and a jugg and lost the node rather than simply take the node from the sole jugg they stupidly left to guard there. I ended up trying to do it in his stead with my sin tank, but I can hardly kill a jugg as fast as an operative, so they managed to save the node every time I did so, and we lost. Had that elitist moron attacked the node alone or with my help, we would have certainly won. He ended up in the bottom of nearly every criteria, by the way, even though even if he number farmed he would get something high...

I think I already know the answer to this, but is there anyway you can check how many pvp matches you’ve been in. I’ve not been able to find anything.

The only way I’ve been able to get a rough idea is based on hours played, divided by my average pop times and match lengths. Then try to work out the differences of my pop times over the years (lots of guess work).

Now, I’ve not done a /played reading on each of my Alts since a few months after 5.0 released and I honestly can’t be arsed doing it again on 50+ Alts (which doesn’t include the 30 I deleted)

What I do know is the last time I did a count, my time played over both my accounts added up to over 16000+ hours playing this game approximately 8 hours a day since launch (obviously some small gaps here and there).

So let’s say I average 5 out of those 8 hours playing pvp, which means I’ve probbaly played 11-12000 hours of pvp in this game.

Now, according to many on this forum, I’m a **** pvper (there opinion, not mine), but let’s say it’s true for academic reasons to make a point.

If this match making is based on how much pvp you’ve played and you’re a bad player with tonnes of pvp time under your belt, the system still reads you as a skilled and experienced player. Which means you will always get stacked with bads because “you’re supposed to be good” and will balance them out.

All that means is the other people on your team are lumped in with player who may have less skill than them, just because theyve had heaps of pvp time.

There are other factors too. What about when they moved the servers from APAC and then the west coast. My ping went from 20ms to over 260-300ms.

Is the skill system going to take into account my ping from then to now.? Of course it’s not, but one could argue that I took a huge performance drop because of the massive increase in lag and that decreased my skill as well.

My point is, playing lots of pvp doesn’t equate to skill. It just means you had plenty of time on your hands. There needs to be other parameters in the algorithm to determine the match making or it’s a farce.

And I can tell you flat out that the “gear” part isn’t working at all because I’ve had so many matches on my new lvl 70s in low gear 230-236 and been the highest geared on my team, while the other team has all 248+236 Augments equiped.

Bioware don’t have to release or make public the actual data. But they should be transparent on what the algorithm takes into account when balancing. This “skill” figure is the problem one because it could be from time played, total wins vs loss, MVPs, medals, etc. And non of those equal skill. And what if it’s only one of figures, that makes it even worse.

What ever they are doing, it’s bugged or the algorithm is not set up correctly. Until we know what the parameters are, we can be sure what is going on. All I know is it’s destroying my enjoyment of pvp and I’m closemto quiting

You said yourself that the problem is the good players who quit before the match begins. I will add and say that the problem is the good players who quit before the match ENDS. The matchmaker already accounts for players more or less skilled than others, and can even be programmed to account for players who can't or won't play objectively. It will never be able to account for any kind of quitters, which includes map-haters ("huttball? I am out", "Odessen? I am out"), team haters ("I know 3 of these guys suck, I am out"), and rage quitters (no explanation required).

 

The situation prior to the matchmaking was that if all players do their best efforts in the game and stay all games till the end, they still could get an infinite loss streak due to premades on the other faction or simple continuous bad luck with the number of healers or skilled players. Of course, it was still possible for players to screw their team by leaving the match.

 

The situation currently is that most matches will be good if players do their best efforts and stay all games till the end, but apparently, BioWare overestimated their players, because too many people quit when they don't see a guaranteed victory (before or after the match begins is irrelevant).

 

It’s for those reasons, that for match making to work (when it’s fixed), there needs to be a penalty for leaving matches. I’ve always been against that idea and it will piss me off too cause I hate Odessen and leave every time. But for matchmaking to work, there needs to be a penalty for leaving matches.

It’s for those reasons, that for match making to work (when it’s fixed), there needs to be a penalty for leaving matches. I’ve always been against that idea and it will piss me off too cause I hate Odessen and leave every time. But for matchmaking to work, there needs to be a penalty for leaving matches.

If they add an option to not queue for certain matches or to queue for others they could add a quitter penalty and get away with a forced matchmaking system then.

I am not sold there's any difference now compared to the past. I have had some really very competitive matches and then some real stinkers. But, I had that before match-making was supposedly implemented, mostly.

Regarding the close matches I have had, they have been in huttball. I mean they were so close, even Quesh huttball was fun. Down to the last carry of the ball... I rarely used to have close matches like that and so far since the new patch, I have had a few.

So who knows? Just chance? luck? Until they spill the beans and explain how their match-making is supposed to be working and what it is doing, I have to chalk all this chatter up to nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

It seems people's experiences are varied and different from one another atm. Is it because match-making is working in some screwy way that matches players based on a stat we are unaware of? Or, are people simply only seeing what they want to see subliminally? No one knows, except BW.

