Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Am I the only one that thinks Force Camoflage makes no sense for a Marauder?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Am I the only one that thinks Force Camoflage makes no sense for a Marauder?

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
06.11.2017 , 10:21 AM | #1
As the title suggests, there's just something about Force Camouflage that has always seem to be to be totally not in keeping with what a Marauder is, just a ball of destruction who care's more about killing his enemies than living to a ripe old age.

I don't deny it's value. It's an excellent escape feature potentially. Sometimes it's a time saver so you don't have to fight every last damn mob. Helps with taking damage from elemental factors [Lava, Fire, poison gas ect.].

The thing is even in those regards, at 4 seconds duration, a lot of the time, it's just not long enough to get you far enough away that you won't just end up being seen when those 4 seconds are up.

As a DCD in combat it is virtually useless if you want to be fighting. You cannot use it if your fighting, the second you attack all it's effects are lost, even if you were using it to take less damage from fire .i.e. if you attack anything, it won't continue to reduce the damage from the fire you are taking even though it wasn't the 'fire' you attacked. It's not even a threat drop, it's a threat reduction. If you use it, and than attack, you won't lose agro in most cases, you have to stop attacking after it's use for a second or two ish until you do in fact lose agro which obviuously is a DPS loss. [if sometimes necessary].

It just doesn't seem to have any basis for it's form, even though it's effects can be useful. Why would something that is all about combat, destruction, damage, and striking fear in the hearts of all would dare oppose the will of the mighty Sith Empire, have a sneaky thingy?

My thought is that the effects that we have come to rely on Force Camo for could be manifested in some other manner. Even if it was something as simple as refining it in story form. Like, they are not actually turning invisible, they are using a force power that briefly blinds perhaps by intensifying the light level in a lightsaber to make something akin to the flashbang CC of Operatives, those under it's effects so that the mara can not be seen by them during the duration. Perhaps you can make a separate ability that would help with damage reduction of environmental effects.

Stealth of the sort that literally turns you invisible should be the sole purview of stealth classes. Marauders are frontal, in your face fighters, they revel in combat, the are the purest form of destruction that manifests inside an individual through the power of the Dark Side of the Force. They are the quintessential Warrior.

I just can't reason this sneaky thing.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me on this of course, I recognize that it has always been a part of the class, but there is a precedent where something was removed that didn't really make sense for the class, droid stun. We lost that when 5.0 dropped. It just didn't make sense why a Marauder would have that kind of specialized skill. Difference being thought in that case, we just lost, we were given something else to take it's place, nor am I proposing that Force Camo be removed and nothing take it's place. We need the escape for PVP it would hurt the class considerably with it even more so because we don't have any self heals, so losing the escape to boot would be disastrous for the class. I'm merely proposing a redefining of how it's effects are delivered.

I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of others on the subject, mostly just for curiosity sake.

thepilk's Avatar


thepilk
06.13.2017 , 11:11 AM | #2
It makes sense as an alternative means of approach for targets that you cannot leap to (or a secondary gap closer if leap is on cooldown, especially with the purge effect added)

In PVE it also serves as an agro dump which is a fairly common feature for a pure dps class that has spikey damage surges sometimes.

So, while its a wonky fit thematically, mechanically it fits the dps toolbox well enough to me.
youtube.com/mantapusproductions
CineMoLos.com

AndoEyrune's Avatar


AndoEyrune
06.13.2017 , 12:07 PM | #3
Actually it's an amazing CD in pve, and isn't to be underestimated. It's something to be used when a predictable large hit or knockback/knockdown is incoming. In fact, when used properly in several situations little to no uptime is lost, as you pop camo the moment the hit is going out, and right after start attacking again. Here are a few examples of its use.

Revan HM-HK grenades (to not be knocked over and reduce damage taken); pull in (to stay in melee range of core to increase uptime)

Titan 6- Reduce damage from huge grenade

Brontes NiM-eat an orb at low stacks to get back on the boss quicker

TfB NiM-eat a tentacle slam, increasing uptime

There are many, many more examples, but i can't be bothered to list all of them.

