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Sith Sorcerer Feedback

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Myfael's Avatar

08.05.2019 , 03:51 PM | #71
Having 40 toons on my main server and a few on other servers, I play mostly sorc/sage in regs and ranked PvP (yeah, even after 5.0 nerfed to depression sorc when buffed to ubergods mercs back then). I had high hopes for 6.0 especially since Keith took over. Now I must say after joining PTS wzs, it feels kinda joyless.

Main reason is that sorc got that mistake of an ability - I mean after hoasting Tenebrae I acquire this little lightning spits, that both look and feel like that first fight with Lord Paladius on NS when your connection to the force is severed. Skanks like Immortal jugg with dps gear get tacticals that make infinite Enraged Defence loop + 25% damage ability, sorc gets little lightning spit, that might maybe tickle some mob so he can laugh at that laughstock sorc constantly is becomming. I would rly want to see how devs from "fight team" are going with dps sorc (best madness at this piont) in Ranked arenas.

Curretnly sorc need some serious buff and ability change. Btw I always loved Force Wave in Kotor and Kotor 2,
why not make Overload more like that so it could be much more usefull and rather lore friendly. Some tactical maybe.

As for new ability again It could be changed for one rly strong (strongest dps sorc hit or healing for Corruption spec.) energy blast that cost u full force bar and makes u weary or something like that. Good Luck fixing sorcs! Counting on you guys!

Sarova's Avatar

08.05.2019 , 07:25 PM | #72
This is a rant fuelled bit of feedback. Feel free to skip, unless you're a dev

Did more out-in-the-world testing on a lightning sorcerer and I'm leaning towards it being a game breaking experience for me. I really hope the current "balance" is just messed up due it being the PTS because if the lightning sorcerer goes live in this state no-one will play them.

I did the weekly conquest objectives just to get a variety of things to practice with / test out abilities. In the Blackhole daily area, I was killed in the heroic. KILLED, DAMMIT! Who the hell dies in there? A strong (not even elite) droid mob hit me for three quarters of my health in that heroic, which was followed by a hit from his droid mate and I was finished. ***? What on earth has happened to our survive-ability? It was all we had after the 5.0 nerf. None of my healing abilities seem to heal me for anything more then 10 health on the PTS (well, its seems that low). Our shield no longer does anything (one lowbie mob hit and it's gone). Companions seem to have gone on strike and barely do anything useful. Our AoE which was superb, is just pants now. Our single target damage was never good, now it's just gone. Most areas I visited (Ossus, Dantooine, Taris, Blackhole and Balmorra (yes Balmorra)) challenged way more than is experienced with my level 70 on live. Ample use of medpacs was needed. I've only ever used a medpac for PvE during the world boss fights on Ossus, the world boss Lucky, against that bi*ch Vaylin, hard mode star fortresses and when I went afk too long once and came back to near death. I certainly didn't expect a level 75 in the new gear set to be so bad.

Many of us spent many hours getting our lightning Sorcs to a passable level of damage for PvE and superb survival for PvP but now the PTS is showing that this is gone? Lowbie strong mobs are pointing and laughing at lightning characters on the PTS. I really hope it's because the area level ranges are just messed up. If, however, the nerf to our damage and survival are intended, me and my sub money are most definitely out. I expect the level 70+ areas to be challenging, yes. I DO NOT expect the lowbie areas to become super-kill-zones.

Devs, you can't take away our ability to survive and keep our damage output at abysmal. Not if you want us to stay subbed and stay playing. There is far too much temptation coming elsewhere to put up with this malarkey. You can't base all your info on Test Dummy shenanigans.
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Ollmich's Avatar

08.09.2019 , 03:52 AM | #73
I’m not excited about the changes for Corruption / Seer spec.

