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New Hardmode Tuning vs PUG


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Either tune the hardmode's down a bit or do one of the following....

 

1: Fix ability lag. Can't begin to tell you when tanking these new areas how many time I have hit one of my cd's or abilities and them not go off. It isn't until I click the icon multiple times that it wants to work. And a majority of the time its when I'm close to death. So this severely needs to be looked at. Also at times the FP lags at the same time as the ability lag. So if repair cost is going to be this high now, these issues need to be looked at.

 

 

2: Raise tank defense % chance. Tank's are suppose to be designed to tank large amounts of damage, but not deal it. They are meat shields, nothing more, nothing less. And when a tank is nearly 3 shotted by trash mobs ( and being decently geared ) there is something wrong. Challenging I understand, but insanely hard is another. Most people will not queue for these new hardmode's because of so many factors. Wipes, repair costs, loot, ability lag, FP lag, trash being too hard, or raise tank's % chance for defense. I used to go into a hardmodes and not have to worry about being wiped out by trash ( unless the healer sucks ).

 

 

3: Lower coordination. Most guilds have a high coordination which makes these new hardmodes seem easy to them. However, this doesn't include a PUG's perspective. Most pugs don't have coordination for the new hardmodes. So if people find it too easy, make a "NIGHTMARE" difficulty for hardmodes and have them yield ultimate marks.

 

 

4: Dailies. At 55 instead of classic commendations for some dailies, allow basic commendations to be earned. Also raise the amount of credits earned through dailies. If the repair costs are going to be so high, give us a way of earning a higher number of credits.

 

 

We all love and enjoy the game in our own unique ways. Challenging in hardmode's isn't a terrible thing, but insanely hard is another. Insanely hard needs to be left to the operations where guilds reign. Hardmode's need to be there for those who aren't fortunate enough to be able to do operations. If things are too hard or things aren't working, then people get frustrated and quit. I know that the elitists who find these hardmode's too easy will bash this post, but who cares. Most come from hardcore guilds or are straight dps. So instead of bashing others, why not look at things from others standpoints and then come to an opinion? IMO keep the damage level where it is and lower the health pools. Honestly these new hardmode's almost feel like "nightmare" mode.

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If things are too hard or things aren't working, then people get frustrated and quit.

People also tend to get bored and quit when things are too easy.

 

What gear are you and your group in? I know I've been doing the new HM 55 FP slightly below the gear recommendation, not really fair to say they are too difficult until the entire group is at or above the designed gear level.

 

I know that the elitists who find these hardmode's too easy will bash this post, but who cares
1 not elitist. 2. not bashing. Just question the need to nerf something until we have had the proper chance to see if it is truly difficult. I remember hitting 50 on my sawbones and going into HMD7 the first time. Everyone undergeared, me with no clue how to heal, we must have wiped 10 times on the final boss. I almost quit, not because I thought the content was too hard, but because I just stunk. Got some gear, learn my abilities and by the time we were all Rakata geared we could do HM D7 without a healer or a tank. So obviously HM D7 was not too hard, it was just I had no clue and no gear.

 

Honestly these new hardmode's almost feel like "nightmare" mode.
I agree, now undergeared they feel difficult. however once geared to the proper level, I suspect they will become very easy even for PUGs.

 

Yes, I am in a guild, I do operations with a guild, most HMFP I am a PUG.

Edited by mikebevo
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I haven't had any issues with them, as long as people know the mechanics. I think we're at a phase right now where most people don't have the best gear, and people come in to the instances thinking the mechanics are basically the same as the old story modes, but they aren't. I know I am still learning a few things about each one every time I go in. For everything that we at first experience thought, "crap, this is hard", we found out we were missing out on a mechanic.

 

Soon, the mechanics will be known by most, people will find all kinds of ways to skip things and make them easier, everyone will get better gear, and people will be flying through them just like the old hard modes.

