Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Normalise level 50 PVP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Normalise level 50 PVP

Thornsbane's Avatar


Thornsbane
07.23.2012 , 09:21 PM | #11
I have just started an alt and at lvl13 I feel that I cannot compete in WZ's! It is BS!

Even with the averaging out of levels I still dont have all the abilities and powers that all the higher lvl players have earnt so I cannot effectively compete on a completely equal level with these people who have put in more time than me.

I agree and even think that in lvl 1-49 pvp ALL skill and abilities and gear should be given to all players so that lvl 10 people are just as good as lvl 49.

Sinemetu's Avatar


Sinemetu
07.23.2012 , 10:06 PM | #12
You know, I've inspected a fair number of people in WZ's, and I'm not seeing this claim of "everyone is in aug WH gear" being even remotely true. There are often one or two people on a team with mostly WH. The bulk of the group is in some mix of BM/recruit/WH, and then there's a few in recruit, give or take. Mostly I see people at 1500-1700 hp and a little under 1200 resilience.

I'm not saying normalizing stats in some way is a bad idea, mind you, but I am saying that the prevalence of WH gear is exaggerated by most people here on the forums.
Legion: Geth do not infiltrate.
C-Sec Customs: You should leave your personal synthetic assistant at home. They're not allowed on shuttles anymore.
Legion: Geth do not intentionally infiltrate.

RobNightfall's Avatar


RobNightfall
07.23.2012 , 10:48 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Erasimus View Post
I disagree. Gear is not the primary issue except for those people that think it is "ok" to queue at level 50 with 0 expertise, won't buy gear, cash the free gear in for money, then think it is cool to queue with 0 expertise.

BM Gear is easy to get, fully augmented BM gear is very close to WH gear and since you can remove the augments relatively cheaply there is no reason to not to augment BM gear. Heck I augment my Recruit gear on my new 50s and do fine.

Without gear progression it is just another, dumbed down version. of an FPS with worse combat mechanics.
Well, since "they" paid their money like everybody else, it is fine to que up at 50 with no expertise. It's their game too, and elitists on both the PvE and PvP side of any game tend to ruin the game for a lot of people. Sorry, but there it is. Normalizing the gear, or even creating stratified warzones that measure expertise levels and only let people that fall in a certain category in is a good idea.
Edited because the devs appear to have fixed at least 80% of the crap that was pissing me off.

Yndras's Avatar


Yndras
07.23.2012 , 10:56 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Erasimus View Post
The problem is that some classes are just easier to play and do reasonably well. This has as much to do with class imbalance as anything, in my opinion. Most want their class to be "easy" to play.

The only way I'd see the OPs suggestion working would be if/when they have cross realm ranked queues and allow solo queuing for ranked. But to do that they'd need to enforce a minimum gear requirement. If that were to happen I'd be willing to bet the "normal" PuG level 50 PvP would be deserted.
Solo queing is already coming. And i dont agree with the warzones being deserted outside of ranked. People will get gear, solo queue for ranked, get destroyed without top gear and then decide to go back to the normal WZ to gear. Its what is happening now.

The only difference is that the ranked people waiting for a ranked queue to pop are joining the normal warzones and thumping people. Mainly because most people are still gearing, and in some cases when its a full team you go against the organisation is better.

There is a difference between losing to a good team, and losing to a better geared team. A good team beats you by strategically taking your team apart. A better geared team beats you by killing you before you have a chance to fight.
Layda, Sentinel - Hoarus, Scoundrel
Bandeeto, Mercenary

Yndras's Avatar


Yndras
07.23.2012 , 11:02 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Thornsbane View Post
I have just started an alt and at lvl13 I feel that I cannot compete in WZ's! It is BS!

Even with the averaging out of levels I still dont have all the abilities and powers that all the higher lvl players have earnt so I cannot effectively compete on a completely equal level with these people who have put in more time than me.

I agree and even think that in lvl 1-49 pvp ALL skill and abilities and gear should be given to all players so that lvl 10 people are just as good as lvl 49.

I see what you are trying to say, but the time invested in your gear and character for pvp is still recognised in the ranked warzones and your e-peen can be satisfied there. The below should be the design around PVP.

