Battle Meditation:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_meditation

The whole point of this class was to "make allies more effective and bewilder enemies", so not having this is a big "shame on you Devs". Presense works in PvE, so we need some form of it in PvP...

Maybe the Cons/Inquiz should get this and top tier talents be tied to them for the Sage/Sorc AC and the shared tree...

I suggest this:

1. Add a it as a baseline talent to the Con/Inquiz class. Maybe a +15% ally heal output & 15% enemy damage debuff(but nerfs, your own healing/damage output), 3 min CD, 30sec duration, 100 Force.

2. Add a top tier talent to the Sage/Sorc healing tree to increase Healing percentage portion.

3. Add a top tier talent to the Sage/Sorc TK/Lite tree to increase Damage percentage portion.

4. Add a top tier talent to the Sage/Sorc & Shadow/Sin BAL/MAD to increase duration.

I know Hutt Cartel is coming, but Sage/Sorc, especially Sage/Sorc DPS, and the BAL/MAD trees for both AC's could use some love now...

Thoughts?

Definitely an interesting idea.... but like I've said before... the more complicated it is the more likely they are to break something else... or like 5 other things.

Personally now that I've played a sorc in 50 PvP, I still think survivability is fine and burst is where they hurt. A simple fix I think would be to make shock capable of 4K crits on initial hit and an additional 2k if spec'd into it. Not sure how that would play into lightning tree since I've primarily played madness but it would give sorcs comparable burst to PT's, snipers and marauders.

Definitely an interesting idea.... but like I've said before... the more complicated it is the more likely they are to break something else... or like 5 other things.

 

Personally now that I've played a sorc in 50 PvP, I still think survivability is fine and burst is where they hurt. A simple fix I think would be to make shock capable of 4K crits on initial hit and an additional 2k if spec'd into it. Not sure how that would play into lightning tree since I've primarily played madness but it would give sorcs comparable burst to PT's, snipers and marauders.

Well I am kinda piggy-backing off another thread where Sage/Sorc were asking for stealth... This would not be game breaking, because the percents are too small, even if they had a top tier modifier.

but it also could help burst. I said debuff your own output, but maybe have a smaller "self buff" say 5%/5%.

I just want something in line with the lore that would "help Allies" in PvP. There is no other way to affect group output, and heals has a input(LOL) buff.

Battle Meditation:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_meditation

 

The whole point of this class was to "make allies more effective and bewilder enemies", so not having this is a big "shame on you Devs". Presense works in PvE, so we need some form of it in PvP...

 

Maybe the Sorc/Sage AC should get this and top tier talents be tied to them...

 

I suggest this:

 

1. Add a it as a baseline talent to the Sage/Sorc AC. Maybe a +15% ally heal output & 15% enemy damage debuff(but nerfs, your own healing/damage output), 3 min CD, 30sec duration, 100 Force.

 

2. Add a top tier talent to the healing tree to increase Healing percentage portion.

 

3. Add a top tier talent to the TK/Lite tree to increase Damage percentage portion.

 

4. 2. Add a top tier talent to the BAL/MAD to increase duration.

 

 

 

I know Hutt Cartel is coming, but Sage/Sorc, especially DPS could use some love now...

 

Thoughts?

I don't even know why you wrote 'Iquiz/Cons' for the title as this is obviously directed towards Sorcs/Sages. No mention of Sins/Shadows from what I see.

I don't even know why you wrote 'Iquiz/Cons' for the title as this is obviously directed towards Sorcs/Sages. No mention of Sins/Shadows from what I see.

I started thinking about it and still undecided on our tank spec DPS cousins..... I didn't change the title before I posted....

Technically they should have access as well, just no modifiers on their skill trees because they are "not Masters of the Force"

I don't even know why you wrote 'Iquiz/Cons' for the title as this is obviously directed towards Sorcs/Sages. No mention of Sins/Shadows from what I see.

Fixed...

I started thinking about it and still undecided on our tank spec DPS cousins..... I didn't change the title before I posted....