Set bonuses
As others have already mentioned, the loss of the current set bonus affects rotation and Force management in a negative way. It does feel like a nerf. New set bonuses are not even close to being a decent alternative, very few of them are useful for Sorc healers in PvE.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Dark Consumption - Dark Heal heals more if you have a Weary or Reverse Corruption stack and consumes 1 stack upon use.
It feels like a tactical as they were described at first since it encourages you to adjust your rotation and precede each Dark heal with Consuming darkness while having stacks of Force surge. Sadly, the bonus amount of healing is not that big to justify possible problems with Force management, and no one is going to care about +2 end and +2 alac.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Gathering Storm - Activating Force Speed reduces the cooldown of Polairty Shift by 5 seconds. Using Polarity Shift immediately after extends its duration.
I agree with those who are concerned that there’re too much buffs tied to Force speed. I don’t want to use it on CD to buff something, I want to use it when I need a quick relocation – you know, what it was designed for. I can’t double check it at this moment but I believe this set bonus provides one more effect which is similar to Surging Speed utility (reduced CD on Force Speed/Force Slow/Force Barrier). That's... weird. Sure, it allows choosing another utility from the 2nd tier, but nothing else here is really worth taking for PvE healing.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • All For One - Revivification heals more for each ally it affects.
  • One For All - Revivification heals more the fewer allies it affects.
I’m still not sure if these tacticals actually work. Tested them on healing dummies, here’re numbers I got:
  • One for all: 8 targets – 147k, 2 targets – 14k and 16k (comp happend to be around).
  • All for one: 8 targets – 130k, 1 target – 17k.
  • Without them: 8 targets – 136k, 1 target – 15k.
Tested them both in Hammer Station HM and didn’t feel any difference.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Healing Volts - Damaging an enemy with Volt Rush causes your ally closest to the enemy to be healed, scaling with how many Energized stacks are on the enemy.
This one can be useful when a healer needs to off-dps a lot. I’d prefer it being a “smart” heal like Roaming mend which prioritizes group members with lower amount of HP but it just heals for a small amount a dude who happened to be closer to the target than others. I can see myself taking it from time to time though.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Extra Mend - Roaming Mend can now heal up to 5 targets instead of 4.
Extra mend seems to be the most decent tactical but it’s also the most boring and unimaginative.

TL;DR. New set bonuses and tacticals are hardly worth the grind. Losing out current set bonus affects negatively rotation and Force management. Please consider making old set bonuses available for 75 lvl players or at least turn their effects into passives for respective disciplines.

Psyotic's Avatar

08.13.2019 , 08:39 AM | #74
The new Setboni are way worse than the old ones.
There are exact 0 Setboni, who effect a madness sorcerer in a positiv and direct way.
The 2% Bonis are +2% of the stats, thats worse again. +2% hard gonna be way better.
In the actual PTS version, no madness sorcerer will going for a 6 piece bonus and the old ones are useles with 75...nice.
You spoke about tactical items, which can effect direclty, like more targets for chainlightning, or only one target for this. But nothing like this is in the game.
The most tactical are better or worse setboni.
The new ability of the sorcerer is useless and if you gonna use it, it harms the gameplay in a negativ way, in every spezialization.
Plz give the madness sorcerer there 8m deathfiled back, there are numerous exsamples where the 8m are perfect (pve) and 5m is just crap. Most of the PVE-Groups are standing in a 8m diameter. Even in Raidcontent are numerous exsamples for this situation. 8m, or 5m is a enormous difference, when you hav to bomb adds near the boss. As a exsample, bomb adds by Tyth (GotM), mostly the adds are to far away, or the boss gonna eat them.
If it is a constant problem for pvp, just split the skills for pvp/pve, as in other classes. Give pve 8m and pvp 5m.
There are so many exsamples where a class was nerfed becaus of pvp, and thats my real problem. I dont play pvp, i wanna play pve. Plz du nerf skills for pvp only.