Ranked warzones = Nightmare/Hard Ops
Normal warzones = story mode ops.
Open world PVP = anything goes.

Normal warzones need to be normalised so that people can enjoy a fun, casual, and relatively balanced pvp experience. A good player will beat you regardless of gear or class mechanics.

its called skill.
Layda, Sentinel - Hoarus, Scoundrel
Bandeeto, Mercenary

Jalal's Avatar


Jalal
07.23.2012 , 11:58 PM | #16
Love this idea!

They should move away from the WOW end game pvp model where once you get behind on gear your screwed.

Thornsbane's Avatar


Thornsbane
07.24.2012 , 12:15 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Yndras View Post
I see what you are trying to say, but the time invested in your gear and character for pvp is still recognised in the ranked warzones and your e-peen can be satisfied there. The below should be the design around PVP.

Ranked warzones = Nightmare/Hard Ops
Normal warzones = story mode ops.
Open world PVP = anything goes.

Normal warzones need to be normalised so that people can enjoy a fun, casual, and relatively balanced pvp experience. A good player will beat you regardless of gear or class mechanics.

its called skill.
Fair enough, the thing though is that a big part of the satisfaction of a win is that it brings you closer to a reward/gear. Gear that will make you that little bit better once you have it.

Take away the usefulness of the reward and you take away all of that reward satisfaction.

So this could work if it was a separate type of warzone where you get no rewards or valor, but play purely for the fun and skill and never have to deal with the hardships of some people being better geared than them.
Then those who are willing to play in a game and succeed against less than favorable odds can actually get rewarded for it.

The thing is though, when I go in WZ's, which I do every night, I never see these teams full of WH geared players. I see lots of recruits, and mostly BM. Its quite unusal to see a full WH player.....

SneiK's Avatar


SneiK
07.24.2012 , 05:45 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Thornsbane View Post
Fair enough, the thing though is that a big part of the satisfaction of a win is that it brings you closer to a reward/gear. Gear that will make you that little bit better once you have it.

The thing is though, when I go in WZ's, which I do every night, I never see these teams full of WH geared players. I see lots of recruits, and mostly BM. Its quite unusal to see a full WH player.....
It will still make you feel better as you get to queue rated.

I run NWZ while my guild takes time off RWZ, and there's always 1-2 full WH in my team (+me ofc). Usually, the team with most WH guys wins = not fun.

Like I said, BM is far from WH. If you recall, most BM gear had wrong stats that were fixed for WH (PT BM Tank gets accuracy, WH absorption -> BM tank useless compared to WH, even without the stat size difference)

So, don't even get me started about Recruit. '3 shot' was just a figure of speak, they die fast and miserably. I can burst over 12k dmg in 3 seconds agaist recruits, and finish off with a 4k -> Player thinks he was 3 shotted.

And as the rated queue dies, 'cause people can't gear up, you will see even more WH doing NWZ, killing the PvP even further.

BW,please consider this. You want people levelling alts, but gearing sucks so bad people can't even do it the first time (new players)..

Jalal's Avatar


Jalal
07.24.2012 , 10:32 AM | #19
Keep this thread alive!

kitsinni's Avatar


kitsinni
07.24.2012 , 10:42 AM | #20
Valor ratings do not equal gear if you got them before 1.2. I know people in the 80's without a piece of War Hero gear because they did PvP early then quit PvP since 1.2.

IMO if you want a normalized PvP you bought the wrong game, the entire business model of these games is to get you to keep grinding for that next piece of gear. I think if you couldn't get better gear than the other guys 90% of the PvP players wouldn't even bother.

These games boil down to two things, and really two things only at end game:

PvE Get Gear set A to be able to do Instance B, Get gear set B to do instance C, Get gear set C to do instance D .. repeat until maxed then you "optimize" or "min max" your gear until xpac then replace it with greens

PvP Get Gear set A to be able to compete with people in gear B, get gear set B so you can compete with people in gear set C get gear set C until maxed then you "optimize" or "min max" your gear until next xpac then replace it all
Okin