for all the this game is gear vs gear posts.. what happens in a year when you all have wh gear vs wh gear... Is it still gear vs gear?

The current gear system is great, because once you get max war hero gear it REALLY does become about skill against other similarly geared pvpers.

.

This is assuming you want to spend the 250-300 hours needed to get all WH gear and don't mind being thrashed every time you set foot in a rwz until you get mostly all WH gear. I'm just over half way there on 1 toon and am about to give up on that toon because its ridiculous and has become boring. In contrast 1-49 pvp on other toons is great.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Morrolan

This is assuming you want to spend the 250-300 hours needed to get all WH gear and don't mind being thrashed every time you set foot in a rwz until you get mostly all WH gear. I'm just over half was there on 1 toon and am about to give up on that toon because its ridiculous and has become boring. In contrast 1-49 pvp on other toons is great.

 

Same. I grinded my *** off for BM gear, through all the RNG bag bull**** as well. Then WH is implemented and BM is given out for what, 12k WZ comms for a full set I think from what I've heard. I grinded a few pieces of WH and asked myself, "What's the use?" I'll probably end up stating away from vertical progression based MMORPGs for the rest of the time. Unless it's more challenging and less grindy time consuming.

for all the this game is gear vs gear posts.. what happens in a year when you all have wh gear vs wh gear... Is it still gear vs gear?

What about in a year when two more tiers are added, furthering the distance between fresh 50s and old timers?

for all the this game is gear vs gear posts.. what happens in a year when you all have wh gear vs wh gear... Is it still gear vs gear?

 

It's not. But why not make it so every has greens vs greens? Then everyone would always have been on equal footing. Right now not everyone is on equal footing.

 

Your post is invalid.

Let us simplify this entire argument. Many factors go into PvP success. Here's three.

 

1. Gear

2. Skill

3. Class composition

 

Now, in which order should these factor into the outcome.

 

For me.

Skill <- class composition <- gear

Edited August 9, 2012 by Gondi

GW2 is going to be the same, except instead of a gear grind it will be a skill point grind. Maybe you should have opt'ed to play the beta's?

 

Maybe you should have too I guess...

 

you get access to max gear and all skills/traits in sPvP.

 

You might be thinking of WvW, which is group oriented, and yes you are scaled to 80 but don't get extra skills unlocked. Of course you can unlock all your skills in about 15 hours of play. You can unlock enough to fill all your slots doing nothing but PvP for about 10 hours.

 

But in the end, WvW is about numbers and strategy and siege weapons, not gear or 1v1's.

 

But more importantly, competitive PvP and instanced PvP is 100% skill based and nothing else.

Full recruit here. Just hit 50.

 

Was stunned and had my health all but wiped out by an augmented Agent in WH gear with over 20k health.

I wasn't the only recruit geared player this happened to.

 

I'm at slightly above 13k.

With lower expertise, and not enough DPS to really matter once I got out of stun.

The only option was to vanish then run.

 

Before I hit 50 I would mop the floor with so many imps they hated seeing me in the WZ.

Now I'm being hit by 5k crits left and right.

 

You guys are joking with this "armor doesn't matter if your good" spiel.

 

If it doesn't matter then ditch the tiers.

 

- DH

Edited August 9, 2012 by Diet-Hutt

Maybe you should have too I guess...

 

you get access to max gear and all skills/traits in sPvP.

 

You might be thinking of WvW, which is group oriented, and yes you are scaled to 80 but don't get extra skills unlocked. Of course you can unlock all your skills in about 15 hours of play. You can unlock enough to fill all your slots doing nothing but PvP for about 10 hours.

 

You can tell who has really played GW2 beta.

 

- DH

Edited August 9, 2012 by Diet-Hutt

GW2 is going to be the same, except instead of a gear grind it will be a skill point grind. Maybe you should have opt'ed to play the beta's?

 

Dont worry that guy will be around in 6 monhs saying THAT GUYS GOT MORE SKILL POINTS QQQQQQ

OP here, i guess the point im trying to make is that if you removed the expertise from gear. You would still see a massive gear gap in PvE sets.

 

People with full Black Hole gear and Ops gear would have the advantage over the casual players.... thats lets face it.... look foward to the recuirt gear as upgrades in both PvP and PvE

And please, lets all be realistic. There are no prodigies sinking their free time into MMOs. if you are you wrote and desgined the game yourself.

 

Other than that rare case, MMOs are a direct reflection of the amount of time you put into it. Skill can be classified by efficent use of time to maximize profits.

 

The more warzones you play the better gear you will have.

 

The more warzones you play the better you will play against the different types of enemies.

 

the more warzones you play the better you will learn the map and the advantages of each.

 

The more warzones you play the better you are.

So it's okay that skill matters when the gear is the same.

 

You're acting like the WH want to play other WH.

 

1. So why have gear? WH vs WH is the same as recruit vs recruit, the only difference is hard numbering, but they're identical, comparatively.

 

2. Since number one has no rational answer, you might as well have everyone start off with the same gear so that everyone's equal like you're insinuating, but then everyone's ALWAYS equal.

 

You didn't look hard enough for an answer to #1.

 

Gear is put into MMO's to create the "carrot on a stick" reward system to keep players engaged in being rewarded through gaming. People that feel like their being amply rewarded will continue to subscribe and play. Removing the "carrot on a stick" from mmos would require that developers put in a substantial amount of time developing actual content for the game - instead of new tiers of gear - to keep players entertained. As the costs of developing content are generally the most expensive part of development, the first model (COAS) is typically preferred by developers due to it's low overhead.

