Read and refute both of these articles:

http://mmo-mechanics.com/news.php?article=no-room-in-pvp-for-pve-gear-in-a-1-2-galaxy

http://swtorbattles.blogspot.ca/2012/05/swtors-james-ohlen-shares-formula.html

I am curious to know after reading these 2 articles how pve gear is bis for pvp.

Thoses numbers are old.

Healers is a must to get your belt and bracer PvE for more stats. The healing buff from Expertise get diminishing returns really fast.

DPS wise is different. I was doing more damage with PvE belt and Bracer with my sage DPS instead of the PvP one.

If they're dumb enough to go with PVE gear over PVP gear, they're dumb enough to try to refute the numbers.

Should be interesting.

Thoses numbers are old.

 

Healers is a must to get your belt and bracer PvE for more stats. The healing buff from Expertise get diminishing returns really fast.

 

DPS wise is different. I was doing more damage with PvE belt and Bracer with my sage DPS instead of the PvP one.

where is the DR for expertise then, it was "removed" when 1.2 launched and no changes have been made since. you were doing more damage with PVE gear, but you did not take into account your opponents Expertise. What were their Expertise? that info is needed before you say you did more damage in PVE bracers/belts.

Read and refute both of these articles:

 

http://mmo-mechanics.com/news.php?article=no-room-in-pvp-for-pve-gear-in-a-1-2-galaxy

 

http://swtorbattles.blogspot.ca/2012/05/swtors-james-ohlen-shares-formula.html

 

I am curious to know after reading these 2 articles how pve gear is bis for pvp.

I wear mostly PvP pieces, and use some PvE armorings in my belt and bracers, and power crystals in my weapon / offhand. So, I agree that PvE gear isn't across-the-board best in slot.

That sad, that mmo-mechanics piece is a bad article (besides the fact that it's old and doesn't take into account the new gear). You can't examine the effectiveness of a particular stat (one that the hybrid set has less of by definition) by just saying "Here is the damage / mitigation / healing you lose by wearing the hybrid instead of the full PvP set". You need to compare the expertise sacrificed to the stats gained. For instance, by swapping out my crystals, I gain one power and lose just one expertise - this is almost always the right answer, but is especially correct when building a smash Jug / sweep Guardian.

Also, I believe you're building up a bit of a straw man here - I don't really see anyone claiming that a full PvE set is best for PvP. Most people seem to be trying to trade expertise 1:1 (or close to it) for regular stats when they can, especially when they're further along the expertise diminishing returns curve. That piece only looks at Battlemaster gear, and doesn't even go beyond 1200 (my expertise is over 1200, and like I said, I have PvE armorings in two pieces, and two crystals swapped out).

Those are old numbers.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/44ebf162-4bfe-4cbe-a52c-2393ebb6bebb

Just one of my min/max toons, 1200ish expertise. Hit's 20% harder than using all stock PvP gear.

Pve gear will never be bis in pvp. I did a test on pve gear over recruit gear a full pve gear player is by far better then today's recruit. Mind you i have a full optimized war hero set for tanking. But wanted to see one what people would say and what pve gear does.

I thought i be toast in pve raid gear but i was not, I raped the other team when focus the healer kept me alive when player complained i was in pve gear and they were in full war hero getting raped by the other team. I was the only one in the warzone to get a kill against a LD50 premade on my server in that match. I am a stealth class though so i pick my fight well.

Then i went in a war zone with recruit gear with small hp pools guess what i died like real fast. So this tells me over recruit pve gear is better and over pve gear war hero is better. I have all but 2 peaces of war hero dps set ATM. Will i get my last 2 dps war hero peaces hell yes.

Would i rather have a pve gear person in a war zone then the nub in recruit yes the pve person is more productive then a recruit gear person. Real sad that the lobie pvp gear is not as good as a pve set. With the new changes this may change.

I am not one to say ever that pve gear in pvp is the right thing to do i am saying pve gear is better then the full recruit gear any day. A pve gear person just doing war zone in pve gear as they think it is better some how are dead wrong.

Thoses numbers are old.

 

Healers is a must to get your belt and bracer PvE for more stats. The healing buff from Expertise get diminishing returns really fast.

