The influx of subs from Kotfe is now beginning to fall off after people realize the story content has almost zero replayability and the alliance system is a grind that is hardly worth doing on more than one character. You may have also noticed that most of these players want to play alone, based on the outcry over the companion nerf. This seems almost calculated, based on the fact that no multiplayer content was added during the expansion.

 

So this breed of gamer that you have attracted and marketed to has proven to be extremely fickle and it is impossible to produce enough story content to keep them subbed for more than a month, in general. So that leaves us with a business model problem. Because you've essentially abandoned all features that are not single player, and the massively multiplayer part of your playerbase, the ones that have actaully bothered to continue to play the game over the years after reaching 50 are left with abandoned features.

 

Scaling raids is the absloutely most pathetic way to get raiders back on the loot treadmill, as they defeat end game content that they beat years ago as current content.

 

PVP STILL has unoptomized performance all these years later. It's like Bioware deleted Ilum and just never bothered optimizing any of the warzones. Low fps is still plaguing people and is turning away new players. It has been over a month since 4.0 and we have no balance patch, as classes have performance spreads of 25+%, season 7 is nowhere in sight, new warzones are nowhere sight, open world pvp was abandoned years ago. So, what reason do the players who actually participate in the game outside of story content have to stay besides Star Wars? Well, none really, we're just playing on broken, forgotten playgrounds.

 

Edit:

While I find it hilarious that this has largely devolved into a semantical debate, the point remains, pulling the plug on pvp and group content does not a successful mmo make. It's pretty much par for the course in the history of this game though, an elephant graveyard of abandoned and broken features is a testament to this games lack of direction and foresight.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Pantheros

The sheer number of assumptions in this post is staggering.

 

A shorter version could simply read: "I firmly believe that Massively Multiplayer means grouping or PvP, and BioWare doesn't focus on those. I don't find any replay value in KoTFE, so no one else will, and players who play for story, quit, only PvPers and Raiders stick around."

 

... All of which are false.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto

The sheer number of assumptions in this post is staggering.

 

It really is.

 

I'm tempted to ask for this staggering proof of fickleness in that exact demographic, but I'm kind've afraid I'd get a screenshot of someone's butt and a diatribe about 'casuals'.

Apparently OP doesnt understand that a lot of people are here to be playing a Star Wars game/continuation of KOTOR and not just to play an MMO...

 

Just in case you didnt know, KOTOR 1& 2 were -Single Player- games...

Bioware doesn't care mate, most of their income comes from a small percent of subscribers putting in hundreds of dollars into CM. It's the best revenue for them with lowest risk possible.

 

Apparently OP doesnt understand that a lot of people are here to be playing a Star Wars game/continuation of KOTOR and not just to play an MMO...

 

Just in case you didnt know, KOTOR 1& 2 were -Single Player- games...

 

Apparently what you don't understand is this was exactly his point.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Kozor

 

... All of which are false.

 

That's an assumption too

 

Fact is, population dropped again to more-or-less old levels, for whatever reason.

The sheer number of assumptions in this post is staggering.

 

A shorter version could simply read: "I firmly believe that Massively Multiplayer means grouping or PvP, and BioWare doesn't focus on those. I don't find any replay value in KoTFE, so no one else will, and players who play for story, quit, only PvPers and Raiders stick around."

 

... All of which are false.

It really is.

 

I'm tempted to ask for this staggering proof of fickleness in that exact demographic, but I'm kind've afraid I'd get a screenshot of someone's butt and a diatribe about 'casuals'.

 

These are pretty much the most appropriate responses to OP's post. Not much more needs to be said.

Apparently OP doesnt understand that a lot of people are here to be playing a Star Wars game/continuation of KOTOR and not just to play an MMO...

 

Just in case you didnt know, KOTOR 1& 2 were -Single Player- games...

 

And how many mounths did you spend playing those 2 games, might I ask? Or years, perharps?