GW2 is going to be the same, except instead of a gear grind it will be a skill point grind. Maybe you should have opt'ed to play the beta's?

 

You got that wrong. In PvP in GW2 everyone is the same level and has the same gear. What you put your skill points in may matter, but the other guy/girl has the same option to choose what to put their skill points in. So at the end of the day, it's still skill and not gear.

 

But it's pointless fighting this corner in these forums now, because the pro gear players don't want to hear. Because they want to continue to roll all over all the fresh 50s. These are the same people that didn't think there was an issue have 50s in the 10-50 bracket on release. Why? Because it meant they could farm.

You got that wrong. In PvP in GW2 everyone is the same level and has the same gear. What you put your skill points in may matter, but the other guy/girl has the same option to choose what to put their skill points in. So at the end of the day, it's still skill and not gear.

 

But it's pointless fighting this corner in these forums now, because the pro gear players don't want to hear. Because they want to continue to roll all over all the fresh 50s. These are the same people that didn't think there was an issue have 50s in the 10-50 bracket on release. Why? Because it meant they could farm.

 

jealously smells ugly on you.

Bioware could care less about pvp, if they did they wouldnt put up fresh 50s in recruit gear vs full wh people. the only reason we are getting a new wz is because it was already made.

You're probably right.

To me skill is timing a force push in huttball to take out that unkillable ball carrier in the fire pit

Intercepting passes and all that fun stuff

you are right its gear vs gear..

 

Question. What do you call it when its a WH vs WH geared player?

 

Is it still gear vs gear?

Bioware could care less about pvp, if they did they wouldnt put up fresh 50s in recruit gear vs full wh people. the only reason we are getting a new wz is because it was already made.

 

...would you like BW to level your character to 50, too? How about if they run daily quests for you while you're at work/school, so you don't have to do anything to get 500k+ credits per day? Would that mean they 'care' enough?

 

"Caring" about PvP has nothing to do with giving freebies to people who don't want to do anything.

 

I've got my BM gear for my main character when you needed 60+ valor rank, and had to rely on unstable and crappy probability to get a single BM gear piece. Back in those days, people did this thing called "make effort" to try as best as they could to survive that long period of grinding time. They invested credits to buy augmented gear, exchanged modifications as best as one could, to at least become even a teeney bit more competent, so the painstaking process of BM grinding is easier.

 

Compared to that, nowadays you can easily get 2~3 pieces of BM gear every week, and usually under a month, with a few weekends with long play hours, your BM set is finished. Invest a bit of credits to augment that BM gear, and that's actually more powerful than default WH gear -- a little bit weaker than full aug WH gear. The credits are easily earned by running a few daily quest planets, and usually if you do Corellia and Ilum that'll bring in around 150k~200k per day, enough to aug a single piece of equipment every day.

 

So, after you've at least done that much to become better, made that much effort, then come back to us and tell us that "BW doesn't care", because as it is, it seems you care even less about making efforts to become more competitive.

 

All you're doing is sitting under the apple tree with your mouth open, waiting for the fruit to fall to you... and you're blaming the tree doesn't care about you. For Pete's sake, man, listen to yourself.

Skill vs gear? How about auto-aim vs hand/eye coordination? You should have to aim to hit your targets. I feel like skill vs gear is just nitpicking when reflex time and aim aren't involved. PvP would be so sick if your had to aim your cryo grenades and high impact bolts at your targets and a miss would result in a cool down. Sadly, most (all?) mmo communities can't handle skill differentials like those found in CS or Quake. The first MMO that requires FPS skill in addition to knowing how to counter/use abilities will be the perfect competitive gaming platform. Edited August 11, 2012 by PicthShemet

Skill vs gear? How about auto-aim vs hand/eye coordination? You should have to aim to hit your targets. I feel like skill vs gear is just nitpicking when reflex time and aim aren't involved. PvP would be so sick if your had to aim your cryo grenades and high impact bolts at your targets and a miss would result in a cool down. Sadly, most (all?) mmo communities can't handle skill differentials like those found in CS or Quake. The first MMO that requires FPS skill in addition to knowing how to counter/use abilities will be the perfect competitive gaming platform.

 

Then go play a FPS?

Then go play a FPS?

 

I play both. It's just comical that people who willingly play a MMO complain about gear grind and if that gets taken away complain about class balance. If they are so worried about PvP being entirely skill based, with completely balanced classes and gear, why don't they play a FPS? Balance and gear equality is pretty much the definition of competitive FPS games.

I play both. It's just comical that people who willingly play a MMO complain about gear grind and if that gets taken away complain about class balance. If they are so worried about PvP being entirely skill based, with completely balanced classes and gear, why don't they play a FPS? Balance and gear equality is pretty much the definition of competitive FPS games.

 

Really i thought fps are mindless point and shoot not difficult at all and skill is defined by who has the best latency

Also most Modern fps games have a plethora of unlocks available enhancing weapons and armour

Seperating player "skill"

Really i thought fps are mindless point and shoot not difficult at all and skill is defined by who has the best latency

Also most Modern fps games have a plethora of unlocks available enhancing weapons and armour

Seperating player "skill"

 

Haha. If you thought that you will most likely be one of the people that would cry cheat when faced with a skilled player.

I've played an FPS for 11 years. In a 10 minute 1v1 i could most likely keep killing you with the most basic gun without gettng killed by you even once. Even if I had twice or more your ping.

Game physics, gun characteristics, accuracy, knowledge of surroundings, movement and proper configuration. If you know how all that works come talk about FPS's again.

Edited August 11, 2012 by CRNphg