 

DPS wise is different. I was doing more damage with PvE belt and Bracer with my sage DPS instead of the PvP one.

Yes you do slightly more damage, but you also take more damage.

Getting power crystals instead of expertise is the only good swap because it's 1:1.

Yes you do slightly more damage, but you also take more damage.

 

Getting power crystals instead of expertise is the only good swap because it's 1:1.

I agree with the power crystals swap being good, that makes sense for any class.

I do however have to disagree that it's the only good swap. You could argue that for some classes it's better than others but I haven't see a case with any of my 50s that it didn't increase damage/healing significantly enough to drop the 110 expertise (which is a tiny amount).

My jugg's pvp gear:

My belt + bracer

282 str

192 end

60 exper

78 pwr

Stock belt + bracer

210 str

144 end

140 exper

12 pwr

12 crit

As you can see I gain a substantial increase in str, pwr & end.

Here are the break downs. By using my belt bracer with the pve armorings I...

1. Lose 1.07 damage boost

2. Lose .71 damage reduction

3. Gain 45 force bonus power and substantial gains to melee min/max damage (scales to about a 5% increase on smash damage, much higher than the 1.07% damage boost from exptertise)

4. Gain crit chance

5. My health goes up nearly 800 points.

People ask me how I hit them so hard on my shadow. Power stacking. At a certain point (which I feel is around 1200) it's a no brainer, power > expertise.

Yes you do slightly more damage, but you also take more damage.

 

Getting power crystals instead of expertise is the only good swap because it's 1:1.

HEALER is a must.

All pro healer get PvE Bracer and Belt.

From what I've been told Black Hole > Recruit. And in my experience using both, thats been the case as well. Especially with the campaign armoring setbonus that gives my healer sorcerer 50 extra Force and 1.5 seconds off innervate.

As for War Hero armor, its just too big of an expertise loss to stick to your BH. Thats when you HAVE to upgrade.

Thoses numbers are old.

 

Healers is a must to get your belt and bracer PvE for more stats. The healing buff from Expertise get diminishing returns really fast.

 

DPS wise is different. I was doing more damage with PvE belt and Bracer with my sage DPS instead of the PvP one.

actually no, healing bonus from expertise is basically linear. it just increases at a lower rate

HEALER is a must.

 

All pro healer get PvE Bracer and Belt.

All pro non tank (TANK IN PVP LOL!) get PvE Bracer and Belt.

actually no, healing bonus from expertise is basically linear. it just increases at a lower rate

Do you even know what linear means? If it's rate is not linear, then its rate changes.

Do you even know what linear means? If it's rate is not linear, then its rate changes.

i know what it means

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/attachment.php?aid=282

there ya go. the green line, 1.2 Trauma, represents expertise healing bonus. as you can see from the graph, its almost linear, just like the damage and defense bonuses.

there is no "soft cap" for expertise anymore, except for being limited by the total amount that you can stack (which is 1390 iirc)

I feel like people are ignoring the actual numbers I posted. Not a graph from 1.1-1.2. Current in game numbers straight from the character window.

No. Full expertise is not going to get you the most damage or healing. Will you take more damage with less expertise? Yes.

But as I explain there becomes a tipping point where most classes benefit from replacing 160ish expertise with huge amounts of power, main stat and endurance.

Those are facts, take it or leave it, or post the graph from 1.2 again.

Surprised L-RANDLE hasn't posted here yet. lol

Good to see I'm wanted....

1050-1100 EXP functions as an effective "hard cap" where your output and effective HP is at its peak... When I graphed it out for DPS(Sweep) and it actually was closer to 1050EXP. Key is to carry all PVE armoring equivelents, except your belt and bracer. Then all PvP pieces(implants/relics/ear/mods/enh).

And I am still looking at trauma more closely. My logs don't match my calc'd output and I am still testing another thing that might be:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: , so the question is still out for healers...

I feel like people are ignoring the actual numbers I posted. Not a graph from 1.1-1.2. Current in game numbers straight from the character window.

 

No. Full expertise is not going to get you the most damage or healing. Will you take more damage with less expertise? Yes.

 

But as I explain there becomes a tipping point where most classes benefit from replacing 160ish expertise with huge amounts of power, main stat and endurance.

