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Marauder becoming an obsolete class in Onslaught, for PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Marauder becoming an obsolete class in Onslaught, for PvP

Real_FlyGonz's Avatar


Real_FlyGonz
08.18.2019 , 12:26 AM | #1
Being a marauder main in pvp is not for the feint of heart. It is probably one of the harder classes to master in pvp combat, especially if you are targeted or 1v1. So I was expecting some nice buffs to the defense of this class or maybe a bit more damage than it currently puts out.

I know, some of you are thinking more defense or dps would make marauder the most OP thing in the game. But lets remember that there already is a "marauder" that hits harder and has better defense, the Rage Jugg.

Reading the patch notes and feedback from the PTS, it seems that they have yet to realize that marauders are nothing more than lackluster juggs. They offered no major buff to the class to make it stand out from the jugg in combat, aside from the already superior mobility which means not much in pvp during a 1v2+. Instead they buff jugg defense and leave marauder with some mediocre, at best, buffs to our avoidance and some new interactive ability.

Can a Dev or someone who actually helps make class changes explain the reasoning on why you make a jugg have more dps than a marauder when they have 5x the survivability? Maybe I am missing some major buff to the class coming in Onslaught, but so far the few changes I read are not enough to make a glass canon, like the marauder, beat other classes in dps while having way less defensives.

Devs please fix marauder in onslaught instead of keeping it in the shadows of jugg.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
08.18.2019 , 12:21 PM | #2
As someone who currently plays both Guardian and Sentinel, and has mained Guardians for over half a decade, when I want to PvP on a single target "burst" spec, I go for my concentration sent. Yes, even when I'm playing solo. Concentration hits harder than Focus, it has better immunity, more ability to stay on target, an actual disengage, everything except FD, taunts, and guard. And for the purposes of your argument, guard and taunts are irrelevant because guard will kill you very quickly as a dps if you don't properly pull it off, and you did not mention taunts yourself. Furthermore, sent has tools that also grant team utility, specifically because it is a "pure" dps class (i.e. there is no sentinel tank or healing spec).

Now, if you want to say Vigilance is a better PvP spec than Watchman, then we can talk. In the meantime, you simply need to learn to use the tools you have properly. Or you know, just be yet another Juggernaut that doesn't know how to play the class and can't outdamage the tank.

Real_FlyGonz's Avatar


Real_FlyGonz
08.19.2019 , 12:19 AM | #3
Thank you for your reply.

I cant speak to pub classes or specs. I am only knowledgeable with sith classes, specs, and abilities.

A jug,g in rage spec, can out dps a marauder. Maybe this isnt something guardians can do, but juggs absolutely do. Ask any sith pvp player who is well versed in the ranked or even reg community.

My quarrel is with the fact that a pure dps class, like my marauder, is even remotely similar or less effective in dps as a class that has tank defensive cooldowns. Such as ED and others.

I can understand that rage is a dps spec and should pull good dps, but take away ED or something to make it balanced. No reason for a class to have the best of both worlds.

Just to clarify, I know marauder in and out. I play at a high level in pvp. Im just talking about how we will be left in the dirt come Onslaught. Every class is getting really good defensive or offensive or even both buffed. Marauder is barely getting a buff.

I intend to do my best to work with what Onslaught makes my marauder out to be, just as I have up to date.

Folcwar's Avatar


Folcwar
08.19.2019 , 04:55 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Real_FlyGonz View Post
Thank you for your reply.

I cant speak to pub classes or specs. I am only knowledgeable with sith classes, specs, and abilities.

A jug,g in rage spec, can out dps a marauder. Maybe this isnt something guardians can do, but juggs absolutely do. Ask any sith pvp player who is well versed in the ranked or even reg community.

My quarrel is with the fact that a pure dps class, like my marauder, is even remotely similar or less effective in dps as a class that has tank defensive cooldowns. Such as ED and others.

I can understand that rage is a dps spec and should pull good dps, but take away ED or something to make it balanced. No reason for a class to have the best of both worlds.

Just to clarify, I know marauder in and out. I play at a high level in pvp. Im just talking about how we will be left in the dirt come Onslaught. Every class is getting really good defensive or offensive or even both buffed. Marauder is barely getting a buff.

I intend to do my best to work with what Onslaught makes my marauder out to be, just as I have up to date.
Just going to say it now, guardian and jug, senntinel and marauder are mirrored classes - aka they do the exact same dps and have the exact same abiltites just named diffrent (outside of bugs which caused certain abiltites to do more damage. which have happend in the past with certain mirrored classes, but those aren't present right now)

And on pts (which I suggest you try out rn) ahni is doing ALOT of damage, not really checked the other 2 specs, but I really suggest you hop on, and try it.

(also fury out dps's rage by a lot.)

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
08.19.2019 , 05:11 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Real_FlyGonz View Post
snip
The classes are exact mirrors - I am simply using the terminology I know best.

If you are being out dps by a rage juggie as a fury mara, you're doing something wrong.

Your protest seems to be FD, because outside of that, mara has the same or superior tools. We both have ward. Guardians have reflect and enure, but maras have guarded by the force and rebuke. And maras have force camo in addition.

