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Duping Armor Sets & selling on the GTN

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Duping Armor Sets & selling on the GTN

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
02.13.2019 , 04:25 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by KarajansJamara View Post
I'm aware of those that actively play the game to trade etc but duping is something that occurs in every game and I know how to spot it after 20+years gaming and trading in many MMO's myself. The way they list, what they list and when they list are all telltale signs of duping.
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Pscyon's Avatar


Pscyon
02.13.2019 , 05:40 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by KarajansJamara View Post
but to people who actually enjoy the trading part of the game it is ruining their enjoyment
I enjoy trading. Spesifically I enjoy trading when I get a good deal. A lower price is a better deal to me. I hope this stuff starts happening on Darth Malgus too, I wouldn't mind some cheap armour sets.
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.13.2019 , 05:50 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by KarajansJamara View Post
This seems to be getting worse lately. I can easily find at least a dozen characters who are selling pages and pages of armor sets and sometimes decorations.

Not multiple different ones, which is normal seller behaviour but up to 6 pages of the same one or multiple stacks of 20 decorations etc. They then list them all at prices much lower than the current selling value.

I understand that some people will say "so what" but to people who actually enjoy the trading part of the game it is ruining their enjoyment and screwing up the server economy at the same time.

And there's the part where this is against the games EULA and a ban-able offence.

I've reported them in the past but nothing happens, they just keep on doing it. Is it even worth reporting them anymore?
Are the game devs even bothered about it?
Can I ask what sort of items? Knowing what they are might help us understand how itís duping.
Are they CM items?
Are they crafted items?
Are they dropped items?

Sarova's Avatar


Sarova
02.13.2019 , 05:56 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
lol. ^
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LD_Little_Dragon's Avatar


LD_Little_Dragon
02.13.2019 , 06:05 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Can I ask what sort of items? Knowing what they are might help us understand how itís duping.
Are they CM items?
Are they crafted items?
Are they dropped items?
^ This is a very important question.

If they're crafted items, then I've gone from listing 5 or 6 at a time to putting up 20 or more when someone decides to buy up my reasonably priced crafted items and then relist them for a much higher price. I'll keep throwing them up at my price since it's all profit to me. For the tier 1 and 2 items I'm usually getting 3 to 4 times the cost of making them, and there is an infinite supply of them to feed to the relister.

I keep a supply of some crafted items in my legacy bay so I can list them with whatever character I'm playing that day, and don't have to bother logging into the actual crafter alt.

*note: I base my selling prices on the cost of running crew missions to get the mats, not the ridiculously high mat prices you find on the GTN.
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Drew_Braxton's Avatar


Drew_Braxton
02.13.2019 , 06:26 PM | #26
It is rather irresponsible to label what you observed as duping when you have absolutely no proof. Just because you don't know how someone got that many items does NOT mean it was duping.

It was very common practice for many years to buy up tons of cartel market items when packs first came out, sit on them for a few months to a year and then start listing them when the packs went out of rotation. You could load up on gear for a couple hundred credits then sell them later for much more. I still have hundreds and hundreds of mounts just sitting there along with characters will full bank tabs of armor pieces from older packs. I just sold 12,000 void matter not long ago. Not everyone has 12,000 void matters, but it doesn't mean an exploit was used to obtain them.

There are other scenarios as well such as those crafty players with characters on several servers who buy cheap on one server and move to another server where the selling price is higher.

Its a free market full of scoundrels and hutts so there is no normal. Just because you don't understand how someone did something in a video game doesn't mean it was done through cheating or duping. Sure there have been exploits in the past, but those have been very rare so not the likely reason for what you saw.
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.13.2019 , 09:06 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by LD_Little_Dragon View Post
^ This is a very important question.

If they're crafted items, then I've gone from listing 5 or 6 at a time to putting up 20 or more when someone decides to buy up my reasonably priced crafted items and then relist them for a much higher price. I'll keep throwing them up at my price since it's all profit to me. For the tier 1 and 2 items I'm usually getting 3 to 4 times the cost of making them, and there is an infinite supply of them to feed to the relister.

I keep a supply of some crafted items in my legacy bay so I can list them with whatever character I'm playing that day, and don't have to bother logging into the actual crafter alt.

*note: I base my selling prices on the cost of running crew missions to get the mats, not the ridiculously high mat prices you find on the GTN.
I prefer to keep my listings to 3-5 at a time and keep the price a little bit higher. The less you list in one hit, the less people undercut by too much. I find if I list a whole bunch, even if the price is high, people drive the price down fast because they think that person must be selling heaps and they want some action.

The problem with that is it floods the market and keeps the price down too low for too long (because some people are dumb and will continue to undercut even when itís too low) and it can take weeks and weeks till the price becomes a reasonable market price again where you donít need to list 50 to get the same amount of credits as selling 10.

I did try it your way for a while and everytime it was nearly detrimental to the market price and I ultimately made less credits in the same period of time (when people didnít drive the price down). I actually tracked it on a spread sheet over a month and made 10mil extra per week when I did not flood the market (and others didnít)

Some items will always sell at a higher price and be hard to keep in stock because there is high demand for them. These are items that never need to be discounted much. But some people canít understand that and think theyíll sell more and make more credits if they drive the price down and list 50 at a time. The reality is it takes 5 times longer to get those mats, make those items to get the same amount of credits as selling 10 at the higher price.
But listing 3-5 items at a time works the best if you are on at the same time and can restock as you sell. This allows other sellers to maybe sell 1 or 2 and they are less likely to undercut you much if they relist more,

What drives me crazy is when people undercut an item by half the amount, even if it is selling well at the current market price and I literally canít keep them in stock and I had a stock pile at the start, 5 Alts doing missions or crafting and my wife farming mats,
Itís absolutely ludicrous to drive the price down by that much and then you get a bunch of other noobs who undercut them.

