PREFACE: I'm a longtime pvp'er who only does ranked pvp (solos and group) in this game. I've been a keen participant in the ranked scene since Season 2. I don't do regs or pve. I play on Satele Shan server.

Who would have thought? I've had more fun in solo ranked over the last two weeks (pre-season) than I've had during most of season 10 (or 9 or 8).

The reason is very simple - frequent and consistent pops!! The last time I saw SR pop this much was season 4. It has been immensely enjoyable for myself, who traditionally only ever gets one or two pops on weekdays (playing from Aus) and no more than a handful of pops on weekends.

What's changed? The removal of ELO rating during pre-season and introduction on mats (monumental crystal) for SR weekly mission, has caused droves of people to queue for solos. Given the high frequency of pops, it is much easier (for majority of people) to get the monumental crystal through SR weekly than doing the HM Queen, as only the raiding groups can get that done in a reasonable time frame. This weekend, it took me an average only two hours to get the SR weekly done per alt. I was able to finish it on 6 alts over Saturday and Sunday.

So what I'm taking from this is that people are not afraid to queue when there is little at stake and there is a reward at the end. Not very complicated!

All of this has caused me to completely reverse my view on the ELO system. I used to think that ranked should be reserved for the better players and that mat farmers and "noobs" should stay away. Turns out it was just a matter of scale. Whereas previously (during previous seasons) a few mat farmers would be scattered among a lot of good players (causing those teams to lose), now there is still a fair amount of good players but scattered among a sea of mat farmers and newbies. This, very counter intuitively, leads to some enjoyable and dare I say "balanced" games. When there are two good players and two "new" players on each team, the games can be very exhilarating. There is now a lot more opportunity for good players to carry the team which can be very gratifying.

I'm now an advocate of removing the ELO system in lieu of something similar to what is happening during off season. Remove ELO ratings, provide weekly mat rewards and provide ranked tokens for wins/losses. Leader boards can be sorted by wins or by win percentages. Figure out something for top three rewards or get rid of them altogether.

This post will not put forth a comprehensive alternative to the ELO system, I'm just a suggesting or recommending to change the current system because the current system does not work! And what I've witnessed in the last two weeks works a lot better!

Now I know this isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea and there will be detractors and veterans out there arguing against this proposal. However, please take a moment to consider the following:

• The current system of ELO and rewards has caused a steady decline in ranked participation over the last few years. I thought this was a population issue with many players leaving the game, but as it turns out, the population is there. Its just that a lot of players don't want to queue because they think they are not ready for ranked and don't want to spoil other's ratings as a result. Probably due to being shouted at by ranked veterans during the few times they tried ranked pvp. No rating means no pressure to perform which makes it easier to enjoy the game. The new players will learn and become better at arenas over time.
  

• Under the current system, the population is so low that the community has become extremely toxic. There is cheating, exploiting, leaving, throwing, wintrading, you name it! How is this conducive to an enjoyable experience?
  

• The ELO system was originally created to measure relative individual performance in chess, as a way of separating top players. It was not meant to measure individual performance in team games/sports. It just doesn't make sense to do so. It only makes sense for group ranked.
  

Bioware/Devs only need to look at the data from the last two weeks and they will see a drastic increase in Solo Ranked pops on SS, and I'm presuming on other servers too. Surely that should tell them that there is something there. I just hope they don't attribute this to the addition of mats only. It is a combination of mats and removal of rating. Use this opportunity to breathe some life back into the ranked scene. Remember that although ranked population is not very large, the best times this game has ever had was when the ranked pvp scene was at its peak (S1 and S2).

Ok, enough babbling about the same point in ten different ways!

BW, I've tasted good times in solo ranked for the first time in a LONG time. I want this to continue! For the record, my $15 a month should go towards making the whole game better, not just the cartel market. Please figure out a way to make ranked as enjoyable as it has been the last couple of weeks. The pops are great, the participation is great, the ELO system sucks! Its time for a change!

Don’t forget less toxicity because ELO means nothing at the moment.

Now imagine if they made solo ranked another reg queue, but with seasonal rewards?

It would pop more, people would be less stressed and the toxicity would be less.

