First off, once a world is having the choice to join the Republic, it seemingly can never go back, i may not be well read about everything surrounding the Republic but it seems that when movements like the Separatists leaves the Republic they go to war for that :/

It's like if some state of America (as an example) tries to leave America union of states and that particular state is overwealmed by the other ones to forcefully take it back, just a thought.

If the Republic cannot accept entire star systems own choice to leave their union and ends up bringing them back through war it just proves that the Republic is a hypocratic dictatorship, claiming others are violent but uses violence themselves to bring back the sheep in line again, and that it also doesn't stand for any true democrazy(can true democracy really exist?).

Just loud thinking perhaps, again i dont claim to know everything star wars related or all events surrounding it but it seems at first that the republic starts a war to bring back the planets into line by force once the negotiations ends, am i wrong? :/

First off, once a world is having the choice to join the Republic, it seemingly can never go back, i may not be well read about everything surrounding the Republic but it seems that when movements like the Separatists leaves the Republic they go to war for that :/

Ignoring some of the other points to ask a serious question here:

Do you have any evidence to suggest that the Separatists don't initiate hostilities each and every time they're shown to break off from the Republic? Because I'd love to see it.

On Ord Mantell, it's very heavily implied that the Separatists started shooting first, and made no distinction between people that didn't want anything to do with the whole matter and Republic loyalists, and also further ignored distinctions between combatants and non-combatants (as they had dedicated sniper teams taking out refugees from their assaults on other locations). The Republic soldiers stationed there are no princes in any sense of the term, nor are they exactly noble, but they didn't start the civil war on their planet. They were forced into it by people that were outright demanding everyone else to forsake the Republic or die.

During the Clone Wars, the Trade Federation and it's members broke off from the Republic only after starting a number of operations to oppress other Republic sovereign states (notably Naboo), and immediately after doing so declared open war on the Republic with their armies.

That's 0 and 2 for the Republic starting the firefight. That's also 2 and 0 for the Republic only sending troops to locations in defense of people that it's stated it will protect.

"You know what, we are going to secede and take half of your money, a large portion of your armed forces and a signification fraction of your entire industry, but because you are democratically elected, there is nothing you can do about it. Cheerio!"

Would work out so much better. Ever heard of the American Civil War?

Or better yet..

"We are going to secede, but before we do, we are going to kill all of your soldiers nearby, and blast apart your space ships. You can't do anything about it, because you are a democracy. Peace out N00Bi3z."

First off, once a world is having the choice to join the Republic, it seemingly can never go back, i may not be well read about everything surrounding the Republic but it seems that when movements like the Separatists leaves the Republic they go to war for that :/

 

It's like if some state of America (as an example) tries to leave America union of states and that particular state is overwealmed by the other ones to forcefully take it back, just a thought.

 

If the Republic cannot accept entire star systems own choice to leave their union and ends up bringing them back through war it just proves that the Republic is a hypocratic dictatorship, claiming others are violent but uses violence themselves to bring back the sheep in line again, and that it also doesn't stand for any true democrazy(can true democracy really exist?).

 

Just loud thinking perhaps, again i dont claim to know everything star wars related or all events surrounding it but it seems at first that the republic starts a war to bring back the planets into line by force once the negotiations ends, am i wrong? :/

In the Republic's defense, the situation was rigged by Sidious to turn into all out war, with both sides set to appear guilty at perpetuating it as part of the plan. As for the second paragraph... That's pretty much exactly what happened? <_<

First off, once a world is having the choice to join the Republic, it seemingly can never go back, i may not be well read about everything surrounding the Republic but it seems that when movements like the Separatists leaves the Republic they go to war for that :/

 

It's like if some state of America (as an example) tries to leave America union of states and that particular state is overwealmed by the other ones to forcefully take it back, just a thought.

 

If the Republic cannot accept entire star systems own choice to leave their union and ends up bringing them back through war it just proves that the Republic is a hypocratic dictatorship, claiming others are violent but uses violence themselves to bring back the sheep in line again, and that it also doesn't stand for any true democrazy(can true democracy really exist?).

 

Just loud thinking perhaps, again i dont claim to know everything star wars related or all events surrounding it but it seems at first that the republic starts a war to bring back the planets into line by force once the negotiations ends, am i wrong? :/

First off, once a State is having the choice to join the United States, it seemingly can never go back, i may not be well read about US History but it seems that when movements like the Confederacy leaves the United States they go to war for that :/

If the United States cannot accept entire state's own choice to leave their union and ends up bringing them back through war it just proves that the United States is a hypocratic dictatorship, claiming others are violent but uses violence themselves to bring back the sheep in line again, and that it also doesn't stand for any true democrazy(can true democracy really exist?).