 

I'm guessing the OP wasn't playing this game at launch. I remember wiping on HM Black Talon repeatedly, for months. HK-47 in False Emperor was a major dps race that wasn't easy to win for the average person.

Edited by chuixupu
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I haven't had any trouble with pugs on any of my 11 flashpoints done so far. Some wipes, naturally, when people are still learning mechanics and a bit undergeared, but no quitters or long wipefests. A little advice goes a long way, maybe there is a time for everyone to look in the mirror.
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I have been around since beta and found the old hardmode's fun a challenging. Whereas the new hardmodes are just insanely hard. The mobs hit entirely way too hard ( I am a tank primarly 150 rated gear ). I have only had 3 successful hardmodes and 9 fails. The fails happen and people leave. Repair costs are just too damn high. Spending hours in a hardmode isn't my idea of fun. Spending hours in an operation is a given, but not a hardmode. The only other gear available for an upgrade is basic comm's and those take forever to obtain through section x and makeb. I for one am not a huge fan of large areas for dailies. It just gets really old, really fast. Black Hole daily I will do because of how consolidated it is and how fast it is to finish.
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I've been running HM's since release in mostly 63's with a few pieces of newer gear. I have yet to spend more than an hour trying to clear any of the HMs. I was expecting them to be hard, but they are incredibly easy. In the PUG groups I've been in, we're done more HM's than not without a wipe. Please do not nerf these, they are already way too easy. Very disappointing.
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I just finished Athiss for the first time, we wiped a few times but that was because we got cocky.

we were chain pulling mobs and such just to see what we could do. (answer to that question was die :cool: )

 

all in all it was challenging, and we really enjoyed the final boss. we wiped on him once due to having to learn the mechanics. It will be much easier once we are fully geared.

 

good balance leave it as is for the time being

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Yeah... a nerf for this is unnecessary. I've pugged this more than not, and I have yet to get a group that didn't finish it. Well, I had one group that I left but thats because the tank was in Columi gear with Accuracy augments in every piece- had 23k health and would die on trash.

 

Now, aside from that I have just tore through this content. Its not challenging so nerfing it just because one person finds it hard isn't a good idea.

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They might be a little hard but in no ways that hard. If you are having problems its your gear and upgrade. I would suggest being in Campaign or hazmat seeing how they are so easy to get. I find the bosses the easiest out of it all and the trash the hardest.

 

This is from a tanks prespective and I have yet to not clear a FP in a pug group or in my guild. I like how hard it is.

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No nerf necessary.

 

I had early access and rolled into the first one with 61/63 gear, as a PUG. Was it tricky? Yes. Did we wipe? Yes, about 5 times. However, once you've done it once it becomes much easier. I've run each of them about five times now and cleared them fine every time, many times as a PUG.

 

It's nice to have to pay attention to an HM again to be honest.

 

Wait until everyone in your group is 66/69/72 and, together with the practice, you'll be facerolling through it in the same way as you do with the level 50 HMs. Then people will complain they're bored and they're too easy...

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There are a couple spots where the trash pulls alpha strike the tanks pretty hard (1 spot when a bunch of strongs bust out of tanks near the start of one of the HMs...yes I know I'm vague)

 

Overall though, I've pug'd most of them and we've not had any issues. A wipe here and there but nothing out of the ordinary for starting fresh content.

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Pugged yesterday Athis - it was my first 55 HM as a juggernaut tank. I'm fairly decent geared - with full 66 crafted gear (except one relic, that is still old PvP one), and defensive stats almost at recommended spreadshet (still missing about 80 defense from optimal rating). It was hard, but fun. There were no wipes, though few deaths happens. One because I didn't notice one droid behind pillar shooting at healer, 2nd when sin' dps at the big beast accidentally pressed his area taunt :) and third, when I failed at avoiding the fire at final boss :) (but healer managed to combat ress me before wipe :D)

 

But... it was challenging in a good meaning of that word. It requires party to communicate, mark CC, use lowering threat skills and some strategic thinking. No more rush/jump/steamroll, like with old stuff. It was not too hard, and anyone who has any experience, knows his class a bit, can do it easily. And we even had a healer in not full BH gear. It was not as brutal as first try of LI HM, but you got to think, you got to cooperate and you have to accept that when something goes wrong you will die.