At this late stage of the game with a dwindling population, IMO, Ranked should be left for group only.

Yes, totally agree. It was the same on Darth Malgus.

ELO system needs to go and devs have to figure out something else to sort out leaderboards.

I wanted to make a post last week cause I was totaly surprised by the ranked pops and the matches on Darth Malgus! It was a real pleassure to play! Matches were great and it was A LOT of players I have never seen before.

Ranked is definitely much more fun in preseason and without ELO rating.

Don’t forget less toxicity because ELO means nothing at the moment.

 

.

If you play well, then Toxicity shouldn't be a thing. - You'll occasionally get beaten by a better team or a more co-ordinated one.

BUT: I saw some really hateful stuff a couple of weeks ago. One of the team was a little under-geared and probably a bit new to their class.... But that didn't excuse someone else tearing them off such a huge strip. I haven't seen that person in the queue again -( the one that got flamed) so I'm guessing that there's one more person who's thrown in the towel, never to return.

Having any kind of rating is pretty pointless for solo arena , since you're completely at the mercy of 7 other random players.

Since most folks haven't got 1/4 billion to spend on a 4-point upgrade to MH or OH , and Pug Queen groups want 10+ kills achieve before even considering people, then solos are gonna be popping more frequently.

- Still think that a 1 crystal for a 5O point target was a bit steep. - but that's a discussion for another time.

PREFACE: I'm a longtime pvp'er who only does ranked pvp (solos and group) in this game. I've been a keen participant in the ranked scene since Season 2. I don't do regs or pve. I play on Satele Shan server.

 

Who would have thought? I've had more fun in solo ranked over the last two weeks (pre-season) than I've had during most of season 10 (or 9 or 8).

 

The reason is very simple - frequent and consistent pops!! The last time I saw SR pop this much was season 4. It has been immensely enjoyable for myself, who traditionally only ever gets one or two pops on weekdays (playing from Aus) and no more than a handful of pops on weekends.

 

What's changed? The removal of ELO rating during pre-season and introduction on mats (monumental crystal) for SR weekly mission, has caused droves of people to queue for solos. Given the high frequency of pops, it is much easier (for majority of people) to get the monumental crystal through SR weekly than doing the HM Queen, as only the raiding groups can get that done in a reasonable time frame. This weekend, it took me an average only two hours to get the SR weekly done per alt. I was able to finish it on 6 alts over Saturday and Sunday.

 

So what I'm taking from this is that people are not afraid to queue when there is little at stake and there is a reward at the end. Not very complicated!

 

All of this has caused me to completely reverse my view on the ELO system. I used to think that ranked should be reserved for the better players and that mat farmers and "noobs" should stay away. Turns out it was just a matter of scale. Whereas previously (during previous seasons) a few mat farmers would be scattered among a lot of good players (causing those teams to lose), now there is still a fair amount of good players but scattered among a sea of mat farmers and newbies. This, very counter intuitively, leads to some enjoyable and dare I say "balanced" games. When there are two good players and two "new" players on each team, the games can be very exhilarating. There is now a lot more opportunity for good players to carry the team which can be very gratifying.

 

I'm now an advocate of removing the ELO system in lieu of something similar to what is happening during off season. Remove ELO ratings, provide weekly mat rewards and provide ranked tokens for wins/losses. Leader boards can be sorted by wins or by win percentages. Figure out something for top three rewards or get rid of them altogether.

 

This post will not put forth a comprehensive alternative to the ELO system, I'm just a suggesting or recommending to change the current system because the current system does not work! And what I've witnessed in the last two weeks works a lot better!

 

Now I know this isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea and there will be detractors and veterans out there arguing against this proposal. However, please take a moment to consider the following:

 

 

• The current system of ELO and rewards has caused a steady decline in ranked participation over the last few years. I thought this was a population issue with many players leaving the game, but as it turns out, the population is there. Its just that a lot of players don't want to queue because they think they are not ready for ranked and don't want to spoil other's ratings as a result. Probably due to being shouted at by ranked veterans during the few times they tried ranked pvp. No rating means no pressure to perform which makes it easier to enjoy the game. The new players will learn and become better at arenas over time.
  

