Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Lack of Technological Change

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Lack of Technological Change

MadDutchman's Avatar


MadDutchman
06.29.2020 , 06:25 PM | #11
Relative tech levels are hard to determine. We know they have the same kinds of technology, but we don't know how effective it is, since we never see a direct comparison. I mean, a imagine a TOR era ship going up against a Star Destroyer. We really don't know how it would fair (probably badly)

We also can't assume just because technological growth is rapid IRL right now, that it is always that way in every setting. Even nowadays, many fields of study are only making slow incremental advancements. Others are arguably barking up the wrong tree and may not be making any advancements at all (the history of science, especially physics, is loaded with examples of scientists chasing red herrings for decades/centuries (aether anyone?)).
As advancement continues, the cost of further advances continues to increase. Often times this cost can be offset by other related advancements (ex. increased complexity of vehicles is offset by increased sophistication of manufacturing processes). This every increasing sophistication we see requires ever increasing quantities of resources. So it is not illogical that in a society far more advanced than our own, they may very well have been held back by scarcity, be it of material, personnel etc.
Throw in wars, industrial sabotage, plagues and good old fashioned corruption and bureaucratic ineptitude and I don't think it's all that far fetched.
I Have Spoken

Use my referral link for free goodies.

Ardrossan's Avatar


Ardrossan
07.09.2020 , 10:22 PM | #12
1) 1000 generations is not 2500 years. It is around 20,000 years. Yeah. That is why it's set back so far and this corresponds to Wookieepedia too. - they date the republic's birth to 25,000 years Before the Battle of Yavin. It's a little mind-boggling, in-universe, to think about all the empty space there is to fill up in the timeline. Out-of-universe, well lol this is a great example of crazy fans thinking every silly thing George Lucas wrote is incontrovertible scripture. "Hey maybe Obi-Wan was just exagger--" "NO! Obi-Wan always tells the truth! If he said 1000 generations then that's how long it is!"

2) To me what's strange isn't that the technology stays the same up into OT era, because lots of fantasy settings have technological stagnation. No, what's strange is looking at the technology circa the Great Hyperspace War, about 1400 years before the events of this game, and a fleet looked like this, to now. Like, most Jedi and Sith had to PLUG IN their lightsabers back then. Then like 1000 years go by and by the time of the Mandalorian Wars everything looks pretty familiar. More swords, disposable energy shields and spikes but otherwise same tech.

So in 4000 years, there's very little technological change overall; if anything the Republic has better tech now than they do in the prequels. But in the 1000 years between the first Sith invasion and the mandalorian wars 400 years before this game, there was MASSIVE change.

I was thinking of writing a fanfic to try to explain this, but the short answer is the military-industrial complex is responsible for a lot of change relatively quickly. My headcanon is that when the military is no longer needed to field massive armies against space wizards, everything slows down and people in the Republic misplace the records that explain Chiss, Rakata, Zakuul [a notable upside], Silencers, Planet Prisons and insta-heal kolto. Out-of-universe, of course, the explanation is that BW wanted a familiar setting so KOTOR looked similar to the prequels and TOR looks similar to KOTOR.
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
Any true Jedi or Sith knows that it's not enough to defeat Malgus physically, you have to defeat him fashionably if you want to truly conquer the universe.

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
07.15.2020 , 05:23 AM | #13
This will always be an issue since when you look at the chronology of SW we have started with the newest movies and all other "stuff" mostly dealth with how it was before (not taking into account the newest trilogy, which was about moving forward). This means that the developers face the challenge of making up technology, which is actually out of date when comparing to the newest movies.

For example in case of ship design I have to say that the devs did a good job as they made decent looking ships, but also they look crap compared to the "modern" ships. An X-wing is far better than anything we have in GSF. Mainly the imperial fighters are terrible so that definitely improved. The Star Destroyers are also OK, since they are just following this type of model from like eternity.

A different thing is the technology used. For example we have the lighsabers, which are the same for eons, since its again tradition. However, I liked the one comment which was in this thread:

Quote: Originally Posted by DaZeeZee View Post
The Star Wars universe is by intention from the writers, Stagnant by nature. technological improvements are regularly lost and re discovered to keep a general level of tech over tens of thousands of years.
Here its well said since we have for example the Rakata, who had advanced technology, but it was lost. There are many such cases where a technology was developed but then it was for example destroyed, banned or what ever and therefore lost. They seem to be trying to keep a certain level of technology overall, but there are sometimes breakthroughs that actually stay, like in the new trilogy the tracking of ships in hyperspace.

There are was also one more good post:

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
True, although that doesn't stop tech in one place from developing, whether or not it then diffuses rapidly.
Here the clones are a good example. Cloning was a technology, but there were not many who actually mastered it. On Kamino we know that they mastered it quite well and therefore cloned the whole army. This was just one place, one planet, so you would have many such place in the universe where they developed a specific technology, which was nowhere else. But then came the point above that it was either banned, lost, etc.

So overall I am fine with this game as part of SW since they are doing a good job of not jumping ahead, but still providing reasonable additions to the SW universe.
Merovejec
7 days of being a sub, try it! Referral Link

Ardrossan's Avatar


Ardrossan
07.15.2020 , 08:49 PM | #14
I guess. I'm not very happy with this idea of naturally forgetting tech. The jedi had holographs going back 20,000 years still in use on Tython, but we're to believe that between now and the prequels, virtually every discovery in this era gets forgotten. I think there needs to be something more to justify that. You'll note that in the comparison to the Rakata, their species went extinct/regressed to a more primitive form/went underground. For this level of civilizational forgetting, there needs to be something equivalent happening to the Republic in the near future.
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
Any true Jedi or Sith knows that it's not enough to defeat Malgus physically, you have to defeat him fashionably if you want to truly conquer the universe.

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
07.16.2020 , 12:30 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Ardrossan View Post
I guess. I'm not very happy with this idea of naturally forgetting tech. The jedi had holographs going back 20,000 years still in use on Tython, but we're to believe that between now and the prequels, virtually every discovery in this era gets forgotten. I think there needs to be something more to justify that. You'll note that in the comparison to the Rakata, their species went extinct/regressed to a more primitive form/went underground. For this level of civilizational forgetting, there needs to be something equivalent happening to the Republic in the near future.
A good example is also the Gravestone. Such a powerful ship and it was just lying there in the swamp and then again it was forgotten as we didnt see something like that in the current movies. Imagine how it would decimate imperial fleets of star destroyers lined up next to eachother.
Merovejec
7 days of being a sub, try it! Referral Link

Ardrossan's Avatar


Ardrossan
07.16.2020 , 09:46 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
A good example is also the Gravestone. Such a powerful ship and it was just lying there in the swamp and then again it was forgotten as we didnt see something like that in the current movies. Imagine how it would decimate imperial fleets of star destroyers lined up next to eachother.
We don't know exactly how the Gravestone ended up there, but the story suggests that the species who designed the gravestone all went extinct. Again, there's a common theme: if you want to forget something BIG like a fleet-destroying semi-divine supership, then something BIG and BAD needs to happen to the civilization that created the tech.
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
Any true Jedi or Sith knows that it's not enough to defeat Malgus physically, you have to defeat him fashionably if you want to truly conquer the universe.

DaZeeZee's Avatar


DaZeeZee
07.17.2020 , 08:20 AM | #17
There is a fleet tactic that counters the gravestone. its called dont fly your ships close enough to each other for the omnicannon to chain!

but apparently no one thought of that. lucky us.