I donít ever undercut more the. 1-5 credits. Itís just not needed because everyone ends up losing credits and if people are sorting by price, they usually buy the cheapest anyway.
I see some people under cut by 100 and think dumb, but ok. Then I see others undercut by 1000 -2500 and you know the price is going to take a dive because the next guy will do the same and the next.

1000 credits or even 100 credits doesnít sound a lot at first. Itís only 1000 you miss out on. But when the next guy comes along and does the same and the next and the next. All of a sudden you are faced with the decision on wether to relist and lose 5000-20000 credits instead of the 1000 credits that didnít seem like much or make the decision to remove them from the market so it doesnít look so flooded.
If everyone stuck to a 1-10 credit under cutting policy, we could under cut each other all day before the price got driven down 2000 credits.

Some people are allergic to making credits easy and donít understand market forces or buyer demand.

GTN selling, Itís not rocket science guide :

1. Items in high demand donít need to be discounted
2. Items in low demand can be discounted in an undercut war (but donít flood the market or under cut drastically because it still wonít sell faster because itís a low demand item)
3. Dont make too many low demand items so you donít have to discount as much to clear them (made that mistake)
4. Stock up on mats and items of high demand and sell enough at a time as to not flood the market and have enough mats to keep crafting and for the demand (nothing worse when you run out and there is a run on something)
5. Dont drastically undercut other sellers to clear stock. You get less credits for your hard work or time. It drives the market price down. Itís better to pull an item if someone does that so that less are listed and when they disappear, relist at a more reasonable rate.
6. If you see someone stupidly list something too low thatís a high volume seller. Buy some, not all of them at once (if they list 20 because all you are personally doing is feeding them credits and they will keep listing the price much lower than it needs to be because they saw so many sell in one hit.
7. When you buy some, donít relist unless youíve cleared their few from the market. Even then, donít list many. Just wait till youíve sold a few incase they reappear and flood the market again.
8. When you log out and you want to list. Donít list more than 6 high volume items or more than 3 low volume. (Seems weird I know, but you arenít likely to sell more because other people know itís a high volume and will be undercutting you the whole time you are off).
9. Spread you crafting across enough items that you can still list 50 items when you log off, but youíve not over listed some. You will make more credits than listing 10-50 of the same thing.
10. When you login, check what sold the most and the fastest (by time interval it was sold). See if you still have items listed, what price they are and what the market price is. If you sold none or one and you are still the cheapest, there is a good chance this is the wrong price and a low demand item. (Donít list too many low demand items when you log off unless they sell for a lot of credits and there are hardly ever listed by other people).

Anyway, thatís my basic crafting GTN selling guide for dummies. It isnít everything (donít want to give all my secrets away). But it works well and gives a good steady income with less effort and allows the market to be healthy for everyone, both sellers and buyers alike.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.13.2019 , 09:16 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Drew_Braxton View Post
It is rather irresponsible to label what you observed as duping when you have absolutely no proof. Just because you don't know how someone got that many items does NOT mean it was duping.

It was very common practice for many years to buy up tons of cartel market items when packs first came out, sit on them for a few months to a year and then start listing them when the packs went out of rotation. You could load up on gear for a couple hundred credits then sell them later for much more. I still have hundreds and hundreds of mounts just sitting there along with characters will full bank tabs of armor pieces from older packs. I just sold 12,000 void matter not long ago. Not everyone has 12,000 void matters, but it doesn't mean an exploit was used to obtain them.

There are other scenarios as well such as those crafty players with characters on several servers who buy cheap on one server and move to another server where the selling price is higher.

Its a free market full of scoundrels and hutts so there is no normal. Just because you don't understand how someone did something in a video game doesn't mean it was done through cheating or duping. Sure there have been exploits in the past, but those have been very rare so not the likely reason for what you saw.
I bet some of those mounts and armour sell slow and not for very much. I use to do the same thing you describe and Iíve noticed since you can buy items direct from the CM, those items sell slower and slower for less and less as time goes buy.
Iíve items that use to sell for few mill a few years ago that I can hardly give away. Some are so old now that I canít even remember what I purchased them for or if Iím losing credits on them.
I had a mass clearance 12 months ago of heaps to just clear some space and recoup some credits before they became worthless. If the OP saw my posting back then he would probably have assumed I was duping.
I find I make more credits selling some crafted blue item pieces than some CM items that use to be in high demand.
Even some of those ďfree dropĒ Stonghold items go for more than many of the old CM items.

Keta's Avatar


Keta
02.13.2019 , 11:26 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by xordevoreaux View Post
And the possibility exists that someone spent a lot of credits buying up everyone else's version of a given armor on the GTN and then repriced/bundled them to form their own little monopoly of that item.
Back in the day ....

I cornered the market for certain key mid/high grade crafting materials in two or three crafting profession on Earthen Ring in that game (Plain vanilla version). Had a load of fun doing it and setting prices where I wanted them to be -- high low, whatever suited my fancy at the time. Then it got to be too much work and things went back to normal. Sort of like happens around here.
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Inspirals's Avatar


Inspirals
02.14.2019 , 03:16 PM | #30
Right now on Darth Malgus server, the same person has 26 sets of Tulak Hord's Armor for 9 million credits each. That's a gold cartel market item. I don't know how legitimate that is, and I don't know how much SWTOR has suffered with duping in the past, but I've seen it extensively on other games.