 

• Under the current system, the population is so low that the community has become extremely toxic. There is cheating, exploiting, leaving, throwing, wintrading, you name it! How is this conducive to an enjoyable experience?
  

 

• The ELO system was originally created to measure relative individual performance in chess, as a way of separating top players. It was not meant to measure individual performance in team games/sports. It just doesn't make sense to do so. It only makes sense for group ranked.
  

 

Bioware/Devs only need to look at the data from the last two weeks and they will see a drastic increase in Solo Ranked pops on SS, and I'm presuming on other servers too. Surely that should tell them that there is something there. I just hope they don't attribute this to the addition of mats only. It is a combination of mats and removal of rating. Use this opportunity to breathe some life back into the ranked scene. Remember that although ranked population is not very large, the best times this game has ever had was when the ranked pvp scene was at its peak (S1 and S2).

 

Ok, enough babbling about the same point in ten different ways!

 

BW, I've tasted good times in solo ranked for the first time in a LONG time. I want this to continue! For the record, my $15 a month should go towards making the whole game better, not just the cartel market. Please figure out a way to make ranked as enjoyable as it has been the last couple of weeks. The pops are great, the participation is great, the ELO system sucks! Its time for a change!

Meh no thx. Pre season is terrible due to crystal reward and no elo iam seeing Absolute trash and noobs queue solo ranked. People who are getting globalled in one second just ruining ranked

What's changed? The removal of ELO rating during pre-season and introduction on mats (monumental crystal) for SR weekly mission, has caused droves of people to queue for solos. Given the high frequency of pops, it is much easier (for majority of people) to get the monumental crystal through SR weekly than doing the HM Queen, as only the raiding groups can get that done in a reasonable time frame. This weekend, it took me an average only two hours to get the SR weekly done per alt. I was able to finish it on 6 alts over Saturday and Sunday.

Just by way of a data point, I started queuing solos (on SF, not SS - sorry ) last week for the first time, and the reason was similar, but not exactly this. I didn't even realize I was going to get a crystal (didn't pay that much attention to that part of the reward). I did it to get the stupid Ossus rep that I have to have to make the crystals worth anything.

Its just that a lot of players don't want to queue because they think they are not ready for ranked and don't want to spoil other's ratings as a result.

And this. I've typed in another thread, I don't care at all about my rank or whatever mount or title I can buy with ranked comms at the end (not that I won't buy something if it's cool and I end up with enough comms, but that's not what drives me to play the game). And if I don't care about my own rank, I'm not going to queue and get ranted at (perhaps justified) for ruining someone else's.

But this last week... yeah, ranked has been pretty fun. For me that's because pretty much everyone, in my games anyway, is actually there to try to win, but has been able to gracefully accept a loss at the same time.

Absolute trash and noobs queue solo ranked

Quit your bullsith.

Quit your bullsith.

Well said

Well said

Didn't you get the message? SR is *MY* playground! Get off it.

Meh no thx. Pre season is terrible due to crystal reward and no elo iam seeing Absolute trash and noobs queue solo ranked. People who are getting globalled in one second just ruining ranked

I would rather play with a noob that is at least trying, that someone with your attitude.

I would rather play with a noob that is at least trying, that someone with your attitude.

my attitude is absolutely normal and understandable. After providing of new blue crystal as a new mat the quality of solo ranked declined considerably. I see pve players getting killed in 0,7 seconds who doesn't know what is vanish, camouflage or reflect.

The new approach of removing elo is just an attempt of making ranked EASY and way of getting ranked rewards EASY. Just play tonnes of games and get your reward lol. This actually means quantity over quality. The fact you react so hard only proves that you guys just can't consider criticism and trying to find an easy way to get good rewards.

Current elo system is absolutely ok. If you tryhard and you have SKILL you can get to gold tier without much problems in a week-two. Those who are trying to provide the new quantity win system are those who can't play good enough for rewards. Thats all

my attitude is absolutely normal and understandable. After providing of new blue crystal as a new mat the quality of solo ranked declined considerably. I see pve players getting killed in 0,7 seconds who doesn't know what is vanish, camouflage or reflect.