 

I'd love to see more of such content. Even if I die and my repair bill skyrockets, I'm still lovin that challenge.

Edited by MorgothPl
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I've been running HM's since release in mostly 63's with a few pieces of newer gear. I have yet to spend more than an hour trying to clear any of the HMs. I was expecting them to be hard, but they are incredibly easy. In the PUG groups I've been in, we're done more HM's than not without a wipe. Please do not nerf these, they are already way too easy. Very disappointing.

 

go and play lottery then^^

...maybe this is the challange to win you've been waiting for!

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While I don't think a nerf is necessary I do think fixing the INSANE lag is necessary. The lag in some of these during peak hours is so awful that I see nothing happening and then all of a sudden 6 of my attacks go off at once. It isn't my internet connection, I have no problems with other games, websites, streaming movies, etc.

 

My tank does seem to squish a lot, a problem that I noticed on the PTS. I always have my defensive cooldowns on cooldown but perhaps that is a result of being in all campaign/dread guard gear instead of the new higher level gear. It has been so long since I did a HM 50 on my tank in the dailies gear (what used to be lowest gear) but I remember feeling squishy then. My advice, give it some time and gear up.

 

Sidenote, I agree with the repair costs. After a KP run (no deaths at all) my repair bill was 30k. That seems excessive for never dying.

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No nerf necessary.

 

Anyone who says that they should be able to take more damage in the new HM FP's despite being decently geared needs to post what they mean by that. Dread guard is less than entry level gear now. It used to be endgame, and it makes for mighty fine leveling gear, but it is very hard to tank in 63's and 61's. The entry level gear is now 66. This is the gear you buy with basic comms. By the time you do Makeb, you should have enough to buy some 66 gear. On top of that, formulas have changed and I'm sure your gear from pre-2.0 isn't itemized properly.

 

My Shadow is now in full 69s on the right side, 1 Arkanian relic, Black Market ear, 1 Black Market implant, and level 66 main hand/offhand. The only pre-2.0 gear I have now is a Dread Guard relic and a Black Hole implant. My flashpoint teams are now saying "Remember when this was hard?"

 

It boils down to learning the mechanics, when to throw cooldowns, how to work each pull, etc. Things are less forgiving now because of the issue of gear. Before 2.0, if you were in Dreadguard you could pretty much solo or two man all of the HM's so when you had someone like that in your group when you were in full Tionese, they were carrying you. Now, no one gets carried because there's no one who can carry (I haven't seen any 72 modded people yet).

 

If I had a dollar every time a player in full 63's that were min/maxed for pre-2.0 tries to face roll mobs and dies before they realize their mistake...

 

Also, go back to basics. Mark and make CC's. DPS needs to kill from weak to strong. Do all of this and its easy.

 

As a tank, I experimented with different ways to handle pulls and I've settled in on the most effective ways to do them. Thinking of some of the difficult pulls:

 

The 5 strong droids before the 1st boss in Athiss. If with a sage, bubble the tank. Mark droids on one side (depends on how many CC's you have, but generally I seem to have two). Tank pulls, when bubble pops, blow a cooldown. Party gets their CC off. Kill droids that aren't CC'd. Kill cc'd droids one by one.

 

The dogs that hop up before the first boss in Mandalorian Raiders. CC the dog that starts already spawned from a distance (or with stealth) and LOS the mob out to the entrance of the room. If you have a pull, pull one of the mobs to you and DPS that one does first. Kill mobs after they come out the front of the room then kill the CC'd mob.

 

The pull in Hammer when three strongs pop out of the side on the opposite side of the room (by the pipe). LOS pull the mobs that start spawned already. You should be able to kill them before the rest of the mob shows up.

