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Give Consulars the option to use the old Project animation---and make ourselves worse

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Give Consulars the option to use the old Project animation---and make ourselves worse

RowanThursday's Avatar


RowanThursday
04.06.2020 , 05:07 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Phazonfreak View Post
That's exactly it, that you were able to dodge the damage and effect which was supposed to be instant compared to the inquisitor's shock. How is this not a bug?
Again, if the Cartel Market contained:

"Ability: Force Bombard: 500 Cartel Coins: <Ability Description> : This ability shares a cooldown with Project, and is not available for use in Warzones"

How would that inconvenience anyone?

The dev time spent would be recouped by Cartel revenue, which would benefit all of us. Of course it's useless to some players, but very welcome to some, and worse than useless to none.

Indeed, to make it more cost effective still, I'd actually go further. Ever since the game began, there have been grumbles that dark siders ought to have project, as Vader iconically uses it ( of course, he was mostly Jedi trained, so nvm...), and its notable that Knights get to use similar telekinesis in cut scenes (
Spoiler
).

So, make it a pack, available to all Force classes, to provide a suitable ability replacement for all classes - Project for Consular, Shock for Inquisitor, something else (an interrupt probably) for Knight and Warrior. Same "not in warzone" caveat applies across the board, equivalent damage to the "standard" ability it's replacing, and shared cooldown.

"How did you finish off Thanaton, Darth Nox? Did you use your unparalleled knowledge of the Dark Side?"

"It was actually pretty simple. I hit him in the face with an old droid, then used my Legacy ability to kick him in the goolies."

No balance issues to eat dev time, art and animation assets already in game, most damage and cooldown stats already coded, and a popular request that would net money from a reasonable player base and fund the game, as well as giving more variety to the market beyond "Yet another reskinned shirt".
It manages to provide something that will materially affect a player's gameplay experience for the better, without being at all Pay To Win.

If it sold well, do another pack for tech classes with something similarly iconic but impractical removed from them.
"... Pointless meatbag bickering."
-- HK-55

Phazonfreak's Avatar


Phazonfreak
04.06.2020 , 05:34 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by RowanThursday View Post
Again, if the Cartel Market contained:

"Ability: Force Bombard: 500 Cartel Coins: <Ability Description> : This ability shares a cooldown with Project, and is not available for use in Warzones"

How would that inconvenience anyone?
I was just pointing out that it was indeed a critical bug, which was put into question in that post.

Your suggestion would not inconvenience anyone and I like the idea. I never said I am against adding cosmetic abilities with different animations or even that they put it on the CM for a price if it is automatically deactivated for the competitive scene. I am just wondering if that really would be a worthwhile endeavor and good time and resources spent by the devs. And whether it might lead to even more complaints that greedy EA now even starts to add combat abilites to the CM.

Cotlu-Hunlon's Avatar


Cotlu-Hunlon
04.06.2020 , 06:01 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Phazonfreak View Post
I was just pointing out that it was indeed a critical bug, which was put into question in that post.

Your suggestion would not inconvenience anyone and I like the idea. I never said I am against adding cosmetic abilities with different animations or even that they put it on the CM for a price if it is automatically deactivated for the competitive scene. I am just wondering if that really would be a worthwhile endeavor and good time and resources spent by the devs. And whether it might lead to even more complaints that greedy EA now even starts to add combat abilites to the CM.
I mean, I wouldn't even mind using it in Warzones, I literally don't care if it's slower, I'm here to have fun and there's other ways of interrupting a node cap for example than Project. Anyone who takes it super seriously, they could just keep using the newer one. If I went into ranked, yes I'd use the new one.

I agree it's tenuous adding abilitties to CM, for why you've said - at least it could be if they have a new name like that. It's why I think the toggle option is better because then it's sold clearly as a cosmetic adjustment to something that exists, and is not so much of a possible scapegoat. Cartel Market should be cosmetic/QoL to the core, but obviously, as suggested, would make a good route to deliver this kind of content down. I'd have no problem dropping some CC on it, and that way it would make only the people who really wanted it back have it, and maybe avoid masses going back to it.

The Nostalgia Thread - Come live in December 2011 with me

Cotlu-Hunlon's Avatar


Cotlu-Hunlon
04.06.2020 , 06:07 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Phazonfreak View Post
That's exactly it, that you were able to dodge the damage and effect which was supposed to be instant compared to the inquisitor's shock. How is this not a bug?
I would say it's not a bug because there are lots of abilities you can either prepare for, nullify or avoid by early recognition, and it rewards skill and paying attention. Even at the most basic level, you can see a Sage casting Turbulence and interrupt or LoS or stun etc, a Sniper Ambush wacks a giant targeting icon on your body, giving you a cue and recognition and time, you can look at a Powertech's energy lode stacks and guess when to use your cooldown once they reach 4 stacks, and you can see a Scoundrel's Blood Boiler droid floating around you giving you lots of time to counter it.
PvP is partly built on recognition and counter-play, and it adds layers. I have no problem with someone carefully watching my ability animation and within 1.5 seconds making a counter to it. Yes, you couldn't do that to Inquisitors which was the problem. But the delay wasn't really the problem in my eyes, it was the notion of an unfair delay between factions