 

The new approach of removing elo is just an attempt of making ranked EASY and way of getting ranked rewards EASY. Just play tonnes of games and get your reward lol. This actually means quantity over quality. The fact you react so hard only proves that you guys just can't consider criticism and trying to find an easy way to get good rewards.

 

Current elo system is absolutely ok. If you tryhard and you have SKILL you can get to gold tier without much problems in a week-two. Those who are trying to provide the new quantity win system are those who can't play good enough for rewards. Thats all

Yes, yes you are very elite and untouchable. Are you shilling for the ranked mafia? Afraid that you guys can no longer game the system if it's converted to a point-based system? See, I can also make unfounded accusations.

Pfft...

Truth is that PvP in this game - including ranked - is bottom tier in quality and attracts very few players with actual skill. We have tried ELO for years now, and it's clearly not working. Moving away from ELO has nothing to do with rewards or titles, but about having fun competing against each other without the toxicity that normally follows. Going point-based / win-based / whatever is a far better match for this game.

my attitude is absolutely normal and understandable. After providing of new blue crystal as a new mat the quality of solo ranked declined considerably. I see pve players getting killed in 0,7 seconds who doesn't know what is vanish, camouflage or reflect.

 

The new approach of removing elo is just an attempt of making ranked EASY and way of getting ranked rewards EASY. Just play tonnes of games and get your reward lol. This actually means quantity over quality. The fact you react so hard only proves that you guys just can't consider criticism and trying to find an easy way to get good rewards.

 

Current elo system is absolutely ok. If you tryhard and you have SKILL you can get to gold tier without much problems in a week-two. Those who are trying to provide the new quantity win system are those who can't play good enough for rewards. Thats all

I agree with you that they should not make any changes to make ranked "easier" by going to a point based system that some people want. Ranked is supposed to be about "who is better" not about who plays the most. I do not think that people who want the point system are people who might want to get rewards easier. Some of them perhaps, but I feel its more about people just wanting a change overall. Changing to a point system is an idea. I dont think its a good one, but its still a fair idea.

Truth is that PvP in this game - including ranked - is bottom tier in quality and attracts very few players with actual skill. We have tried ELO for years now, and it's clearly not working. Moving away from ELO has nothing to do with rewards or titles, but about having fun competing against each other without the toxicity that normally follows. Going point-based / win-based / whatever is a far better match for this game.

How can you say that PvP in this game is bottom tier quality? The game just has had too many bugs and issues with d-sync that make its lower quality for me. The PvP itself in terms of balance and how the classes interact with each other is pretty dam good overall. They just need to do more balance changes (small ones) on a more consistent basis to keep things interesting for some classes and specs.

This is just my personal feeling but to me, 95%ish of the population in this game in regards to pvp do not play the game properly. As a skilled player, I can understand why a lot of skilled players have been leaving the game because it is frustrating when your playing the Competitive game mode in ranked and u get players who have no clue what they are doing and/or are simply not competitive and give up. Us skilled players have a right to be upset when "new" players decide to play ranked when they clearly have way to much to learn and think about before they would meet any concept of minimum requirements that us skilled players would perceive as acceptable for them to be playing ranked.

If you play just to have fun, then you should be playing regs. If you are competitive and enjoy competition and you also know what you are doing, then you should consider playing ranked to have " better quality" of pvp in theory. The problem we have had for like forever, it that there is a clear lack of quality in ranked which ruins the joy of competition for us competitive players. Combine the fact the higher elo you get, the longer the queue takes to pop for you, and when you wait 45 minute for 1 pop just to get someone on your team that have no clue what they are doing, it gets frustrating pretty fast.

Catering ranked to as many people possible instead of for those who are competitive and are skilled is one of the reasons why a lot of skilled players have left this game.

How can you say that PvP in this game is bottom tier quality? The game just has had too many bugs and issues with d-sync that make its lower quality for me. The PvP itself in terms of balance and how the classes interact with each other is pretty dam good overall. They just need to do more balance changes (small ones) on a more consistent basis to keep things interesting for some classes and specs.