As far as the ability fitting the class, you can argue the warrior users it to take big damage, so he can continue beating down the enemy.
Vendrine <LØS>

"I'm Done"
-Kytera 2016 (RIP)

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
06.14.2017 , 12:52 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by AndoEyrune View Post
Actually it's an amazing CD in pve, and isn't to be underestimated. It's something to be used when a predictable large hit or knockback/knockdown is incoming. In fact, when used properly in several situations little to no uptime is lost, as you pop camo the moment the hit is going out, and right after start attacking again. Here are a few examples of its use.

Revan HM-HK grenades (to not be knocked over and reduce damage taken); pull in (to stay in melee range of core to increase uptime)

Titan 6- Reduce damage from huge grenade

Brontes NiM-eat an orb at low stacks to get back on the boss quicker

TfB NiM-eat a tentacle slam, increasing uptime

There are many, many more examples, but i can't be bothered to list all of them.

As far as the ability fitting the class, you can argue the warrior users it to take big damage, so he can continue beating down the enemy.
My issue isn't at all with it's purpose really, I see the value in it, I just don't find it's design appropriate. There are ways of creating escapes without it being invisibility. IMO it's a completely useless combat DCD [it's works well for environmental damage and the like, cleaves, etc]. You can't use it to mitigate damage if you are going to be fighting.

But it isn't a threat drop, it's a threat reduction. It will not cause you to loose all threat, it will reduce current threat by half. It you pull agro from a Boss and use it, most of the time it's still going to attack you, you have to cease all attacks after you use it until threat is lost, but it isn't instant in most cases. So not a very good threat drop.

I just don't think the manner in which they made it's effects apply is fitting for Marauders, but, that's just my opinion, was just curious how others felt on that score.

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
06.14.2017 , 07:15 AM | #5
The only thing that doesn't make sense about Force Camoflauge is Expunging Camoflauge's "remove all cleansible effects", does not even remotely resemble this description.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
06.14.2017 , 02:53 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Bonzenaattori View Post
The only thing that doesn't make sense about Force Camoflauge is Expunging Camoflauge's "remove all cleansible effects", does not even remotely resemble this description.
Agreed, that makes very little sense and I hadn't even given that aspect to thought in my original post. Good point.

Diplomaticus's Avatar


Diplomaticus
06.16.2017 , 12:07 AM | #7
In theory I agree, but in a game like SWTOR, a melee fighting class like Sentinels and Marauders needs tools that make them more forgiving to play - since even ranged classes have a good amount of defensive utility. So a versatile disengage/reengage tool like FC is needed to make the class enjoyable in a PvP setting.

So in practice, I think FC does what it needs to do really well. Making changing it based on your reasons (which I understand) undesirable.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
06.16.2017 , 01:26 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Diplomaticus View Post
In theory I agree, but in a game like SWTOR, a melee fighting class like Sentinels and Marauders needs tools that make them more forgiving to play - since even ranged classes have a good amount of defensive utility. So a versatile disengage/reengage tool like FC is needed to make the class enjoyable in a PvP setting.

So in practice, I think FC does what it needs to do really well. Making changing it based on your reasons (which I understand) undesirable.
You make a good point. In the scope of things it's no biggie.

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
06.27.2017 , 06:15 AM | #9
I like it the way it is.
Merovejec Merovex Meroveg Merovien Meroven Merovingian
Meroxer Raynarog Ray-narock Raynarock Raynaroc Raynarok
7 days of being a sub, try it! Refferal Link
Achievements before 5.9.2 67040

Beyrahl's Avatar


Beyrahl
07.04.2017 , 03:19 PM | #10
I feel like there's a bit too much RP in this post.
But nonetheless i'm going to of course disagree with you. Force camo works perfectly in so many different situations. While active it's not often that you're worried about dishing out damage, so I don't see what you're coming at about that. Even though i've countless times ended my stealth prematurely due to only using it defensively to soak up damage or just drop target for a brief moment to gain an edge.
From an arena standpoint I don't really like the whole cloak out idea (running away to reset combat), but it's there and a option you should take. But as a whole to fix that, it'd probably require bonking Stealth classes actual stealth outs and I don't think that's okay for balance.

However in comparison just because it's on my mind, current state of sniper and their utilities are kind of nuts. I feel like we'd need a heal on our cloak of pain and a beefed up undying rage that heals to compare to the healing utilities they have, not to mention heal roll, give us mad dash heal with purge. :^]
Don't take that seriously though.