- need better setboni
-- especially for the chosen specialisation
-- hard 2% buffs
- tacticals, which make a difference in gameplay
- useful new skill
- 8m deahtfiled

Folcwar's Avatar

08.14.2019 , 03:47 PM | #75
I just want to add my 2 cents on lightning sorc - just lightning.(PvE)

I have spent the day testing several set ups,
Currently the best set up I have found (by far) is Gathering storm set bonus + stormwatch tactical.
The stormwatch tactical, adds 3.5k to 4.3k dps. making it very strong (to strong?), parsing in the mid 18k on average, with a 19k spike. dps, on a 4 milion dummy, with only the inqusitor class buff

The Second test up I spent sometime testing, was again Gathering storm set bonus + Eyrin's Haste
This set up, I must say is quite fun to play with, but does about 2 to 3k less dps than the above set up.

I like the idea of force speed being tied to a lot of buffs, and to think what abilty to use it on. (thundering blast or 3x lightning bolt in Eyrin's Haste case.) allthough the choice seems 3x lightningbolt most of the time.

Other than the above set up, - most other stuff, range from situational to useless, with the exception of the flat damamge increase tacticals (greased lightning, and biorythm) but they add about the same dps as Eyrin's Haste while being nowhere near as intresting.)

After some furhter testing today, hit a 20.3k parse with the Gathering storm + stormwatch.
the other set up I gave some tries were with the Endless Offensive set bonus, which feels really clunky and not fun at all, being about a 1.5k-2.5k dps loss vs gathering storm, 17.5k vs 20k (with stormwatch), Even with the set bonus which is meant to make volt rush better, it is still a really lack luster abilty, - the animation has a really slow feel to it (it seems to take longer than a gcd using this skill), According to star parse, using this set bonus, the largest hit is just shy of 15k (14492) with the average hit being 10k this vs lightning bolt Largest hit 14.1 but average hit 10.3k - with this set up, I had 40 volt rush hits for a total of 401k damage vs lightning bolt on the same parse 35 hits for 363k

this entire set bonus seems like kind of a mess, because even under the right circumstances for volt rush, you're still better of just using lightning bolt in all situations, the only thing I see volt rush having any use, is if you have to move so much that you are out of instant casts or casts you can't use on the move (basicly unbuffed lightning bolts and crushing darkness, which in PvE doesn't happen often enough to warrant this set bonus ( as honestly the diffrence between it and gathering storm is to big, while also not being fun at all)

-- edit 2 --
After furhter testing with Gathering storm + stormwatch and all class buffs (not raid buffs) the average parse for me is 20.2k (15 parses, non below 20k all between 20k and 20.5k) with the real number of stormwatch being 3.7k - 4k. on the tooltip it says 'A lightning blast is called down, dealing 2398 energy damage' on star parse the average hit 3500-3700 and highest crit being 4600 to 4800, I really suggest either making this abilty never crit (making each hit the 2.4k the took tip says) or nerfing the damage it deals by atleast half to 1200, even with this it might still be to strong, but it is something to test.
But with there being so much useless, or otherwise situational things, I don't really see the 'play the way you want', it just adds a lot of confusion if anything. - I would actually like the amount of set bonuses significly reduced (preffably 1 pvp, and pve set) things like Dire Retaliation, Decelerator's and Controller just seem like traps, I doubt even for pvp they will find any use, (not worth taking over other 6 set pieces like Gathering storm) this is not even talking about the general set bonuses, that I don't think will find any play ever, (all of the 'if you are below 50% health' set bonuses (but that is for another topic, not the sorc specfic one)

TerraStomper's Avatar

08.16.2019 , 10:13 PM | #76
Corruption Sorc (or Seer Sage) may not be viable in 6.0 without the 4- and 6-piece set bonuses from the Force-Mystic's Set, particularly in the more intense group content, assuming they will be tuned and balanced to a similar difficulty level as they are in Live.

The 1.5 second CD reduction to Innervate did 2 things: It increased the potential healing output of Innervate by 25%. This is useful particularly after a heavy damage phase to help with force recovery and still heal. 2) it slotted in a spot for an extra Consuming Darkness into the rotation. This was helpful to prepare for the next incoming damage spike.

With the 4-piece Force-Mystic's bonus, Consuming Darkness returned 45 Force with each use. In 6.0 its back to 40. This is a 12.5% nerf. Still, Consuming Darkness invokes GCD, so that's 1.2+ seconds of silence right there, depending on alacrity.

