Jump to content

Bubble Truces?


MelliMelon

Recommended Posts

Hey, I was just wondering about ranked on other servers. Do you coordinate with the other ranked leaders to NOT use bubble stuns, or do you simply use them on both sides?

 

Another way of asking is this: do high-end players (ranked), despite the massive QQ in normals, actually enjoy the fact that bubble-spec exist?

 

EDIT: Just to clarify, this is talking about competitive ranked. It's quite different in normal warzones.

Edited by MelliMelon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, I was just wondering about ranked on other servers. Do you coordinate with the other ranked leaders to NOT use bubble stuns, or do you simply use them on both sides?

 

Another way of asking is this: do high-end players (ranked), despite the massive QQ in normals, actually enjoy the fact that bubble-spec exist?

 

"high end players" are cutthroat. they'll do whatever it takes to win. I don't think they like bubble stun. but don't kid yourself. if they're /stuck and need to do it to compete, then they won't be /stuck for long.

 

there is no honor in pvp.

Edited by foxmob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"high end players" are cutthroat. they'll do whatever it takes to win. I don't think they like bubble stun. but don't kid yourself. if they're /stuck and need to do it to compete, then they won't be /stuck for long.

 

there is no honor in pvp.

 

I know what you mean, but if both teams could coordinate to NOT do it, nobody would lose an advantage, and everyone would have more fun, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm under the impression that on The Red Eclipse, there's a gentlemen's agreement about not using focus/rage and bubble spam.

 

IMHO that's not helping at all. If we as players censor ourselves like that, then BW can't use their precious metrics for anything at all. Besides. All the lolsmashers will just run with their precious pyro powertechs/assault VGs instead, and they roll double scoundrel/operative heals instead of bringing the bubblespammer.

 

In practice they regress to earlier metagame instead of playing the **** out of the current FoTM, making BW get the wrong metrics.

 

The fact that alot of the ranked guilds roll 3x smash +1 bubblepopper in normals (for the lulz/or to have a bit of fun) does nothing except make pugging and normals a hellish experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know what you mean, but if both teams could coordinate to NOT do it, nobody would lose an advantage, and everyone would have more fun, right?

 

Nope, because as I wrote above, the ranked guilds will mess up the metrics by abiding by some random ruleset that aparently doesn't apply to themselves in normals where they pugstump relentlessly.

 

Having a bubble/smash "truce" in ranked is stupid at best. And a concerted effort to skew the numbers at worst.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know what you mean, but if both teams could coordinate to NOT do it, nobody would lose an advantage, and everyone would have more fun, right?

 

Well. Everyone except the sorc/sage, who would join the list of ACs/Specs not required in top RWZs.

Edited by Jherad
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well. Everyone except the sorc/sage, who would join the list of ACs/Specs not required in top RWZs.

 

dps guards/jugs would be out as well since vig/veng was screwed when focus/rage was buffed. Assuming we are talking no bubble stun and no smash.

Edited by Asunasan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So it's stupid because you want BW to have accurate metrics? They have already mentioned they know about how ridiculous it is. They just change things slowly.

 

Did they ever use the word ridiculous? Last word was they think class balance is basically ok.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IAll the lolsmashers will just run with their precious pyro powertechs/assault VGs instead, .

 

excuse me, sir, but pyro pt is single target and took a significant nerf that makes them sitting ducks for all ranged. they're not out of balance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

excuse me, sir, but pyro pt is single target and took a significant nerf that makes them sitting ducks for all ranged. they're not out of balance.

 

What ranged? The only ranged DPS in most RWZs are engi snipers, and they're only there for the plasma probe (which is like calling a landmine 'ranged').

Edited by Jherad
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What ranged? The only ranged DPS in most RWZs are engi snipers, and they're only there for the plasma probe (which is like calling a landmine 'ranged').

 

all 3 sniper specs are viable. and a pyro merc can chew up a pt now that they've nerfed the stun, incendiary and plastique range. madness should never face a melee head on in the first place, but since they're ranged and the pt has no cleanse, dot him. run away. watch him die helplessly.