 

Those are facts, take it or leave it, or post the graph from 1.2 again.

um, you are aware that expertise calculations were changed in 1.2? and that they have been the same ever since? aka the graph i posted is 100% relevant.

imo, it is not smart to trade more than 2 or 3 pieces of gear for non-expertise versions. you can come up with all kinds of graphs that you want for your own stat scaling w/ different combinations of gear. but all of that goes out the window when you go up against someone w/ more expertise than you.

lets say you have 1050 expertise. its ~20% damage bonus, ~17% damage redux. now say you go up against someone w/ 1300 expertise; they have ~25% damage bonus, and ~20% damage redux. the 3-5% damage/heath bonus you are gaining by giving up that expertise is wiped out by the net loss of expertise. you will take ~5% more damage, and you will deal ~5% less damage, ie net loss of 10%. combined, you are losing ~5% overall performance against players stacking that much expertise

and yet no one talks about the opponents expertise and how it effects this equation.

Giggle. Show us your numbers please

um, you are aware that expertise calculations were changed in 1.2? and that they have been the same ever since? aka the graph i posted is 100% relevant.

 

 

imo, it is not smart to trade more than 2 or 3 pieces of gear for non-expertise versions. you can come up with all kinds of graphs that you want for your own stat scaling w/ different combinations of gear. but all of that goes out the window when you go up against someone w/ more expertise than you.

 

lets say you have 1050 expertise. its ~20% damage bonus, ~17% damage redux. now say you go up against someone w/ 1300 expertise; they have ~25% damage bonus, and ~20% damage redux. the 3-5% damage/heath bonus you are gaining by giving up that expertise is wiped out by the net loss of expertise. you will take ~5% more damage, and you will deal ~5% less damage, ie net loss of 10%. combined, you are losing ~5% overall performance against players stacking that much expertise

Yep. You're right, my 7-8k smashes mean I don't know how to min/max. Suppose I should keep stock gear and have 5k ones.

and yet no one talks about the opponents expertise and how it effects this equation.

Yes... In a DPS, race I would win versus you; given the same approximate rolls/attacks & if we both tried to down the same person, I would win that DPS race in a landslide....

Good enough?

Oh and this:

Also, I believe you're building up a bit of a straw man here - I don't really see anyone claiming that a full PvE set is best for PvP. Most people seem to be trying to trade expertise 1:1 (or close to it) for regular stats when they can,

I am just a bit more radical about it cause I actually used AskMrRobot, along with Darth Hater to graph out Sweep output I did a piece my piece plot with Pure PvP versus "Hybrid"... And 1100EXP+ is the cutoff where the exchange of HP for mitigation is not favorable, and the hybrid build also produced a ~1% attack advantage. Small? Yes, but the point, as another person put it to me, is to get every little bit you can....

Giggle. Show us your numbers please

I dont have numbers like you also dont have numbers. no one has posted information other than "i do more damage" when they do not take into account the expertise of the opponent, your 7-8k smashes mean nothing unless you tell us your opponents expertise.

The goal of the thread was finding proof, and no one in this thread and proved their point with evidence.

I am just a bit more radical about it cause I actually used AskMrRobot, along with Darth Hater to graph out Sweep output I did a piece my piece plot with Pure PvP versus "Hybrid"... And 1100EXP+ is the cutoff where the exchange of HP for mitigation is not favorable, and the hybrid build also produced a ~1% attack advantage. Small? Yes, but the point, as another person put it to me, is to get every little bit you can....

what is the damage of your sweep at 1100 exp vs someone at 500 exp, 1000 exp 1200 exp and 1300 exp?

I dont have numbers like you also dont have numbers. no one has posted information other than "i do more damage" when they do not take into account the expertise of the opponent, your 7-8k smashes mean nothing unless you tell us your opponents expertise.

 

The goal of the thread was finding proof, and no one in this thread and proved their point with evidence.

I posted exact numbers below on using just pve armorings in bracer/belt. I showed the damage and HP increase. Along with the tiny loss in damage reduction. What more proof do you need? Log into my account and play my mix max toons?

If people want to continue to play with stock gear that's fine, but posting misleading info on the pvp forums isn't a good thing. The highest dps/healing is not possible with stock pvp gear.