 

 

This is just my personal feeling but to me, 95%ish of the population in this game in regards to pvp do not play the game properly. As a skilled player, I can understand why a lot of skilled players have been leaving the game because it is frustrating when your playing the Competitive game mode in ranked and u get players who have no clue what they are doing and/or are simply not competitive and give up. Us skilled players have a right to be upset when "new" players decide to play ranked when they clearly have way to much to learn and think about before they would meet any concept of minimum requirements that us skilled players would perceive as acceptable for them to be playing ranked.

 

 

If you play just to have fun, then you should be playing regs. If you are competitive and enjoy competition and you also know what you are doing, then you should consider playing ranked to have " better quality" of pvp in theory. The problem we have had for like forever, it that there is a clear lack of quality in ranked which ruins the joy of competition for us competitive players. Combine the fact the higher elo you get, the longer the queue takes to pop for you, and when you wait 45 minute for 1 pop just to get someone on your team that have no clue what they are doing, it gets frustrating pretty fast.

 

 

Catering ranked to as many people possible instead of for those who are competitive and are skilled is one of the reasons why a lot of skilled players have left this game.

eSports. I am talking about actual competitive games that are monitored, regulated and where skill is the only thing that matter. You are deluding yourself, if you think ranked in this game can measure up. For this reason they might as well change the format and forgo ELO. It. does. not. work.

I could rant on, but don't worry, you will get your way I have no doubt. Nothing will change, and the game will continue to decline.

Now ignore me while I go shopping. P2W FTW.

want to know a good joke? swtor pvp is competitive. LOLOLOL! good joke. (hilarious crowd laughter ensues)

as for why? because this game no longer has updates or meta changes, its balance is based around pve dmg and survivability, gear changes matchups, and did I mention classes are not balanced around pvp?

lol, swtor competitive.. gud meme.

want to know a good joke? swtor pvp is competitive. LOLOLOL! good joke. (hilarious crowd laughter ensues)

 

 

 

as for why? because this game no longer has updates or meta changes, its balance is based around pve dmg and survivability, gear changes matchups, and did I mention classes are not balanced around pvp?

 

 

lol, swtor competitive.. gud meme.

Lol exactly.

What does any of this accomplish. What have all our rants and bickering at each other ever changed? EA fat cats are smoking their cigars and snorting a line of cocaine while throwing more loot-boxes at us. Gee thanks.

You know what, I am so done. I will not be posting here again.

The new approach of removing elo is just an attempt of making ranked EASY and way of getting ranked rewards EASY. Just play tonnes of games and get your reward lol. This actually means quantity over quality. The fact you react so hard only proves that you guys just can't consider criticism and trying to find an easy way to get good rewards.

I agree with you that they should not make any changes to make ranked "easier" by going to a point based system that some people want. Ranked is supposed to be about "who is better" not about who plays the most. I do not think that people who want the point system are people who might want to get rewards easier. Some of them perhaps, but I feel its more about people just wanting a change overall. Changing to a point system is an idea. I dont think its a good one, but its still a fair idea.

Well, I did say not everyone will like this idea.

I'm not necessarily suggesting a win point system. The main point is that the ELO system just doesn't work. The evidence is the significant decline in ranked participation over the years. And then a drastic increase in participation in the two weeks when they remove the ELO ratings and add mats.

Sure, there are now more games with people who can't press buttons. But due to the much higher number of pops (which now go almost round the clock on SS), it is much more enjoyable overall, for me. And I would like this to become a regular thing not just something that happens during pre-season.

Thus I'll happily forgo ELO ratings in lieu of something else that will keep the pops alive. It's ok if you don't agree.

With some sort of a win point system, the argument of 'no lifers will get all the rewards due to sitting in queue 24 hours a day' is somewhat flawed. Some may think that 'noobs' with time on their hands don't deserve the rewards because they are simply not as skilled as the veterans. It's just not fair, right! Well, you'll find that not many things in life are fair.

For example, think about day to day life IRL. A 'single' person can spend more time at work and put in more effort than a 'family' person. The single person will get rewarded accordingly, and the family person won't. Is that unfair or just a natural part of life? Another example, a person who is very good at their job will climb the corporate ladder faster than the average person. Happens all the time. Some may say its unfair or preferential treatment or some other excuse. There are many other examples, but the gist is that all this happens because the world is inherently not fair and it never will be!