 

You can argue about what is true definition of MMO, but there is 1 crucial thing that separates them from single player games. Running costs. Any MMO should constantly provide money to cover those costs and keep being profitable. And I personally highly doubt the ability of "story players" to stay long and pay such money.

These are pretty much the most appropriate responses to OP's post. Not much more needs to be said.

 

Then don't say anything, nobody will notice.

Massively Multiplayer means grouping or PvP, and BioWare doesn't focus on those.

... All of which are false.

 

You're right you don't have to be in a group to participate in a massively multiplayer experience, EVE Online is a good example of this, but playing alone in an instanced zone that has no persistence or consequence is the definition of single player, and that describes Kotfe, including "endgame" heroic 2's and star fortress content. World bosses might be just about the only thing that requires other people, but that's just more recycled content. Sure I made assumptions about player activity numbers, but server statuses offer a very rough estimation, and they are trending downwards.

 

As for replaybility, we pretty much know by now that choices don't have consequences, or if they do, they are many months away, possibly more than a year away, so unless you enjoy hearing the same dialogue over and over again, and the same, generally uninspired gameplay (I mean really the combat is just filler come on) then you are the exception.

Just because you claim that something is true does not make that thing true. And if you must preface any of your statements with "essentially," you better make damn sure that the subsequent argument is convincing. It's a red flag word that perhaps your position is not as sound as you would have others believe.

I play solo as much as I could, and this and WoW are the only 2 mmos i actively sub to. Any MMO that facilitates solo play gets my dollars. It doesnt matter that the content is replayable for me because I appreciate the game giving me access to as much story and content as possible. (disclosure: I do have lifetime subs in games that allow it and have strong solo properties)

I like how nobody actually adresses any of OP points.

That's an assumption too

 

Fact is, population dropped again to more-or-less old levels, for whatever reason.

 

Actually, it's not

 

A statement like: "All story players quit the game and only raiders stick around" can be proved false if just ONE story players sticks around for any length of time. SWTOR, patently, has many players who've been here since beta, playing for the story, for the RP - both guild and Cantina.

 

Therefore his implied assumption is false.

 

That's the problem with hyperbole and generic statements. They're usually always wrong. (Yes, I'm aware of the irony. The point stands ) People really should learn to be more precise about their language.

 

My corrected version of his post is really what he was trying to say.

 

"I firmly believe that Massively Multiplayer means grouping or PvP, and BioWare doesn't focus on those. I don't find any replay value in KoTFE, so no one else will, and players who play for story, quit, only PvPers and Raiders stick around."

 

Let's look at these statements, broken up. I think - and I may be wrong - that he has 4 main points in his OP.

 

Massively Multiplayer means ONLY grouping or PvP - False. Massively Multiplayer means many people existing in the same persistent world at the same time. They're called Massively Multiplayer Games, not Massively ForcedGrouping Games.

 

BioWare doesn't focus very much on group or PvP content - True. It's my belief (see what I did there; I added the qualifier) that they do this because they know what their audience wants, which is a more KoTOR-style experience, albeit in a world inhabited by other players for the social aspects. (chat/trade/help if necessary/etc)

 

I don't find any replay value in KoTFE, so no one else will - False. I've played it through a half dozen times now, and am still enjoying it. I have thousands of hours in Mass Effect 2, and that's only got 1 story that I've played through a dozen times, each one tweaking it slightly differently than the last, each Shepard slightly different than the last. Just because he finds the story has no replay value, it doesn't automatically follow that others will, too.

 

Players who play for story, quit, only PvPers and Raiders stick around - False. I play for story, and I've been playing since Beta.

 

It's not an assumption to say his assumptions are false.... I'm getting all inceptionized here...

Edited November 24, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto

Really wish people would quit equating MMO to group content. An MMO contains group content. It is not group content.

I like how nobody actually adresses any of OP points.

 

Just did, thanks.

I like how nobody actually adresses any of OP points.

