Yeah, I am just poking fun.

 

Its just recently rewatching ROTJ I've realised how morally questionable that was. But overall I agree with you, the Sith Code allows for immoral acts to be justified while the Jedi Code would seem to prevent them.

Heh. Speaking of which (sorry to derail slightly), but I've been seriously considering getting the BluRay versions of all 6 movies and watching them with the family.

 

I've only ever seen the prequel movies once (in the theatre as they came out), and it's been about 10 years since I've watched the original 3.

 

Do you think 1-2-3-4-5-6 would be a better sequence than my initial inclination of 4-5-6-1-2-3?

Edited June 10, 2013 by Khevar

Heh. Speaking of which (sorry to derail slightly), but I've been seriously considering getting the BluRay versions of all 6 movies and watching them with the family.

 

I've only ever seen the prequel movies once (in the theatre as they came out), and it's been about 10 years since I've watched the original 3.

 

Do you think 1-2-3-4-5-6 would be a better sequence than my initial inclination of 4-5-6-1-2-3?

Erm... doesn't really matter. If it were me I'd do OT then PT. Because I feel prequels should be watched in the way it was intended, as prequels. Then you get that dramatic irony.

According to BW/Lucas Arts the sith are unquestionably be evil. Destroying planets, killing younglings, etc...

 

Unfortunately, for the most part the sith are Scoboy Doo kind of evil, like the sith emperor, in TOR or in the movies. Some sith villains were interesting like Baras and the Sith Lords in Kotor 2. But for the most part I would describe the sith as "I love evil. Evil is fun. Muwhaha."

 

Evil and unrealistic.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Ottoattack

Evil characters don't have to be performing evil acts 24/7 to be considered evil. And most opposing views seem to say that because not ALL Sith are evil, they can't be classified as evil. (which I disagree with)

Having played the first 10 levels of trooper, jedi knight, imperial agent, and now sith inquisitor, I've found the sith inquisitor easiest to play on a role playing server. I've come to terms with the nature of his "evil" as of the same form as Andrew Ryan the founder of Rapture in Bioshock. I play my sorcerer as a character who knows he is the smartest and most powerful person in the room -- who appreciates persons of (almost) equal knowledge and power who have also raised themselves from nothing to greatness. However, he is contemptuous of weakness, idleness, and stupidity. He refuses to help those who won't or can't help themselves since doing so would be a disservice both to them and to the galaxy as a whole.

 

More of a Randian selfishness than irrational sadism. Oddly enough, this has meant that I don't play a pure evil conversation line in the story since about a third of the dark side choices seem to me to be irrationally sadistic choices that actually do not directly advance my characters goal.

This argument was fun during beta when there was nothing else to talk about.

 

If you think that "Sith", as a generic term, are not evil then you are just one of those people that likes to argue.

 

Police - Good people in general. Few bad apples mixed in but its safe to say Police are "Good" in general.

Criminals - Bad people in general. Few "Robin Hood" types who only commit non-violent crimes, but still "Bad" people in general.

Sith - Try to rule the known universe. Kill anyone who gets in the way. Few upstanding citizens, but mostly just "Bad Guys" who are evil.

I like to think of it as the jedi being equivalent to superman and the sith like batman. both are "good" but go about it in their own way. both sides may have questionable methods but that's not to say they are wrong. in the end both sides do whatever it is they feel best accomplishes their goals. imo ppl who say "jedi are good, sith are evil " without any legitimate reason to support their claim for both factions are just simple-minded fanbois.

It's just basic George Lucas stuff not that complicated. The Empire was modeled after the Nazis.

 

Sith use the dark side of the force which corrupts them, therefore they are evil due to the fact that they are corrupt and lack moral behavior. I don't see the empire as necessary evil, and this is illustrated many times in the story lines of both factions (in fact both sides team up on Hoth). They are just pawns for Sith to control. Sith promote the meanest of the armed forces to higher positions like Moff, so you could probably claim that both SIth and their high ranking officials are evil.

*snip* I play my sorcerer as a character who knows he is the smartest and most powerful person in the room -- who appreciates persons of (almost) equal knowledge and power who have also raised themselves from nothing to greatness. However, he is contemptuous of weakness, idleness, and stupidity. He refuses to help those who won't or can't help themselves since doing so would be a disservice both to them and to the galaxy as a whole.

 

More of a Randian selfishness than irrational sadism. Oddly enough, this has meant that I don't play a pure evil conversation line in the story since about a third of the dark side choices seem to me to be irrationally sadistic choices that actually do not directly advance my characters goal.

This kind of perfectly illustrates why Sith can be considered "evil" as a group contrasted to the "good" as a group Jedi.

 

The Jedi/Republic side of the game has Light Side/Dark Side choices that range from Light Side being altruistic and always putting others before yourself, to Dark Side being willing to screw others over out of complete self-interest or ends-justify-the-means mentality.