So why expect the game to be fair? I'll have no problem if the game mimics real life. As in, there will be players who spend a disproportionate amount of time doing ranked and getting rewards ahead of me even though their skill level is nowhere near mine. But its ok, because I'm still having fun!

Bottom line is, I just want more pops! I don't mind if the quality of pops varies, its still better than no pops!

Last couple of weeks it's been very good, so all I want is for this to continue.

Didn't you get the message? SR is *MY* playground! Get off it.

Can’t we share

Can’t we share

In all seriousness, I see the bullying attitude has started up tonight. Maybe in prep for the season starting tomorrow. I'm seeing what I guess are the "regulars" coming back. They /stuck it if the first round is lost, or just quit if they decide their team doesn't deserve their specialness, after telling the rest of us to not queue ranked. Very sad. Whatever... have fun crying "someone queue yolos!" in gen chat on the fleets over and over.

The main point is that the ELO system just doesn't work. The evidence is the significant decline in ranked participation over the years.

This. ^

Also, In no way do the rewards granted indicate that players with top ELO are the best nor is this hard to do for those who are willing to cheat. The fact is the majority of top ELO scored "winners" were found to be cheaters.

Here's a SS that DuHavok provided of people caught cheating. This is only two of the classes. Look how many were removed from the top scoring positions:

Just those 2 classes where it's a huge difference in solo ranked

Pretty much sums season 10 ranked.

 

Sorcerer/Sage: https://imgur.com/a/T2ygTgQ

Powertech/Vanguard: https://imgur.com/a/uRKHdBG

 

If you wonder what are those blacked out players, these are people that got banned but the leaderboards didn't refresh yet.

And this is assuming that's the only ones caught. What about ones who were not caught? How does this present system indicate skill when there's so much rampant cheating?

Exactly how does a player's ELO indicate they are great when the manipulation of the system is so rampant? Also, exactly what is "hard" about win trading, dropping queues, and all the other methods experienced ranked player snow use to manipulate the system?

Player's know who the best are. A top 3 title or reward doesn't mean anything anymore. Sorry to burst your bubble, but having a top 3 title only makes me think you probably bought the account or cheated to get it.

If people want to discuss how a wins/loss point system for ranked rewards is a bad idea, then at least provide some logical argument as to how it's bad. Not the excuse "It's too easy." It's far easier for people to cheat their way to high ELO now than it would be to play a large number of matches.

If a wins/loss system was in place, there would be less crying/whining about losses too if losses didn't hurt so much. Players would be more apt to participate with less toxicity in the matches. Because a loss causes so much damage to ELO, there's tons of pressure on honest players to not lose.

Right now a loss does so much damage that people can't help but get highly irritated when they lose. Whether it's a win trader, a match dropper, a poorly skilled player, all of these and more cause losses and these are all way too common in the matches. Especially win trades/match droppers. I shouldn't get my ELO crushed by a few win traders, and that's what happens now.

People complain ad nauseum about other cheating for ELO, and BW for years has tried but failed to stop shady players from finding ways to manipulate and cheat for ELO. The only real solution is to get rid of it. It doesn't work. The only thing that is happening is people are getting better at cheating the system, and more people want nothing to do with ranked due to it's extreme toxicity.

Us skilled players have a right to be upset when "new" players decide to play ranked when they clearly have way to much to learn and think about before they would meet any concept of minimum requirements that us skilled players would perceive as acceptable for them to be playing ranked.

I disagree with this mentality, friend. If we don’t allow new players to fail, how will they learn? I especially despise this thought process purely because I was literal garbage in S1-3 and worked really hard, getting flamed and told to “quit polluting the ranked pool” while I learned from my mistakes and got better. Eventually I became above average relative to my peers and was no longer complete garbage. But I wouldn’t have had the opportunity to get to my skill level today if I had listened to those players telling me to stop queuing.

Elo doesn’t work because it needs a large population to work properly. That will never happen if people keep telling new players to stop queuing. It’s counter intuitive to both want ranked to thrive and want bad players to stop queuing.

Everyone is a bad player relative to someone else. Anyone should be allowed to participate in ranked.