It’s for those reasons, that for match making to work (when it’s fixed), there needs to be a penalty for leaving matches. I’ve always been against that idea and it will piss me off too cause I hate Odessen and leave every time. But for matchmaking to work, there needs to be a penalty for leaving matches.

There is the most tricky part: what is "penalty"?

On the one hand, if quitting matches REDUCES rating - quitting is an easy way to get better groups, and thus people might exploit it by quitting 3 matches and playing every 4th, having better groups than they deserve each time they play.

On the other hand, if quitting matches INCREASES rating - a rage quitter or a troll quitter will have their rating far higher than their skill, which means 2 bad results:

1. The rage quitter's groups will get just worse and worse (because he is so "good" according to his rating), which will make him ragequit more which will further increase his rating aaaaand... Snowball effect. For this I guess it would be fair to say its his own fault and he takes the hit for it.

2. More importantly: The group of that quitter will be in a great disadvantage because his initial presence increased the total group rating unfairly, which means that besides him, the group is less good than the opposing group. After he leaves, unless a really good backfilling happens, his group will be unfairly stomped.

So far we have concluded that any rating related penalty is bad: Reduction rewards the quitter and Increase punishes his innocent team members.

The next option is a lockout penalty or a valor penalty. But here there are also two options:

If the lockout or valor loss is too great - the number of AFK-in-the-corner-and-spouting-toxic-comments morons will greatly increase, which is definitely bad. If it is insignificant, people will just ignore it.

I would be sincerely happy if you have other ideas or holes in my reasonings to dismiss all of the above ideas. Just saying creating a penalty for leaving without terrible consequences isn't that easy.

The above problems theoretically exist in all games which have matchmaking, by the way. I seriously wonder why does the PVP community here have leavers more common than in other games. My guess is either the situation in other games is not better, but people here complain more, or the situation here is worse BECAUSE people blame the game mechanics and thus feel easier on themselves with quitting, or for some reason, this game attracts more trash people. Hopefully, it isn't the last reason...

To me, this matchmaking system feels like punishment for years of being relatively successful in warzones. Whatever metric they employ in their algorithm, whether it be valor, play time, win ratio, total warzones played, to reach their "hidden rating", negatively impacts people like me, and those I've played with and against for years.

Too many times I've entered a warzone to notice I have an inverse, a low or even ungeared person forced upon me for what can be construed as balance purposes . Add a few friends to a group and the issue is multiplied. I generally have no problem with these people, they pay their subs, they have a right to play too. I'm not an elitist. However, there comes a point at which no amount of effort can overcome the obstacle of propping these people up. This is very discouraging.

In the situation described above, I tend to leave immediately. In the off chance I decide to stay, only to realize in the first 60 seconds that the outcome is already decided, I leave. Prior to this patch this would not be the case. The point of emphasis is If I lose, I want to lose to circumstances unrelated to some sort of balancing system.

These are not just my feelings, they're shared among everyone I associate with. I'm afraid our confidence in the developers and policy makers in this game is reaching an all time low.

Some sort of compromise must be made.

Dawt.

To me, this matchmaking system feels like punishment for years of being relatively successful in warzones. Whatever metric they employ in their algorithm, whether it be valor, play time, win ratio, total warzones played, to reach their "hidden rating", negatively impacts people like me, and those I've played with and against for years.

 

Too many times I've entered a warzone to notice I have an inverse, a low or even ungeared person forced upon me for what can be construed as balance purposes . Add a few friends to a group and the issue is multiplied. I generally have no problem with these people, they pay their subs, they have a right to play too. I'm not an elitist. However, there comes a point at which no amount of effort can overcome the obstacle of propping these people up. This is very discouraging.

 

In the situation described above, I tend to leave immediately. In the off chance I decide to stay, only to realize in the first 60 seconds that the outcome is already decided, I leave. Prior to this patch this would not be the case. The point of emphasis is If I lose, I want to lose to circumstances unrelated to some sort of balancing system.

 

These are not just my feelings, they're shared among everyone I associate with. I'm afraid our confidence in the developers and policy makers in this game is reaching an all time low.

 

Some sort of compromise must be made.

 

Dawt.

Imagine the situation from above: You are a good player and you are in the queue premade with your friends. Except for you the are 4 terrible players and 8 average players. If we want a fair match to be made, and all the good players can't be seperated because they are a part of a premade, is it fair to make the groups in a way that the premade side has also 4 average solo queuers against 4 averages and 4 bads? It sucks for the good guys but the least people get screwed if the good guys get the bad guys.

Play enough and bare with some bad groups without quitting, and your rating will probably go down enough so that your groups aren't so terrible anymore and you can win kinda normally again. I am not certain how is the matchmaking rating supposed to work but it is very likely leaving messes it up and it might be against the leaver (especially if there is a win/loss counter involved).