 

Nothing worthwhile to address, and I'm busy eating. Arguing with scenery can come later.

 

There'll always be more of it.

And how many mounths did you spend playing those 2 games, might I ask? Or years, perharps?

 

Are we playing the "Single player/Story Games Have No replayability Card"?

 

Baldurs Gate 2, released in 2000, still installed on my PC and played.

Dragon Age Origins, released 2009, still installed on PC and played.

KOTOR 1, released 2003, still own, xbox out for repairs.

KOTOR 2, Released 2004, still own, same xbox issue.

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, Released 2004, installed on PC and played

 

I can add more to the list, do i need to? Perhaps a screen Capture of my desktop with all its game icons?

Edited November 24, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

Then don't say anything, nobody will notice.

 

Nice petty response there bud. But if you're trying to offend me, surely you can do better than that.

 

I like how nobody actually adresses any of OP points.

 

I like how numerous people have made direct responses to the points OP made, but you seem to act like they don't exist?

I find the assumption that the hardcore dungeon/ops and PVP guys are the lifeblood of the game to be hilarious.

Are we playing the "Single player/Story Games Have No replayability Card"?

 

Baldurs Gate 2, released in 2000, still installed on my PC and played.

Dragon Age Origins, released 2009, still installed on PC and played.

KOTOR 1, released 2003, still own, xbox out for repairs.

KOTOR 2, Released 2004, still own, same xbox issue.

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, Released 2004, installed on PC and played

 

I can add more to the list, do i need to? Perhaps a screen Capture of my desktop with all its game icons?

 

All of those games are delightful. I've been giving KotoR 2 another few plays lately, though Fallout 4 leapt into that all kinds of disruptively.

 

Ever play Planescape: Torment?

All of those games are delightful. I've been giving KotoR 2 another few plays lately, though Fallout 4 leapt into that all kinds of disruptively.

 

Ever play Planescape: Torment?

 

I wanted to, but the discs from a loaned game were too scratched to install

 

Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 are also on my "Replayed a lot" list ^_^

 

As for Fallout, im getting this for Christmas

Edited November 24, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

I wanted to, but the discs from a loaned game were too scratched to install

 

Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 are also on my "Replayed a lot" list ^_^

 

As for Fallout, im getting this for Christmas

 

 

Vereh nahce! NWN and 2 are also old favorites here.

 

If you ever want to give Torment a go, Good Old Games (GOG) has it available for digital purchase, fully updated for compatability with modern windows platforms.

 

I think it's all of ten bucks or some such.

Apparently OP doesnt understand that a lot of people are here to be playing a Star Wars game/continuation of KOTOR and not just to play an MMO...

 

Just in case you didnt know, KOTOR 1& 2 were -Single Player- games...

 

As someone else said, that's an assumption. I came here (about 2 years or so ago, shortly after it went F2P... yup, I'm cheap. Or poor. Take your pick) because SW, and because I did love KOTOR. But not because I absolutely wanted to play SP. I like MMOs. I like knowing that that Jedi running past me is another human being.

 

I do love playing more than just Jedi or Sith. I'd prefer more story, but have no interest in KotFE because it does not continue the different class stories, but has only one story. Meh.

 

Generally, I love choice. The choice to solo *or* team up is something I completely heart.

 

I wish it were more...starwarsy. More like Jedi Knight, in fact, than KOTOR. Or a happy mix of both. RPG + FPS. For example, why can't a Force user Force Jump just so. Why only as an attack move? (And that's just one of a long list of annoyances) Force TK on any object. You get to use it on Tython. Once. And that's... it.

 

Ah, I'm ranting again. Time for my Dried Frog Pills.

Zero replayability

 

I have mentioned before about having access to the previous two expansions with our Level 60s since many of use payed upfront before both were bundled with the subscription a year later.

 

Obviously revisiting previous expansions would mean only one could be played at a time.

 

However the idea of replaying expansions over and over is much more appealing.