Just loud thinking perhaps, again i dont claim to know everything United States related or all events surrounding it but it seems at first that the United States starts a war to bring back the Confederacy into line by force once the negotiations ends, am i wrong? :/

Fun fact: The Confederacy started the American Civil War, as well, by attacking Fort Sumter.

They seceeded on March, 1861 and launched the first battle of the war in April.

Not a great case example there, bro!

To be fair, it COULD be considered execution of enemy spies.

The long and the short of it is neither the Old Republic nor the Sith Empire are as good or as bad as they're painted, respectively.

I don't think you know what that word means. You probably went to government run schools which is OK just don't believe what they tell you about government the same way you don't believe what PR rep says about their company.

A dictator can allow as much freedom as he likes. A democracy can be totalitarian and can enforce it with an iron fist.

I agree with you in principle. Strongly. It's just that while you appear to have a strong sense of individual liberty, you lack words and are bogged down by false understanding.

Violent oppressors is a better phrase for this situation. The Republic are violent oppressors, they rule others against their will and kill those who resist. Democracies and republics are totally capable of doing that.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that the Separatists don't initiate hostilities each and every time they're shown to break off from the Republic? Because I'd love to see it.

Do you have evidence that they do?

My character "smuggler" has made it clear he likes to kill the seperatists for no other reason than it is bad to be a "seperatist".

Violent oppressors is a better phrase for this situation. The Republic are violent oppressors, they rule others against their will and kill those who resist.

Ignoring the eye-rolling ramble, prove it. Show one instance of the Republic shooting first in Star Wars. They're generally more likely to be shot at in all instances. This was even true in the Empire stage (the Rebels broke off from the Empire/former Republic and shot first).

I haven't heard any supporting evidence that actually works.

Do you have evidence that they do?

 

My character "smuggler" has made it clear he likes to kill the seperatists for no other reason than it is bad to be a "seperatist".

I gave the two more likely examples (Ord Mantell: The separatists shot first; Clone Wars: The separatists oppressed other Republic states first, then broke off and shot first). That's two cases in support of my argument, where's yours?

eh the empire has no redeeming points their sith masters torture and kill their own civilians at random if you did the quest in the sith capitol for that civilian he talks about bored sith randomly hunting people for sports

the republic is flawed but the separatists movement is not right they are just as bad as the empire infact there are ample evidence to suggest that the so called “revolution” is merely sponsored front for the empire

the Rebellion had a righteous cause the fall of the Jedi caused so much death and suffering in its wake entire worlds fell to the cruelty of the new galactic empire who's people was to say mildly depraved the Sith are a blight on the universe their very presence is a Unbalance in the force as long as the the dark side exist to corrupt everything there will never be balance in the force the dark side is not natural its a sign of imbalance Vader was suppose to bring balance to the force by wiping out the dark side

Ignoring the eye-rolling ramble, prove it. Show one instance of the Republic shooting first in Star Wars. They're generally more likely to be shot at in all instances. This was even true in the Empire stage (the Rebels broke off from the Empire/former Republic and shot first).

 

I haven't heard any supporting evidence that actually works.

Me.... I require evidence that they DID do something awful before I go killing them. The assumption that it's ok to kill folk until they are proven inoccent sounds a lot like a violent oppressor to me.

I gave the two more likely examples (Ord Mantell: The separatists shot first; Clone Wars: The separatists oppressed other Republic states first, then broke off and shot first). That's two cases in support of my argument, where's yours?

The Seperatists are not a person.

It's not OK to kill me for what some other guy that thinks similar things did.

Me.... I require evidence that they DID do something awful before I go killing them. The assumption that it's ok to kill folk until they are proven inoccent sounds a lot like a violent oppressor to me.

Uh, opening fire on Republic settlements and planets isn't something 'awful' enough to start a war off? Well, alright then.

Or blockading a planet for no real rhyme or reason other then extortion, and then staging a ground invasion of it (all before the Trade Federation broke away from the Republic).