The Sith/Empire side, however, often has rational self-interest as the Light Side end of the scale, with killing puppies and eating babies as the Dark Side end.

 

So yes, there is significant variation within each side, and it is possible to have a Sith character who could be considered moral or even good, but overall the behavior range is drastically shifted between Jedi and Sith.

Well let's go back to George Lucas and what he said the motive behind Star Wars and the jedi - sith light v dark was.

 

 

He said it had to do with choices and to say that there are truly bad people who don't care about people ( Sith) He also said that the whole Light and Dark side concepts were from the point of view that there are always morale choices that must be made (Light - dark side choices)

 

So, yes the Sith as an entity are evil. They were created to be the most despicable beings ever conceived.

 

The Jedi were to be their opposite, they were meant to be wise and a the model of good people.

 

Now it is possible for a jedi to fall. It is also for a Sith to adopt a jedi way of things.

 

Someone made a comment earlier about how the merciful sith we can choose to play in the game shouldn't be possible. But, it is possible. They may have their own set of morales and may feel pity on some people.

 

Best to note that each Sith and each Jedi are still individuals with individual motives and such.

I have sort of the same character for both Republic and Empire; the only real difference is that her as a Sith Inquisitor is an alternate timeline where the Empire enslaved her. I'm building her up to be as lightsided as possible; one of the things she justifies being Sith with is "if I'd followed the Jedi Code, I would still be a slave."

I don't think that Sith are innately evil not good. Moreover, I would say that neither are Jedi. I believe that it comes down to ones perception of good and evil. All you can do is compare their beliefs and actions (individually) against your own moral compass. I will take two Sith from vastly different periods to illustrate this: Lumiya (Dark Lady of the Sith between 4 ABY - 41 ABY) and Vitiate (The Sith Emperor in SWTOR).

 

Lumiya desires peace and states "The Sith way is the way of peace. To bring peace, first we must bring justice and order. To bring justice and order to the galaxy, first we must control it". Where as Vitiate *POTENTIAL SPOILER* seeks to kill everyone in the galaxy in order to make himself truly immortal.

 

So you need to ask yourself, do you find both to be evil, one to be evil, or both to be good? Though, if you think that Vitiate's goals are good I may have to stop you from helping him to massacre the galaxy... haha

 

Side note: Then we have all the other Sith throughout SW lore that have goals which blur the lines between good and evil. Revan: to protect the republic from the Sith Empire (before his retcon, which I still pretend didn't happen), Vader: To end a war and save his wife (even though he was manipulated), Kreia: To make the Jedi see her point of view, Caedus: To end a galactic war, and Vergere: Also to get the Jedi to see the force from a different point of view, just to name a few.

The problem with that, though, is that everyone in your example turned out to be evil and to do more harm than good (except arguably Anakin, but only after he left the dark side). The Sith Code has interesting aspects worth study, but the organization as a whole seems too malevolent to salvage.

So, yes the Sith as an entity are evil. They were created to be the most despicable beings ever conceived.

 

The Jedi were to be their opposite, they were meant to be wise and a the model of good people.

 

While it's clear that this was how they were originally written, it's actually quite interesting from a philosophical perspective. Jedi embody self-control and even self-denial to an extent, fighting for others at the expense on one self if necessary, while Sith represent indulgence and self-empowerment. Is this necessarily evil? I don't think so.

 

However, the Sith as portrayed in this game are generally evil. Not just a little bit either; a lot of these characters are cartoon-evil. I think Star Wars (in the movies) never goes beyond the classic struggle between good and evil, but in the EU (and in our own minds) we are free to explore a more complex and interesting view involving a whole lot of grey.

Edited August 27, 2013 by thecoffeecup

If you think Sith aren't Evil as a generalization....

 

Count how many specific non-evil Sith you have ever even HEARD of (or seen depicted in art, games, etc). Including your own toons. Answer will most likely be under 5. (unless there's a story somewhere about some Sith light side sect)

 

Now count how many evil Sith you have ever even heard of, or seen depicted in art, games, etc. The answer is likely over 100. For one, 99.9% of all Sith NPCs you meet (during class quests) are evil. All the Sith in the movies, all the Sith in the SWTOR trailors...thats over 100 right there.

 

10/1 ratio at best. Probably closer to 20/1 evil to non-evil Sith.

I suppose one would say they are more evil than others but it doesent matter what you are in the game, but the person you are in real life. I'm a good person, although not perfect, but I still have mostly all sith characters and I go all dark side on them. I sometimes even enjoy citeing the sith code but all that stuff doesent reflect on how I act in my life. I just like the dark side better than the light side. Plus you get to look cool if you go darkside. Ever hear the expression bad to the bone?

Yes, the Sith are really evil.