 

Technically they should have access as well, just no modifiers on their skill trees because they are "not Masters of the Force"

Well the fact that we can turn completely invisible would sorta show we have knowledge of the force.

Well I am kinda piggy-backing off another thread where Sage/Sorc were asking for stealth... This would not be game breaking, because the percents are too small, even if they had a top tier modifier.

While I can't agree or disagree... would be hard to say what it would really do to the game unless tested. I just simply go for simple. They would surely break something if they tried to implement this.

And I didn't even open the other thread when I read the title... just reading the nonsense in the title made it very clear that the thread was more infraction points waiting to happen.

Well the fact that we can turn completely invisible would sorta show we have knowledge of the force.

Yeah, that's why Balance/Mad Tree shared modifier would suffice, as long as it is top tier. I don't know many Shad/Sins full speccing that tree...

And I didn't even open the other thread when I read the title... just reading the nonsense in the title made it very clear that the thread was more infraction points waiting to happen.

Did it almost hook you?

 

Did it almost hook you?

I can't lie... I came close.

I can't lie... I came close.

One dude said Juggys can avoid roots better than a Sage/Sorc...

That was my hook....

Buff sages/sorcs, its fine but dont touch to us assassins/shadows, we are fine atm. I know some ******* call us OP because we have a lot of viable specs and they are unable to make a difference between them so they give us a uber 31/31/31 build when those idiots talk about sin/shadow.

I love when people say sins can crit for 7k,pull, root,snare, cloak,guard,taunt,have a lower cd on force speed,have the best cap stopper AoE, can heal with force lightning...yeah...I wish I could spec into 31/31/31 too lol

On topic,

I've never played a sage or a sorc but I'd like to see a buff for them. I think they need more mobility in lightning/tele and maybe an extra 4-5k hitting ability for madness. It would give them a nice burst 4k death field+ 4.5k new move is more than enough for a DoT heavy build imo.

Right now I enjoy killing those Lightning/telekinetic players. Its easy to kill them with 85%+ hp left even if my mouse's right click is a bit broken (it affect the camera and my movement and its super annoying lol)

P.S any know if its possible to turn make left click work like right click and make right like left? That would be awesome lol

Buff sages/sorcs, its fine but dont touch to us assassins/shadows, we are fine atm. I know some ******* call us OP because we have a lot of viable specs and they are unable to make a difference between them so they give us a uber 31/31/31 build when those idiots talk about sin/shadow.

 

I love when people say sins can crit for 7k,pull, root,snare, cloak,guard,taunt,have a lower cd on force speed,have the best cap stopper AoE, can heal with force lightning...yeah...I wish I could spec into 31/31/31 too lol

 

On topic,

 

I've never played a sage or a sorc but I'd like to see a buff for them. I think they need more mobility in lightning/tele and maybe an extra 4-5k hitting ability for madness. It would give them a nice burst 4k death field+ 4.5k new move is more than enough for a DoT heavy build imo.

 

Right now I enjoy killing those Lightning/telekinetic players. Its easy to kill them with 85%+ hp left even if my mouse's right click is a bit broken (it affect the camera and my movement and its super annoying lol)

 

P.S any know if its possible to turn make left click work like right click and make right like left? That would be awesome lol

You think BAL/MAD Shad/Sins are ok? I mean I think Sins are ok for the most part as well. Maybe move a few tankie things higher up in that tree, but..

Meh? They could add that and nerf something else like your 100% force damage redux (saying this tongue-in cheek, but being a soft counter to your alt AC is a bit ricockulous don't you think)?

Battle Meditation:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_meditation

 

The whole point of this class was to "make allies more effective and bewilder enemies", so not having this is a big "shame on you Devs". Presense works in PvE, so we need some form of it in PvP...

 

Maybe the Cons/Inquiz should get this and top tier talents be tied to them for the Sage/Sorc AC and the shared tree...

 

I suggest this:

 

1. Add a it as a baseline talent to the Con/Inquiz class. Maybe a +15% ally heal output & 15% enemy damage debuff(but nerfs, your own healing/damage output), 3 min CD, 30sec duration, 100 Force.