If you're just going to ignore it, I don't think this discussion is likely to go anywhere. :/

the Rebellion had a righteous cause the fall of the Jedi caused so much death and suffering in its wake entire worlds fell to the cruelty of the new galactic empire

ummm.. That doesn't happen for another 3k years

I cannont speak for either the united state's or the republic(both new and old)

What i can say is that people who pull out of united goverments(lets take the un eu or usa) general cause more harm(for both there people and the people they left behind)

As for the 3 named example's:

If a state would leave the united state's of amarica(punt inteded) it would weaken the united state's of amarica as a nation.

And we all know that the usa is the least democratic nation of all democratic nations in the world(or do i need to remind you that you only got 2 polictal parties who disagree with eatchother on princebol)

They would have to force the state back into the fold or risk the death of the united state's of amarica.

Second in star wars 2:the clone wars.

Count dooku made it very clear that they wanted to blackmail the republic with there massive droid armies.

Third and perhaps most important:

Traitors diserve only death.

That said the galatic republic doesnt force worlds to join or stay but they will defend themself.

More often then not those who leave the republic do so with force of arms.

And this is agains the republic's core believe's.

A flashpoints show's that when a corrupt leader force's the planet to succed in order to avoid punishment the republic intervene to save the people(iraq/afganastan anyone?)

ummm.. That doesn't happen for another 3k years

the new galactic empire and the sith empire are pretty similar as bioware seems to have copy pasted the prequel movies into this game the "official" sith empire symbol looks nothing like this nor did the Republic use the Bird nor was there "clone troopers" in this era yet we got commandos that look identical to clone troopers in Armour design its like they took several different eras and mashed it all together and though well ... now this is an awesome game

just to appeal to the masses … also if you follow some of this class story lines there just as bad as the galactic empire using Super Weapons to destroy whole planets …

I cannont speak for either the united state's or the republic(both new and old)

What i can say is that people who pull out of united goverments(lets take the un eu or usa) general cause more harm(for both there people and the people they left behind)

 

As for the 3 named example's:

If a state would leave the united state's of amarica(punt inteded) it would weaken the united state's of amarica as a nation.

 

And we all know that the usa is the least democratic nation of all democratic nations in the world(or do i need to remind you that you only got 2 polictal parties who disagree with eatchother on princebol)

 

They would have to force the state back into the fold or risk the death of the united state's of amarica.

Irrelevant as the Union was not who started the hostilities in the American Civil War. While the Union refused to recognize the Confederacy as a sovreign nation, they were certainly happy to let them be silly until they were done having their tantrum. They were even in diplomatic talks to handle the situation as they felt the situation dictated.

Fort Sumter was even going to surrender as per Confederate demands, but because the Confederate commander in charge didn't like the conditions on the statement of surrender ("We're leaving in three days unless we get orders not to, or supplies prohibiting us from doing so."), they opened fire. They had full opportunity and desire to leverage diplomatic channels, and they declined to do so. Not anyone's fault but their own.

Second in star wars 2:the clone wars.

Count dooku made it very clear that they wanted to blackmail the republic with there massive droid armies.

Irrelevant, as the Trade Federation had already been invading Republic territory before they broke off to form the Separatists in that era, and they continued to do so afterwards (most specifically in a dedicated push to control Naboo, whereas before they were more then happy just to assassinate the queen to get what they wanted). Again, the Separatists initiated hostilities.

Third and perhaps most important:

Traitors diserve only death.

That said the galatic republic doesnt force worlds to join or stay but they will defend themself.

More often then not those who leave the republic do so with force of arms.

And this is agains the republic's core believe's.

A flashpoints show's that when a corrupt leader force's the planet to succed in order to avoid punishment the republic intervene to save the people(iraq/afganastan anyone?)

You may have some serious issues that undermine your arguments. The point is that neither the Union nor the Republic opened fire first - they reacted to other people firing on what was, at the time, their territory and it escalated into a civil war in both instances. It was entirely justified in both cases. What were they supposed to do, let their soldiers and citizens get shot up?

Similar problems lead to World War II. Germany was allowed to take more and more territory without any repercussions, and even in that instance, it lead to an explosion of armed conflict. However, Germany did initiate the hostilities by invading other countries (and rather aggressively).

OP's argument is poor.

Irrelevant as the Union was not who started the hostilities in the American Civil War. While the Union refused to recognize the Confederacy as a sovreign nation, they were certainly happy to let them be silly until they were done having their tantrum. They were even in diplomatic talks to handle the situation as they felt the situation dictated.

