Hopefully, this will be viewed as constructive feedback. And, hey, this is my second non-white knighting post in as many days (and ever lolz )...

 

With respect to the new Flashpoint, Traitor among the Chiss (TatC): This post starts from the assumption that the following two premises are true -- that boss encounters are a function of two primary variables:

 

1) Do you understand and are capable of responding to the mechanics; and

 

2) (If solo) are you properly geared, know your rotations, and have the correct traits chosen.

 

I have now run the FP 6 times including 4 DPS, 1 Tank, 1 Healer. Let's also stipulate that with the tank and healer spec, the boss fights will take longer, but your survivability is higher. I think most would agree that is an acceptable trade-off.

 

While I like the clear distinction of phases between the bosses, they take a LONG, LONG time to take down. The characters I ran through were all minimum Ilvl 242, including augments, though some admittedly were at 220, not 228.

 

But once you know the mechanics of the fight -- spending the next couple minutes in each phase doing the exact same thing, knowing you won't die because even Ensign Temple Healer Level 1 (or DPS depending on spec) could keep you alive, got old fast.

 

Proposed solution: Shave some of the HP off the bosses. While some may call me a noob crying out for a nerf -- it's really about not getting bored in some of the fights.

 

Regards,

 

Dasty

Edited November 30, 2017 by Jdast

I did the solo version, and thought the bosses was HP sponges. The only exception seems to be the second boss, in that it feels more like a normal elite boss, with only slightly more HP.

 

The first droid guardian boss and the last boss are just boring to fight due the huge HP pool. It took me about ~20 minutes total to beat both of those HP sponge bosses.

 

They do need to tune the bosses a bit down HP wise to make it less boring.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Otowi
Corrected various typos.

The icecat boss is rediculous. Mind you, I believe he's optional, especially given the achievement you get for downing him, but still.

 

I'm a 247 ilvl assassin, and it still took a solid 10 minutes to kill him. At no time was I in danger, mind you, as it was solo mode for the story advancement, but it still seemed a bit tedious.

I don't mind the amount of hp bosses have, as I have found the fights to be great as class/discipline combinations I'm actually familiar with (and have a decent rotation), and too long with class/discipline combinations I'm unfamiliar with/have a very vague idea of rotation of. However, I believe the hp will get nerfed eventually since other solo content doesn't actually require you to have a good rotation.

I don't mind the amount of hp bosses have, as I have found the fights to be great as class/discipline combinations I'm actually familiar with (and have a decent rotation), and too long with class/discipline combinations I'm unfamiliar with/have a very vague idea of rotation of. However, I believe the hp will get nerfed eventually since other solo content doesn't actually require you to have a good rotation.

 

I take your point, and to your credit, it encouraged me to pay a bit more attention during some of the fights with respect to what I prefer to call 'prioritization vs. rotation.' I emphasize that term because I've often found that the 'so-called optimal rotation' is much different in group vs. solo play and varies greatly depending on how much movement is involved and the class you are playing. But I digress and that's for a different thread.

 

In any case, I just ran it through again since I first posted on my Gunslinger. Went smoothly, but I have a laptop next to my desktop...I still was focused on my laptop a bit toward the end (no it wasn't **** you pervs) a couple times.

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

I don't mind it. It should maintain a certain amount of difficulty and/or tedium to justify the value of the decoration and armor drops.

I know how to play my classes, and the optimal rotations. But that solo version (the one with the real story, not the one for grinding) is a beast. The character I ran it with first (guardian jk with a lvl 1 temple) only has an avg gear rating of 219. I only died once, but I was able to use my heroic moment on that first droid 5 times! The others I hit it at least 3 times. Someone who doesn't fully know their class will get decimated. I agree it needs to be toned down a lil bit.

I ran it with the level 1 Temple (orange tier 4 crate gear Marauder, whatever gear level that is) and never had an issue on Solo mode, never died either. Are people running it in a different mode? I've seen people saying they're dying left and right etc.and expected a ton of bugs and got none also, but mind you I only ran it once. Only issues I saw were a few mobs that weren't target-able and almost NO mobs had loot out of the several billion I had to kill. The bosses do take a while to down, and the overall FP was boring as sin by the end because it all took so long. Didn't know there was an achieve for killing the icecat, now I have to do it again .

.....I have now run the FP 6 times including 4 DPS, 1 Tank, 1 Healer. Let's also stipulate that with the tank and healer spec, the boss fights will take longer, but your survivability is higher. I think most would agree that is an acceptable trade-off....