The Nostalgia Thread - Come live in December 2011 with me

RowanThursday's Avatar


RowanThursday
04.06.2020 , 08:33 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Phazonfreak View Post
And whether it might lead to even more complaints that greedy EA now even starts to add combat abilites to the CM.
This is a point of note, sure, though in balance, I'll speculate that the age of the game is now such that nostalgia for "vanilla" is beginning to be a valid motivator. We're not, obviously, at the age for a parallel "SWTOR Classic" yet, to indulge the feeling of "putting right what balance changes sent wrong", but, in a smaller scale, features like this, and publicity for them, might actually bolster the game in some measure.
"... Pointless meatbag bickering."
-- HK-55

Cotlu-Hunlon's Avatar


Cotlu-Hunlon
04.06.2020 , 05:20 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by RowanThursday View Post
This is a point of note, sure, though in balance, I'll speculate that the age of the game is now such that nostalgia for "vanilla" is beginning to be a valid motivator. We're not, obviously, at the age for a parallel "SWTOR Classic" yet, to indulge the feeling of "putting right what balance changes sent wrong", but, in a smaller scale, features like this, and publicity for them, might actually bolster the game in some measure.
I like this idea, we're approaching a point as to be quite departed from the game at launch we started with, yet also still close enough to not warrant any kind of "Classic / Old School" iteration (nor is there the demand or the playerbase size for that). Objectively, things are better now - but as you say there's certainly room to channel a bit more of the game a lot of us fell in love with.

The Nostalgia Thread - Come live in December 2011 with me

OrmEmber's Avatar


OrmEmber
04.06.2020 , 06:00 PM | #37
Why are you so entitled? They changed a thing. Deal with it. So many, many things have changed over the years. That's just how things go. "Oh but i liked this more" And? People have been whining about skill changes for years.

You think if it was easy they wouldn't do it?! You see everytime they change things they break them, right?

The code aint simple or all the bugs would be fixed. They don't fix em because they would break 10 other things.
Free things for you and I
Force Telekinesis is great for stealing pizza

Cotlu-Hunlon's Avatar


Cotlu-Hunlon
04.06.2020 , 06:13 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by OrmEmber View Post
Why are you so entitled? They changed a thing. Deal with it. So many, many things have changed over the years. That's just how things go. "Oh but i liked this more" And? People have been whining about skill changes for years.

You think if it was easy they wouldn't do it?! You see everytime they change things they break them, right?

The code aint simple or all the bugs would be fixed. They don't fix em because they would break 10 other things.
Hah. Thanks.

Yes lots of things changed, lots of them changed for the better, some not so much. This one made me (and at least enough others that some are in this thread) not play the Sage at all. That's quite large for us. Maybe try and understand that part of other people's enjoyment of this game comes more from some areas (combat feel, spectacle and visuals) than perhaps as it does for you.

I'm not here in their development department telling them about their code, and I'm not going to pretend to know about this game's coding details - I'm a consumer/customer/player unhappy with something about their product which I have every chance to make a case for, which is why they have forums and customer service.

The Nostalgia Thread - Come live in December 2011 with me

RowanThursday's Avatar


RowanThursday
04.07.2020 , 01:52 AM | #39
By no stretch of the imagination is it "entitled" to express the wish that something were available, to note that if it were, we'd buy or use it, or to speculate upon the best way of doing so.

Once more, with clarity; nobody has asked for PvP to be removed from the game in order to facilitate the availability of more varied animations.

Assuming that the fear expressed in a recent post is genuine, then, honestly it seems to equate to: "No, don't you dare voice support for a new feature which is of no interest to me; it's selfish of you because Bioware might listen and risk breaking my preferred content", which is neither edifying nor accurate.

Any new content risks breaking existing elements, as you've noted. So, should we say "No new content at all"? If not, then we've every bit as much right and validity in expressing a constructive interest in the things that interest us, as you or anyone else does.
"... Pointless meatbag bickering."
-- HK-55

Cotlu-Hunlon's Avatar


Cotlu-Hunlon
04.07.2020 , 02:47 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by RowanThursday View Post
By no stretch of the imagination is it "entitled" to express the wish that something were available, to note that if it were, we'd buy or use it, or to speculate upon the best way of doing so.

Once more, with clarity; nobody has asked for PvP to be removed from the game in order to facilitate the availability of more varied animations.

Assuming that the fear expressed in a recent post is genuine, then, honestly it seems to equate to: "No, don't you dare voice support for a new feature which is of no interest to me; it's selfish of you because Bioware might listen and risk breaking my preferred content", which is neither edifying nor accurate.

Any new content risks breaking existing elements, as you've noted. So, should we say "No new content at all"? If not, then we've every bit as much right and validity in expressing a constructive interest in the things that interest us, as you or anyone else does.
Thank you for the support on this thread Rowan

I don't know what to do from here - just hope the devs visit the forums? How does something get made aware to them these days?

The Nostalgia Thread - Come live in December 2011 with me