 

Fort Sumter was even going to surrender as per Confederate demands, but because the Confederate commander in charge didn't like the conditions on the statement of surrender ("We're leaving in three days unless we get orders not to, or supplies prohibiting us from doing so."), they opened fire. They had full opportunity and desire to leverage diplomatic channels, and they declined to do so. Not anyone's fault but their own.

 

 

 

Irrelevant, as the Trade Federation had already been invading Republic territory before they broke off to form the Separatists in that era, and they continued to do so afterwards (most specifically in a dedicated push to control Naboo, whereas before they were more then happy just to assassinate the queen to get what they wanted). Again, the Separatists initiated hostilities.

 

 

 

You may have some serious issues that undermine your arguments. The point is that neither the Union nor the Republic opened fire first - they reacted to other people firing on what was, at the time, their territory and it escalated into a civil war in both instances. It was entirely justified in both cases. What were they supposed to do, let their soldiers and citizens get shot up?

 

Similar problems lead to World War II. Germany was allowed to take more and more territory without any repercussions, and even in that instance, it lead to an explosion of armed conflict. However, Germany did initiate the hostilities by invading other countries (and rather aggressively).

 

OP's argument is poor.

I wasnt talking about past events so why are you?

To clarify i got nothing agains the usa(execpt its incomptend leadership but i dont live there so it isnt my problem)

I am merely pointing out that people breaking away from a unifed goverment do (in most cases) more harm then help peacefull or otherwise.

Also why are you attack my quete on dooku's statement the seperatist where formed long after the trade fediration's attack on naboo.

Back then the trade fediration acted on its own(or sidous) acord and thus it wasnt a separtist attack.

And lastly the republic is like the europian union they need eatchother or they will die alone.

I wasnt talking about past events so why are you?

 

To clarify i got nothing agains the usa(execpt its incomptend leadership but i dont live there so it isnt my problem)

 

I am merely pointing out that people breaking away from a unifed goverment do (in most cases) more harm then help peacefull or otherwise.

 

Also why are you attack my quete on dooku's statement the seperatist where formed long after the trade fediration's attack on naboo.

Back then the trade fediration acted on its own(or sidous) acord and thus it wasnt a separtist attack.

 

And lastly the republic is like the europian union they need eatchother or they will die alone.

I was about to comment on that, but I'll leave that off these forums. xD

Suffice to say the Trade Federation did launch it's attacks by Sidious' command, but they were also a major force in the seperatist army after it was formed, launching attacks on Republic Senators (Amidala). Under command from Sidious or not, they did draw the Jedi into conflict by aggressive actions. <_<

The Republic is more like the USA, where they have a number of somewhat autonomous states under a single federal government, they elect their overall leadership, and you can become a state in it either by being a sovereign nation and voting to join it and being approved (Texas, Vermont), being forcibly annexed (Hawaii) or by being a territory and being approved to become a state (Alaska). Just like the Republic. So the Clone Wars pretty much equals the American Civil War, where the Confederacy (both of them) opened fire on the Union/Republic first, and started the war themselves. As such, it was fully within the nation's right to react as they did, by your logic.

Even if they didn't attack, it would have been a-okay to march soldiers in there to retake control hopefully without bloodshed, but after the first shots were fired, all bets were off.

I wasnt talking about past events so why are you?

Which ones do you mean in particular? It's (and I mean this in the most polite fashion possible here) hard to follow your post with the grammatical/spelling errors. :/ Germany was brought up as a case example, and it was hard to tell in the first quoted section just what you meant exactly (and thus lead to assumption on my part). If it was an error in judgment on my part, then I humbly apologize.

I am merely pointing out that people breaking away from a unifed goverment do (in most cases) more harm then help peacefull or otherwise.

Which still isn't exactly what the problem here when claiming that the Republic is an oppressive, hypocritical dictatorship that does nothing but shoot at anyone that breaks away from them. They have far better reasons (self-defense) for shooting at the people that have chosen to leave the Republic, there's nothing exactly oppressive about how they handle situations on the broad scale.

Also why are you attack my quete on dooku's statement the seperatist where formed long after the trade fediration's attack on naboo.

Back then the trade fediration acted on its own(or sidous) acord and thus it wasnt a separtist attack.

Timeline flub on my part - however, the Trade Federation was already no longer a part of the Republic when it made it's full ground-assault on Naboo itself.

And lastly the republic is like the europian union they need eatchother or they will die alone.

Again, that's not even the point, and a poor excuse for starting a war.