 

You ran it 6 TIMES???

Are you a glutton for punishment?

Okay, okay. All theatrics aside (I was just being silly with my previous two statements ), I am not exactly looking forward to running the new FP the way it is now.

I finally did the FP yesterday.

My honest, initial reaction was that the SWTOR team was trying too hard, especially that first boss. I didn't find solo mode necessarily hard at all with Temple healing you (I was a juggernaut dps with Temple in her healing stance). I did feel though that the boss fight was very time consuming. It seemed the adds just kept spawning and spawning with not enough time to focus on the actual boss.

I thought the environment, as in the way the FP visually appeared, was very well done. It made me think of Makeb meets sun set Rishi, and that's a good thing.

I really do think the SWTOR team was trying, really, really hard to deliver a good FP. I did think some of the boss mechanics had some interesting flavors. The first boss while I do have some suggestions for it, I feel they were on the right track; they just overshot what should have been their mark, if that makes sense . The second boss where you have to change levels; I thought that was an interesting concept. The third boss, I found the third boss not perfect but overall more or less acceptable.

 

Proposed solution: Shave some of the HP off the bosses. While some may call me a noob crying out for a nerf -- it's really about not getting bored in some of the fights.

 

Regards,

 

Dasty

 

*Oh, my! This is a historic moment Dasty and I agree on something. :eek::eek:

(Just kidding, don't take that too seriously ).

In all seriousness, yes. The first boss definitely, I feel, should have less HP, and if I may, have a longer wait in between adds spawning.

I appreciate the boss for what it's trying to do. It just needs some refinement. This is actual criticism, as in a critique. I don't feel the whole boss fight should be remade from the ground up.

I think the third boss could stand to have less HP and maybe a few other mechanics to "spice things up", but that's just me.

 

A good boss fight for me doesn't mean it takes a long time to kill. A good boss fight challenges me, as in I should not be able to just stand there idol and have my companion kill the boss without any risk of me dying, and keeps me on my toes but is not impossibly hard, at least for solo mode. I know it's hard in practice to balance out a good boss fight, but it can be done.

 

Mind you, my perspective was a solo player specced as melee dps. I don't know how things are different if done with a group or done HM with a group.

I do not remember exactly how much time it took. But the flashpoint seemed to me very, very long. It would be beautiful and interesting flashpoint, but… not. Because of two problems:

1. a lot of mobs, which are simply boring;

2. and monotonous bosses, which have a lot of HP and noninterruptible actions (exepted Walker’s support).

My main character lighting sorc, geared in full 248 with 228 augments, solo mode was not difficult, but I'm tired of killing all these mobs and bosses, only to get a small story continuation.

IMO this flashpoint would be quite a bit better if they did one of three things for solo mode....

 

1) Allow us the use of the GSI droid.

2) Reduce the overall health of all three bosses by about 50 percent.

3) Add mechanics of some sort that can substantially reduce the level of health that the bosses have during the fight.

 

There are plenty of ways to do this....turrets, some kind of arc device you activate, a single shock, some kind of special weakening beam, something to boost our damage output, etc.

I don't mind it. It should maintain a certain amount of difficulty and/or tedium to justify the value of the decoration and armor drops.

uhm.

 

Tedium should never be an acceptable way of balancing effort vs. rewards.

Is it difficult enough to warrant rewards? ok.

Is it enough of a time investment to warrant rewards? ok.

...are we BORING YOU? oh, heck. Let us make it up to you with rewards. Not OK.

 

Nah.

 

Sounds like this needs some tuning.

uhm.

 

Tedium should never be an acceptable way of balancing effort vs. rewards.

Is it difficult enough to warrant rewards? ok.

Is it enough of a time investment to warrant rewards? ok.

...are we BORING YOU? oh, heck. Let us make it up to you with rewards. Not OK.

 

Nah.

 

Sounds like this needs some tuning.

Maybe for the continuation of the story it should be easier, I agree. However, for the story mode (with a companion of your choice) if it were any easier than it already is it'd just be an unreasonable credit farm. Also, I'm running 230 gear with a 32 influence comp, and the most each run takes me is just over an hour. Considering you really only need to do it once for the story, this is a very reasonable trade off. I've already made around 7mil credits in about 5 runs and still have decorations for sale in the GTN.