 

Cademimu doesn't have any tough pulls because you can push pretty much everything off the edge. You just have to be careful not to pull multiple mobs. In all the flashpoints, make use of the barrels and stuff that you can make explode for some CC or big spike damage on mobs. These are there for a reason and it seems like not everyone makes use of them.

 

The bosses also have some mechanics that make them laughably easy. If you're focused on reading guides instead of actually playing, you're probably missing these since you're not experimenting (are you possibly tanking Malgus on the stairs instead of the corner? This might be you!)

 

Sith Separatist. Have ranged/healer stack tight behind the crate or the corner so there's something between them and the boss. When he pulls the group in, the crate catches them and they won't get pulled in. Tank keep the boss against the back wall since it seems to make running out easier for melee. Reduces the time the healer has to spend healing the group.

 

Frogimus Maximus. That's what we call the frog boss in Hammer. Ranged stays at max range like in T&Z and they won't get hit by the AOE stun or damage and thus require no healing in the fight. Healer and melee stack behind the boss and close enough to where AOE heal catches the tank also. Healer bubble the tank when the tank receives a debuff that looks like a fist. Tank, pop a cooldown immediately after he channels whatever ability he uses. But if you're a full ranged group, and the healer just has to heal the tank and themselves, its very easy.

 

Gil. You can have the group hop up on the big cargo crate right next to where Gil spawns. Keep the tank separate and DPS him down and he can't get to the other team members very easily here. Melee just cheats in to hit him then out when the red circle pops. This is kind of like the pull on the Trando boss in FE.

 

Big Dog Thats what I call the dog boss in Athiss. Fun fact, if you are biochem and have the dog with you, save that dog for this fight. The added DPS from the dog is nice but what is really nice is that having the dog with you lets you activate your Heroic Moment and use your legacy abilities. Crap, now that I wrote that, its gonna get nerfed.

 

Anyway, play with mechanics. Try to figure out creative ways to approach pulls. Make use of LOS pulls a lot. Take the time before fights to go over mechanics with your group (not everyone has done every boss now, so dont assume everyone knows everything). Work on your gear through getting basics and grinding flashpoints and elite comms.

 

The new FP's are a lot of fun right now. Let's not ruin them because we're not up to the challenge. Its a chance to develop your skills as a player, which is important if you want to get into operations. Sorry about the wall of text.

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If you are having problems with Hard Mode FPs then you don't need to be PvEing. You can 3 man all of them.

 

Video or it didn't happen :)

 

Now, I understand that some hardcore people in their hardcore gear can 3-man it. Hell, we 3-manned one of bossess at Athiss, due to DPS dying. But, we have to consider, that there are many people who are new to MMOs. They are still learning, and they may struggle with the content.

 

The solution however is not to nerf the content, but somehow help those less fortunate with gear, who are still on start of their learning curve, don't have money to buy crafted gear and don't have chars who can craft items for them. I can afford few wipes, if that would teach someone some things about playing this game.

 

Besides, I'd rather have a new player in the group, who is willing to learn, than "leet" DPS, who behaves like Ares himself, but dies at first trash pack and causes wipes.

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I tried it first time today, Mandalorian raiders it was. Didn't feel that hard, I think nobody died during whole thing. Average hp was around 25k probably. Maybe I was jsut lucky for good teammates. Edited by zzoorrzz
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...

 

The solution however is not to nerf the content, but somehow help those less fortunate with gear, who are still on start of their learning curve, don't have money to buy crafted gear and don't have chars who can craft items for them. I can afford few wipes, if that would teach someone some things about playing this game.

 

....

Exactly. 100%.

 

The thing that saddens me is those who come to the forums to ask for nerfs rather than assistance. There are many many helpful people who would quickly help anyone who posted, "I'm having troubles with X, what should I do?"

 

I know this because I was in this boat last year. I got tips, advice, strategies, help, etc. All anyone has to do is ask.

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