 

The Empire, however, is not. Merely a collective of war-focused peoples.

 

Yep, although the sith don't have to be. Most embrace it, however. The emperor is utterly evil and corrupts those who come into contact with him. Both sides can also make the argument that the other side has committed genocide against them, which complicates things. I tend to think that the force is just the force and that it's individuals who make it good or bad. Imo, both the jedi and the sith are wrong, philosophically, although both philosophies contain elements of truth.

 

The jed'aii were probably closest to getting it right:

 

There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.

There is no fear; there is power.

I am the heart of the Force.

I am the revealing fire of light.

I am the mystery of darkness

In balance with chaos and harmony,

Immortal in the Force.

Edited July 12, 2014 by errant_knight

True, though it starts with "Peace is a lie" so it stands to reason they'd prefer perpetual war.

 

I don't believe that all Sith are evil, especially in this time-line, but at the very least, most seem self-centered and only concerned with their own goals and ambitions. Which would not make them all that different than people we know in real life. I'd say the difference is what they are willing to do to meet there goals -- murder, steal, destroy?

 

well peace really is a lie nature insn't balence its rises and falls and caused by competing forces even if there isn't war that doesn't mean there is true peace or order the universe is built around conflicting forces.

well peace really is a lie nature isn't balance its rises and falls and caused by competing forces even if there isn't war that doesn't mean there is true peace or order the universe is built around conflicting forces.

 

There's nothing intrinsically evil about the sith code and it makes a whole lot more sense at face value than the jedi code, which only became more opaque over time. Given the fact that peace, ism in fact a lie....

Edited July 13, 2014 by errant_knight

Sith are not really evil, however people who are force sensitive and who are already sadistic / mean individuals tend to thrive in that society, the reason there are so many sadistic sith is because it is not shunned or looked down upon, instead inside the sith empire it is glorified, and being sadistic / "evil" is a symbol of power for the individual.

 

But honestly I wouldn't say there are evil or good, Star Wars made it so it would be different shades of gray. I think it is like this: the jedi have good and bad individuals amongst their ranks, the sith also have both good and bad individuals in their ranks.

The jedi tend to try and hide all their emotions as they think emotions are the root of evil (when they look at the emotional sith for example) so they shun emotion.

The sith are very emotional, however they tend to focus only of emotions of hate, passion and thrills. But the sith are also overly emotional, a lot more than a normal individual would be.

 

Because of the above, it is not good to be jedi or sith, mastering what is in between would essentially make you more powerful than both. (They kinda already did that with Revan...?)

 

Also since the sith are so intense when it comes to emotion, wouldn't they also feel love, waaaaay more intensely than a jedi ever could? So a sith could actually, in theory, become a beacon of love. However that is sadly also seen as a sign of weakness in their society.

 

Being evil or not purely depends on the individual sith's need to fit into society. Which is weird because outwards the sith are displayed as rebellious individuals, however they tend to be exactly what the sith society is all about, making them conformists and not actually rebels.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Daxer

The Dark Side has been pretty much shown only to draw upon negative emotions, fear, hate, rage etc , it's even been shown to cut some off from the light side abilities they'd previously had. Exar Kun when he was fatally injured in a Sith tomb couldn't access his healing abilities anymore and was left with no option other then to embrace the dark side or die.

 

The Sith steep themselves in the Dark Side and it consumes them to one degree or another, there is no way that spending years stewing in negative emotions won't warp you. There are some who don't become blood thirsty lunatics like Thrana, take Darth Vowron but even he has more then a touch of paranoia. The LS Sith characters you can play in the game are a extreme, exception to the general rule of the Sith as a group being evil and thus wouldn't be considered Sith by their peers if they knew about it, the same as a Jedi who falls to the DS is no longer considered a Jedi by the order.

Edited July 18, 2014 by DougTbx
spelling

This is exactly why I like the sith, they have the best powers (force choke as my favorite) and they accept passion.

If Star Wars was real I would definetly not pick the Jedi, I`d rather be a light sith.

This is exactly why I like the sith, they have the best powers (force choke as my favorite) and they accept passion.

If Star Wars was real I would definetly not pick the Jedi, I`d rather be a light sith.

This sounds similar to times I've heard people glorifying the Middle Ages, Knights of the Round Table, and all that romantic jazz. Sure, it's great when you're the King. Try being a peasant and see how fun it is.

 

If Star Wars were real, and you were a light side Sith, you would only survive so long as you were the most powerful around. What happens when you get apprenticed to someone like Darth Zhorrid? Or worse? Somehow I think you would find living in the Empire more horrifying than fun.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Khevar

This thread is making me lose faith in humanity.

The empire has the right ideas, take away the sith with corruption, keep the mainstay, take away racism. You have much more effective society than the repub overall. The corrupt factors in the empire can be narrowed down far more easily than those in the republic..why because of the system.