The bosses weren't bad in this in terms of mechanics and I rather liked going up and down the catwalk during the second fight - but yeah. Way too long. I used three heroic moments in each fight with my tank and she was not struggling at all. With a 5 minute cooldown for each HM that is about 15 minutes for each fight...45 minutes in this flashpoint just on hitting the bosses over and over again.

 

Aside from that, I thought the FP itself was brilliant...loved exploring the city; loved the scenery; loved the decos that dropped. I felt like everything about this flashpoint was way superior to Iokath and Umbara.

Hopefully, this will be viewed as constructive feedback. And, hey, this is my second non-white knighting post in as many days (and ever lolz )...

 

With respect to the new Flashpoint, Traitor among the Chiss (TatC): This post starts from the assumption that the following two premises are true -- that boss encounters are a function of two primary variables:

 

1) Do you understand and are capable of responding to the mechanics; and

 

2) (If solo) are you properly geared, know your rotations, and have the correct traits chosen.

 

I have now run the FP 6 times including 4 DPS, 1 Tank, 1 Healer. Let's also stipulate that with the tank and healer spec, the boss fights will take longer, but your survivability is higher. I think most would agree that is an acceptable trade-off.

 

While I like the clear distinction of phases between the bosses, they take a LONG, LONG time to take down. The characters I ran through were all minimum Ilvl 242, including augments, though some admittedly were at 220, not 228.

 

But once you know the mechanics of the fight -- spending the next couple minutes in each phase doing the exact same thing, knowing you won't die because even Ensign Temple Healer Level 1 (or DPS depending on spec) could keep you alive, got old fast.

 

Proposed solution: Shave some of the HP off the bosses. While some may call me a noob crying out for a nerf -- it's really about not getting bored in some of the fights.

 

Regards,

 

Dasty

 

People wonder why I tend to avoid doing end-game story content, and this is the reason: plot armor.

 

In a nutshell, the story-line here is ok. The mechanics of the flashpoint are boring and drawn out by tons of high HP champs. It's a grind on my Knight. Less so on my Merc.

 

It was too long, the jumps between the movies and intro/exits to and from the dungeon are jarring and the boss fights were nothing but HP slugfests with cheater mechanics like the ability to stun you when you can stun or interrupt back.

 

This is why I have 23 characters. The first 50 levels in the original game were just more fun. I don't care if I ever see a Mary Sue villain who gets whooped only to cut to movie to showcase how awesome he is ever again. While this FP mostly avoided that, it still felt absolutely the same.

 

Where were these Chiss champs when I was fighting the Eternal Throne. They could have solo'ed most of the bad guys from that (eventually).

 

Nothing but love for SWTOR. I play, and PAY, after all, multiple times a month, but your new stuff feels lazy.

I think they just forgot to add GSIsus, with him this would have been closer to normal story mode difficulty.

 

It's not just the bosses, all mobs have more hp than normal.

 

The flashpoint seems to be a bit borked, if you miss a cutscene on solo mode you can't see it ever again on that char.

I ran through it twice yesterday. The first time in Solo mode on my Jedi Shadow. I do know his rotations and play him fairly well in solo pve. Since he could stealth I just bypassed 90% of the 5 billion mobs that have too many hit points and make your character feel like it's been nerfed. I found the second boss extremely annoying and completely not fun. "Oh look he's instantly popped to the second level." So Up I'd go. "Oh look he's interrupted me again (and again and ...) and popped back down." Wash, rinse and repeat until I was ready to vomit (it's a figure of speech, I was actually sipping espresso at the time). With a level 1 Temple healing this was way not fun. Nor were any of the other bosses.

 

The second run through was on a Sith Sorcerer in Solo mode again (the real story mode ) -- so I had to kill those 5 billion mobs. It's been long enough since I've played her regularly that my lightning ways are rather rusty so it was doubly not fun and by the time I had her rotations and optimization down? Pfft too late to salvage much fun out of it. At least this time I brought enough bribes for Temple to get her up to around 20 something. Still not fun.

 

Long and short: Won't do this fp again, including on my Agent who is supposedly married to Temple.

 

Really I thought they had flipped the difficulty levels with the solo and story levels. Story, as in the game story, should be a sampler and similar to the harder difficulty modes, it should not be "veteran" mode. I was fairly convinced that's what they had done, but since BW hasn't commented on the many threads on exactly that topic, I'd say it's working as intended.