 

but oh, you want ranked wz. uh. ok. just the sniper. what's your point? smashers are multi-target melee. pt are single target melee with better range but nothing to deal with the only ranged units they'll see in rated. but enough of that. how, exactly, are PTs *still* op?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

all 3 sniper specs are viable.

 

But strangely, only 1 is wanted. Heh.

 

I'm not going to say PT is OP, that's someone else's words - but the argument that their counter is 'ranged' is hilarious when RWZs are virtually melee DPS only.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But strangely, only 1 is wanted. Heh.

 

I'm not going to say PT is OP, that's someone else's words - but the argument that their counter is 'ranged' is hilarious when RWZs are virtually melee DPS only.

 

please. all of the ranged classes have specs to deal with PTs, assassins can take them down. a good watchman or combat.

 

their "counter"? they're not fail (ala tracer spam) in terms of defense. and they have very good offense. but in no way are they unkillable. and yes, range can - now - out range them. I don't get it. you wanna hold the lack of range against something a pt has?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

excuse me, sir, but pyro pt is single target and took a significant nerf that makes them sitting ducks for all ranged. they're not out of balance.

 

Never said they were OP. Just saying that regressing to a previous iteration of the metagame "to keep things fair"

 

Bad news for the sorcs/sages that have a place in the current metagame

Bad news for guardians (although truly good/geared ones still rock in Vigi and def/vigi hybrids)

 

They MAY bring a sorc/sage just in case the enemy doesn't abide by their "rules" so they can retaliate in kind (Yeah, the rules aren't that set in stone) So there may be a few sorcs/sages who get ranked playtime.

Guardians and sents can always respec to smash if needed.

 

So it's stupid because you want BW to have accurate metrics? They have already mentioned they know about how ridiculous it is. They just change things slowly.

 

The changes made in 1.4 have shifted the metagame, regressing it will provide BW with metrics that won't reflect reality (in ranked) The agreement is null and void for the same guilds in normal wzs of course.

 

I have fun in pvp, but I won't spec away from my most useful ability just because some people hate it.

So I encourage any and all ranked communities to play the specs they find most useful, we may end up with better class balance if BW get the right metrics.

Edited by DaedalusV
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quite the opposite, I want people to play the **** out all the fotm. Personally, I LOVE it when my 40s rage mara gets leapt to by 5 other warriors -- it just tells me this **** won't last much longer and it will be more fun to play my other classes in the 50s. People need to play whatever is available in ranked, it's part of the game... if the game is unbalanced BW needs to get on it.

 

And it is insane what rage can do when played by a player who knows the ins and outs of SWTOR. I'll start collecting screenshots so I can make a post with examples in a couple of days. I have about half a dozen games a day where PTs and snipers of equal or higher level and gear do about 100-150k damage while I pull off 350-400k in rage in the same time. And no I'm not twinked, I wear blues of current level to no more than 4 levels below me, bolstered health sits in mid 13k, meaning I upgrade to new blues at levels 29, 33, 37, 41 and so on...

 

On the other hand, if it doesn't get nerfed -- I have a new main. :)

 

Bubble stun? Meh, it was annoying on my deception assassin at first but it really is too easy to burst through and take out the sorc. They will still present no problems to good teams that already used granades on CD to quick focus targets. If they do change the bubble stun to sorc/sage only then it needs to go back to a mezz, but a long one, six to eight seconds. Sort of like, you attack that sorc you get Roared/Awed for 6 seconds for 600 resolve.

Edited by Monterone
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm under the impression that on The Red Eclipse, there's a gentlemen's agreement about not using focus/rage and bubble spam.

 

IMHO that's not helping at all. If we as players censor ourselves like that, then BW can't use their precious metrics for anything at all. Besides. All the lolsmashers will just run with their precious pyro powertechs/assault VGs instead, and they roll double scoundrel/operative heals instead of bringing the bubblespammer.

 

In practice they regress to earlier metagame instead of playing the **** out of the current FoTM, making BW get the wrong metrics.