On the PTS, I found myself running out of force unless I dropped back to a "leveling" rotation where I spend about 10% of the time doing nothing so force regen would keep the force pool above the tipping point. Nothing or move into melee range and feebly whack with the lightsaber. Worth some giggles, but not viable in harder content.

The Sorc healer set bonuses do look interesting in 6.0, but I don't think they're a viable enough bonus to counter the force management problem the discipline currently has.

Are or will there be new abilities woven into the Corruption Discipline in the level 50-75 range to address the management problem? I would welcome them becoming less gear dependent.

Ollmich's Avatar

08.18.2019 , 02:00 AM | #77
I noticed some changes to Sorc set bonuses which haven't been mentioned yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Revitalize - (4) Resurgence heals for 5% more. (6) Healing a target with another ability while Resurgence is active on them has a chance to cause an extra Resurgence tick for half. Refreshing Resurgence on a target refunds some force.
New: (4) Reduces cooldown of Innervate ot Healing Trance by 1,5 sec.

That's really nice. Looks like this set will be default for Corruption Sorcs, at least 4 pieces. Hopefully it won't be hard to get.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Gathering Storm - (4) Force Speed makes your next Force attack deal more damage. (6) Activating Force Speed reduces the cooldown of Polairty Shift by 5 seconds. Using Polarity Shift immediately after extends its duration.
New: (4) Force Speed makes your next Force attack deal 5% more damage.

Guess it's good for dps Sorcs but I don't see myself using this set as a healer. Oh well, 1,5 sec reduction on Innervate CD rocks anyway.

EmperorRus's Avatar

08.18.2019 , 03:58 AM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Gathering Storm - (4) Force Speed makes your next Force attack deal more damage. (6) Activating Force Speed reduces the cooldown of Polairty Shift by 5 seconds. Using Polarity Shift immediately after extends its duration.
Favors TK/Lightning over Balance/Madness.

Sarova's Avatar

08.18.2019 , 04:17 AM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Sarova View Post
This is a rant fuelled bit of feedback. Feel free to skip, unless you're a dev <snipped>
Constructive Rantless Feedback this time!

Further to my previous fuel-filled rant, an update for this phase of the PTS. I did a few heroics, daily areas and the Gree event to see if anything had changed and indeed it has; our damage output is back to being decent and it appears lightning sorcerers have regained much of our previous survive-ability,
My PTS Sorc is still using the "Endless Offensive Set" which now has +2% alacrity (2pc), Volt Rush deals 10% more damage (4pc), Energize now stack up to 3 times and force speed immediately recharges 2 Volt Rush ability charges (6pc). I'm also using the Element Convention tactical item (scroll down to lightning) and this time around Volt Rush has gone from an almost-useless-forgotten-about-ability to a large part of my rotation; I think the set bonuses really helped that ability. The force speed bonus isn't much use to me as a solo player doing missions and PvE stuff since I rarely use force speed during fights, however, I do a lot of regular warzones and I can see this bonus being excellent in those. Dare I say it; it was actually FUN TO PLAY LIGHTNING on the PTS
I can't say if the ability enhancing amplifiers I have made any difference at all as it's not clear if they're working as intended yet (though I may use amplifiers for improving QoL and crafting rather than enhancing stats).
I did level up my companion to influence 50 (after I discovered the PTS crafting boost thingy gives you more credits so I could afford to buy the extortionate gifts from the vendor on Odessen), so he is a bit better than useless now
Finally, I changed the way I build my stats. I'll leave the caps to the experts (I don't know what the accuracy cut off will be), however I stacked alacrity over crit with my augments and this seems to have helped me a lot.

I really miss my hard-earned level 50 legacy perks though.
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rebelziggy's Avatar

08.18.2019 , 08:08 PM | #80
tried the sorcerer had all kinds of problems the main problem is I couldn't fight with the lightsaber everytime I tried to use it not ready yet flashed up on the screen