 

I really don't care about the boss mechanics at this point or how to be more efficient. Requiring me to grind through that large a number of combined HP's just to have 3 minutes of cut-scenes advancing the story just isn't worth it. Next time I'll just read the mined reddit threads.

 

Just my 2 credits worth.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Keta

I think they just forgot to add GSIsus, with him this would have been closer to normal story mode difficulty.

 

It's not just the bosses, all mobs have more hp than normal.

 

The flashpoint seems to be a bit borked, if you miss a cutscene on solo mode you can't see it ever again on that char.

Adding GSI would have been very helpful while I ran it with my SI for the first time.

 

Also, while Copero is beautiful, the map is so cluttered! Not just with adds but with decorations! Doesn't help the adds use stealth! The last stage was ok compared to the first half because there was a bit more room. I would want that level of detail when I'm just taking in the scenery, not getting shanked.

 

Not to mention Raina a required comp for Solo and that she'll be lv 1 influence unless you have tons of gifts or played Agent.

Initially, "As a story mode victim":rak_03: I thought this FP was awful as the bosses had too much HP, but once I swapped to solo, it wasn't too bad tbh. I had a level 1 Raina all through the instance.

Honestly, this is one of those times I really really wish BW had some kind of metric in game showing people as to how much dps people they are actually doing, instead of what they think they are doing (doesn't have to be public), as I'll bet a lot of people would be surprised by the difference.

 

The HP may be a tad too high, but all the fights took me under 4 minutes except the ice cat one, which took me 5 minutes. and the 2nd and final fight both took me under 3 minutes (and apparently the first boss you are basically supposed to ignore the adds, as they just keep respawning, so I could easily do that in under 3, and I had temple at level 1 on heals, so switching her to dps would be faster too).

 

Now, BW should not be balancing stuff like this around me (248s, nim raider), that's for sure, but still, I feel like expecting someone to do around half my dps is not unreasonable for something like this, which if you want each fight to be around 5 minutes would end up being a pretty small nerf. And a 5 minute boss fight seems reasonable too (would be longer for tanks and heals no matter what, and that's a legitimate issue BW needs to figure out).

 

As far as the adds, ya they were super annoying, but up until the first boss you can just run past them up to the boss, die, and respawn right there. Shouldn't have to, but that's what I did since I didn't want to spend an hour in the FP

 

To be clear, I blame BW for this, not anyone else, as BW doesn't teach rotations, nor give any kind of feedback about how good you are doing, as expecting someone to run starparse if they are a solo player is silly. And as long as BW doesn't provide tools to improve, I'm not sure what they can do but nerf stuff.

the only one that takes a bit too long, IMO, it's the Temple Guardian and that's by design as you can just skip it with the fruit. Nothing really hurts in solo anyway, not sure what the GSIdroid would be for...might as well just add a "skip fight entirely" button then. It's a fine FP and Copero is lovely, first time since Yavin 4 where I felt compelled to go look in every nook or taking in the vistas.

I'm a 247 ilvl assassin, and it still took a solid 10 minutes to kill him.

 

A 248 Sentinel took him down in less than 5 min.

I agree. First time I did the solo FP was on a stealth class and that was why it was doable but with all the stuns and damage immunities, the trash mobs (which are largely the same everywhere) become boring fast. The whole thing just takes too long.

 

When I did it in veteran mode we had a decent party. But we where not in maxed gear or even all level 70. It felt like it took forever. In reality it might have been like Kaon or Long island, I do not know exactly, but it felt a lot more tedious than those FPs.

 

It should be tailored to the average player with average gear. Maxed characters and raiders have OPS for their difficulty/tediousness needs. So the learn how to play your class remarks show serious lack of insight imo. Looking for the optimal rotation is nog everyone's idea of fun.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Gokkus

Giving the bosses 2 to 3 million HP does not make them challenging. It only make it boring and dull. Knock off some of the HP for the first and third boss then they will be more BALANCED. As they are now they are only a drudge that will NOT get done.

 

I find that I am not enthusiastic about doing this FP more than once and I am only doing it because I am being forded to.

 

I would prefer that FPs were NOT used as Story Missions but rather FPs should be put back as OPTIONAL SIDE MISSION. Like they have always been. Give us back REAL story mission that we can do over time and not JAM a FLASHPOINT DOWN OUR THROATS AMD CALL IT A STORY.

For solo half of the HP is enough.