 

The fact that alot of the ranked guilds roll 3x smash +1 bubblepopper in normals (for the lulz/or to have a bit of fun) does nothing except make pugging and normals a hellish experience.

 

Nah we do it because it makes the games more interesting. To hell with metrics.

 

Secondly I'm playing sage as balance and doing fine in ranked, mainly because people aren't running multiple smashers. If you don't like the agreement, that's fine but guilds are queuing for ranked and enjoying pvp, more classes are getting a shot at ranked because there's less people running retarded specs.

 

Not gonna play boring games while we wait for bioware to balance out fotm smashers and bubble stun. Can't believe people are actually moaning about it tbh.

Edited by PloGreen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The changes made in 1.4 have shifted the metagame, regressing it will provide BW with metrics that won't reflect reality (in ranked) The agreement is null and void for the same guilds in normal wzs of course.

 

I have fun in pvp, but I won't spec away from my most useful ability just because some people hate it.

So I encourage any and all ranked communities to play the specs they find most useful, we may end up with better class balance if BW get the right metrics.

 

Oh ok. Ty for the clarification.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope, because as I wrote above, the ranked guilds will mess up the metrics by abiding by some random ruleset that aparently doesn't apply to themselves in normals where they pugstump relentlessly.

 

Having a bubble/smash "truce" in ranked is stupid at best. And a concerted effort to skew the numbers at worst.

 

Think you are reading way too much into this. A concerted effort to skew the numbers? Really? Maybe people are just sick of smash and want other teams to field different specs.

 

People run smash and bubble in normals because you can't stop other people running smash and bubble in normals.. So get your "metrics" from them. More people play normals than ranked so obviously you can't get a whole server to not run fotm and op specs.

 

Still play balance though, even in normals. But I don't want to force anyone to do anything it's just an agreement in ranked to get more people playing since bioware have done nothing about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Think you are reading way too much into this. A concerted effort to skew the numbers? Really? Maybe people are just sick of smash and want other teams to field different specs.

 

People run smash and bubble in normals because you can't stop other people running smash and bubble in normals.. So get your "metrics" from them. More people play normals than ranked so obviously you can't get a whole server to not run fotm and op specs.

 

Still play balance though, even in normals. But I don't want to force anyone to do anything it's just an agreement in ranked to get more people playing since bioware have done nothing about it.

 

Meh, as I wrote: At best it's stupid. At WORST it's a concerted effort to skew numbers (I'm not reading too much into anything as I make room for any reasoning/excuse in between)

 

People play to win. If the ranked guild meets opposition that use bubblepop and smash, they will respec if in danger of loosing. You playing balance in rankeds without smash is kinda a moot point since you'll respec the instant you meet a group using bubblepops (and your team is in danger of loosing)

 

If cross server was here, season 1 had started, would you gimp yourselves then?

 

Play the **** out of the OP specs, let them see how the game really plays in the upper echelons (without gimping yourselves) and give SW:TOR a chance to actually get balanced pvp eventually (with frequent small class changes to keep things interesting)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have arrangements like this on the Red Eclipse as was stated - no bubble pop and no stacking of smash.

 

People can say what they like about it. The simple fact is that before this agreement there were 2 teams queueing daily and virtually no occasional teams. 3 months or so down the line, there are 4 daily teams, 5-6 occasional teams, several irregular teams and three of the daily teams have 2nd teams.

 

In every single case, the 'new' teams have credited their entry into ranked and enjoyment of it to this arrangement.

 

We set out to increase ranked activity and it has, quite clearly, been far more successful than any of Bioware's incentives.

 

As for messing with the metrics, that's just silly. Not least because we know from e-mail exchanges with the administrator of our unofficial boards that BW Devs follow our discussions. This agreement and ranked in general is, by a considerable distance, the most discussed topic on those boards.

 

As for what will happen when X-server comes....well....you don't really expect that to actually come do you?

Edited by DaveyboyW
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have arrangements like this on the Red Eclipse as was stated - no bubble pop and no stacking of smash.