 

2. Add a top tier talent to the Sage/Sorc healing tree to increase Healing percentage portion.

 

3. Add a top tier talent to the Sage/Sorc TK/Lite tree to increase Damage percentage portion.

 

4. 2. Add a top tier talent to the Sage/Sorc & Shadow/Sin BAL/MAD to increase duration.

 

 

 

I know Hutt Cartel is coming, but Sage/Sorc, especially Sage/Sorc DPS, and the BAL/MAD trees for both AC's could use some love now...

 

Thoughts?

The problem with party-wide buffs is that they're really hard to balance and that they can make stacking a certain AC desirable over any other. I personally still don't get it why Sentinels/Marauders' Inspiration and Trascendence (and their Imp versions) affect the entire party instead of just the user.

Bioware would not possibly be able to implement such a feature without breaking everything else along the way. They messed up plenty of smaller things before.

Asking for stealth is about the dumbest thing I've heard so far!

Same thing in every Sorc/Sage thread:

Whaaaa buff plox!

We can't go toe-to-toe with the smashmonkeys!

We don't look good on the scoreboard!

Can you support your team?

Yes - heals, off-heals if dps, force bubble, cleanse, pulls, great cc, knockback

Can you win warzones?

Yes - huttball was made for you and Force Speed is very useful in all other warzones.

Stop whining and L2P - and I play a dps sorc AND sage!

The problem with party-wide buffs is that they're really hard to balance and that they can make stacking a certain AC desirable over any other. I personally still don't get it why Sentinels/Marauders' Inspiration and Trascendence (and their Imp versions) affect the entire party instead of just the user.

 

Bioware would not possibly be able to implement such a feature without breaking everything else along the way. They messed up plenty of smaller things before.

I know, but I mean things like "Pure DPS" having AoE debuff/buff exists. For this class not to have one is very questionable. You could always make it unstackable thereby nullifying class stacking (AoE taunt for smash juggs comes to mind). Also limiting percentages are feasible as well.

Asking for stealth is about the dumbest thing I've heard so far!

 

Same thing in every Sorc/Sage thread:

Whaaaa buff plox!

We can't go toe-to-toe with the smashmonkeys!

We don't look good on the scoreboard!

 

Can you support your team?

Yes - heals, off-heals if dps, force bubble, cleanse, pulls, great cc, knockback

 

Can you win warzones?

Yes - huttball was made for you and Force Speed is very useful in all other warzones.

 

Stop whining and L2P - and I play a dps sorc AND sage!

This isn't a whine thread.... Mearly an observation of something missing from what class lore dictates and solving a UP issues with the class.

Also just about every other class has similar support talents that you listed, but don't suffer from survivability and DPS output issues. I would gladly trade my subpar Force Mend "off heal" for something like this. I think this class is the only one classified as "support" by the masses..

Clearly someone either wasn't around for 1.1.x or is completely ignorant.

Asking for stealth is about the dumbest thing I've heard so far!

 

Same thing in every Sorc/Sage thread:

Whaaaa buff plox!

The DPS trees need a buff. If a DPS sorcerer is not acceptable in a optimal rated composition then it is underpowered.

The last patch (1.5) hurt DPS Sorcerers with a close range stun and frontal aoe-knockback, but buffed the healing tree.

We can't go toe-to-toe with the smashmonkeys!

They aren't even an issue for my smash-monkies. My Rage/Unstoppable Juggernaught smashes them with ease. My Marauder can ravage them for 8K+ HP, scream them for 4K+ HP, Smash them for 5K+ HP, or hit them with a 4.4K annihilate (I play all 3 spec's).

We don't look good on the scoreboard!

The reason sorcerers got nerfed in 1.2 was because ignorant people didn't understand that sorcerers ONLY LOOK GOOD on the scoreboard. People didn't understand that sorcerers were dotting everyone up with affliction, and using their aoe skills as much as possible. Sorcerers would post 400K-500K+ damage consistently with 100K+ healing. They called Sorcerers overpowered because they looked TOO GOOD on the scoreboard.

Can you support your team?