In terms of staying on target, rage and fury both have the second leap and mad dash, but maras also have transcendence. Learn to use these tools

You want to prove to me you're high level in PvP prove it. What have you actually managed to do? I've got screenshots showing what I've done all over this forum, and spent time as probably the most hated guardian on SS back when I was guild leading there. Who I am and what I have done is no big secret.

I'm not on PTS so I'm not going to speak to the onslaught changes just yet.

TmoneyTime's Avatar


TmoneyTime
08.19.2019 , 09:07 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post

Now, if you want to say Vigilance is a better PvP spec than Watchman, then we can talk. In the meantime, you simply need to learn to use the tools you have properly. Or you know, just be yet another Juggernaut that doesn't know how to play the class and can't outdamage the tank.
Incorrect
Watchman is right behind fury. Its honestly not that big of a difference. Just people are bad at it because its not as brain dead.

Real_FlyGonz's Avatar


Real_FlyGonz
08.19.2019 , 09:30 AM | #7
I know classes are mirrors from pub to imp, I just dont know the names of the mirror specs. That was what I meant when I said I don't know about guardian.

Again, you keep saying to learn my class, as if I dont know how to use every single ability at my disposal... trust me I do. Thats not whats at question. Even some of the best marauders on star forge are abandoning their maras, due to it being left in the dust, in comparison to other classes IN ONSLAUGHT.

Another thing, I actually tested my theory on rage jugg and fury mara being the exact same amount of dmg. Not only do they have the exact same rotation, with the exact same abilities (that also do the same damage) but jugg have more survivability. This is all related to PvP dps, not PvE. If you like, do the research I did. Look at the damage on the tooltip of furious strike on a jugg at item rating 258 (about 15000-16500) and compare to a mara's furious strike at item.rating 258 (the same numbers). Hence my issue with jugg dps and mara dps. Same abilities, same damage, minus ED which is god mode in pvp. The only thing to do against ED is notice it fast and cc them with all you got... for 12 seconds.

Someone memtioned annhialation as very high dps in the PTS. Is that parsing in PvE or PvP? DoT do well of you arent in a hurry, but in PvP as a mara, you usually need to kill quick due to lack of survivability.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
08.19.2019 , 10:22 AM | #8
I don't think you're playing your Mara well. Marauder is better than Juggernaut.

  • Are you not stealthing out and healing to full? Use Force Camouflage.
  • Force Crush makes you immune to stuns, roots, slows, and knockbacks for 6s.
  • You have super speed for your whole raid every 30s via Predation.
  • You have Cloak of Pain which gives you 20% DR and deals damage back to the attacker (up to 30s duration).
  • You have a raid buff called Bloodthirst.
  • You have Undying Rage which makes you immune to damage (99% of it) for 4s.
  • You have Obfuscate for single targets that makes them miss all their attacks.
  • You have Crippling Slash that reduces healing and slows the target.


What does jugg have? ED, a crappy reflect, saber ward (which maras have too), force push, and endure pain?

Marauder takes more skill to master, Juggernaut is kind of braindead.
-Beruhl
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

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Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
08.19.2019 , 11:13 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
I don't think you're playing your Mara well. Marauder is better than Juggernaut.

  • Are you not stealthing out and healing to full? Use Force Camouflage.
  • Force Crush makes you immune to stuns, roots, slows, and knockbacks for 6s.
  • You have super speed for your whole raid every 30s via Predation.
  • You have Cloak of Pain which gives you 20% DR and deals damage back to the attacker (up to 30s duration).
  • You have a raid buff called Bloodthirst.
  • You have Undying Rage which makes you immune to damage (99% of it) for 4s.
  • You have Obfuscate for single targets that makes them miss all their attacks.
  • You have Crippling Slash that reduces healing and slows the target.


What does jugg have? ED, a crappy reflect, saber ward (which maras have too), force push, and endure pain?

Marauder takes more skill to master, Juggernaut is kind of braindead.
Exactly, juggs have literally nothing besides ED. Their Passive DR is completely surpassed by mara just by pressing Cloak of Pain. Endure Pain in Vengeance is a bit of a DCD but not much. Dash and Ward - mara has that too. Reflect is nice but it doesn't protect you against white melee attacks at all, at best you buy yourself 3-4 seconds of time when people stop hitting you.

That's literally it. They have no CC immunity like Fury, they have no stealth out, they have no total DMG immunity, and no accuracy debuff they have no healing debuffs to fight heal classes, their DCDs are also painfully obvious: for example, Shield symbol for Vengeance - once it ends, it's like screaming "stun me now!".

They can just heal to full one time and then die.

Real_FlyGonz's Avatar


Real_FlyGonz
08.19.2019 , 12:04 PM | #10
Im aware of all the awesome tools mara has, and the cool utilities it has. But again... I am talking mainly about Onslaught. Every class got huge buffs in one way or another. Mara got some more utilities.

Using force camoflauge is only good if they leave you alone after it ends a few seconds later. Then the game takes like a year to make you leave combat to heal up.

I am also looking at this from a dueling standpoint, which is a huge weekness in this game. Dueling is not balanced at all, but it shows you if a class is weaker than another in a pvp 1v1 situation. Jugg will always beat a mara, unless the jugg is brain dead and doesnt know his rotation in pvp. Mara cant stealth out of a 1v1, if the opponent is even half decent.