 

People can say what they like about it. The simple fact is that before this agreement there were 2 teams queueing daily and virtually no occasional teams. 3 months or so down the line, there are 4 daily teams, 5-6 occasional teams, several irregular teams and three of the daily teams have 2nd teams.

 

In every single case, the 'new' teams have credited their entry into ranked and enjoyment of it to this arrangement.

 

We set out to increase ranked activity and it has, quite clearly, been far more successful than any of Bioware's incentives.

 

As for messing with the metrics, that's just silly. Not least because we know from e-mail exchanges with the administrator of our unofficial boards that BW Devs follow our discussions. This agreement and ranked in general is, by a considerable distance, the most discussed topic on those boards.

 

As for what will happen when X-server comes....well....you don't really expect that to actually come do you?

 

This is really good to hear/see. Thanks for the response!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have arrangements like this on the Red Eclipse as was stated - no bubble pop and no stacking of smash.

 

People can say what they like about it. The simple fact is that before this agreement there were 2 teams queueing daily and virtually no occasional teams. 3 months or so down the line, there are 4 daily teams, 5-6 occasional teams, several irregular teams and three of the daily teams have 2nd teams.

 

In every single case, the 'new' teams have credited their entry into ranked and enjoyment of it to this arrangement.

 

We set out to increase ranked activity and it has, quite clearly, been far more successful than any of Bioware's incentives.

 

As for messing with the metrics, that's just silly. Not least because we know from e-mail exchanges with the administrator of our unofficial boards that BW Devs follow our discussions. This agreement and ranked in general is, by a considerable distance, the most discussed topic on those boards.

 

As for what will happen when X-server comes....well....you don't really expect that to actually come do you?

 

This.

 

Results on the server prove the effectiveness that a self balancing community is far more effective than the games own Developers, that either have not got the resources/time/inclination orknowledge to effectively control the game in the right areas.

 

Smash has been talked about, argued over, and slated since 1.4 hit giving the spec its most effective buff when it actually didnt really require it in the fashion it was given. There have been countless community discussions on how to fix it, not only on these boards, where despite the troll posts there are plenty of sensible one's discussing balance issues, but on server community run boards and other forums. What has been Bioware's input in any of these discussions? Nothing, nada, nowt, zip, diddly squat. They dont interact with their community what so ever. This is their biggest problem as far as many people are concerned.

 

As for their precious Metrics, if they havent seen a big enough increase in Focus/Rage specs in 3 or whatever months it is now to make them question the effect its changes had on the game then they should quit their day job.

 

As a counter argument to metrics, if they are so important, why has there been nothing done to strengthen the class that is considered the only undesirable one in ranked, Mercenary/Commando. Surely, the best part of a years worth of data has given them something to prove that this class needs help. Wait, what am I saying, it did get help, it got an interupt....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

please. all of the ranged classes have specs to deal with PTs, assassins can take them down. a good watchman or combat.

 

their "counter"? they're not fail (ala tracer spam) in terms of defense. and they have very good offense. but in no way are they unkillable. and yes, range can - now - out range them. I don't get it. you wanna hold the lack of range against something a pt has?

 

Yes. All those mercs chewing up PTs left right and center. LOL. It's not like PTs can do more total damage AND burst, right? Hah. :D

 

The point I want to make is that this thread and many other like it (including nerf PT and nerf smash threads) are symptomatic of a wider problem. Sure, bubblestuns are out of control. And if you take that away, you take away the only spec anyone wants from sorcs/sages in RWZs. Why?

 

Because *melee* is out of control in this game, at least at the top end in competitive teams. Range doesn't get a look-in. Someone finds a semi effective counter to melee and it gets jumped all over and abused. Why the heck would people want a dps sorc, or a merc, or a sharpshooter slinger when they can bring another PT, assassin or smashtard instead?

 

So sure, nerf bubblestun. It probably needs it. But unless you fix the underlying issue of range vs melee you're just swapping problems.

Edited by Jherad
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...