Yes - heals, off-heals if dps, force bubble, cleanse, pulls, great cc, knockback

 

Can you win warzones?

Yes - huttball was made for you and Force Speed is very useful in all other warzones.

I like how you list everything but DPS. Yes you can support your team as a healer sorcerer. But in 3 of 4 warzones, damage trumps the support ability of the sorcerer. The sorcerer is highly ineffective at guarding nodes. The sorcerer is highly ineffective at taking nodes in comparison to other classes. If you hold a DPS role, DPS is what matters, not support. If your a healer then support is an acceptable role.

Huttball is the only warzone where DPS sorcerers are remotely acceptable as replacements for a marauder, powertech, sniper or DPS tank assassin.

Stop whining and L2P - and I play a dps sorc AND sage!

I play:

• Sorcerer (Madness, Bubblestun-healer)
  
• Marauder (Annihilation, Carnage, Rage)
  
• Juggernaught (Immortal, Rage, Unstoppable-rage)
  
• Operative (Healer)
  
• Mercenary (Healer, Arsenal)
  
• Powertech (Pyro, Advanced Prototype)
  
• Assassin (Deception, Darkness, Hybrid)
  
• Sniper (Engineer)
  

I can tell you in comparison to the other classes (all of which are level 50 optimized War-Hero), Sorcerer DPS is severely underpowered in terms of efficiency (same goes with the Mercenary). On any other class, if there is anything less than 2 healers healing my target, they'll be dead in less than 30 seconds.

Clearly someone either wasn't around for 1.1.x or is completely ignorant.

I've been here since launch and I play just as many different classes as you.

So, lets forget about the epeen, shall we?

At launch, everyone and their dog rolled sorcs because they absolutely dominated Huttball, which was the ONLY warzone that would pop regularly. And that's why they got nerfed, btw.

Now we have 4 other warzones which pop just as often, but are not made exclusively for Sorc/Sages.

Hence, they whine and ask for buffs instead of adapting to a different play style.

I like how you list everything but DPS.

In objective warzones, DPS is the least important. You could (theoretically) win without firing a single shot.

You wouldn't get an argument from me if SWTOR's warzones would be deathmatches, for that Sorc/Sages are underpowered.

They aren't even an issue for my smash-monkies. My Rage/Unstoppable Juggernaught

smashes them with ease. My Marauder can ravage them for 8K+ HP, scream them for 4K+ HP, Smash them for 5K+ HP, or hit them with a 4.4K annihilate (I play all 3 spec's).

So what you are saying is that unless Sorcs DPS output matches that of a smashmonkey, they don't qualify as DPS?

Which is my whole point - Sorcs whine because they can't match the smashmonkeys!

The sorcerer is highly ineffective at guarding nodes.

Now that's just ignorant. You don't defend a node with DPS, you defend it by delaying the cap as long as possible for help to arrive. With all the utility, Sorcs excel at that! Only a stealther would be better at it.

If you hold a DPS role, DPS is what matters, not support. If your a healer then support is an acceptable role.

Ok, so only healers support? DPS is not supposed to do that?

I bet your teammates love you when you tell them that!

I can tell you in comparison to the other classes (all of which are level 50 optimized War-Hero), Sorcerer DPS is severely underpowered in terms of efficiency (same goes with the Mercenary). On any other class, if there is anything less than 2 healers healing my target, they'll be dead in less than 30 seconds.

My DPS Sorc and DPS Sage can kill any sniper with ease - you can't?

Food for thought:

Name a warzone that was made for DPS Mercs.

Name a class that DPS Mercs can kill as easy as a Sorc can kill a sniper.

If Mercs are asking for a buff it is legitimate, Sorcs just whine.

 

Food for thought:

Name a warzone that was made for DPS Mercs.

Name a class that DPS Mercs can kill as easy as a Sorc can kill a sniper.

 

If Mercs are asking for a buff it is legitimate, Sorcs just whine.

You could ask the same exact questions, except insert DPS Sage/Sorc to it. In this form of objective based PvP staying alive matters, burst matters, therefore DPS does matter. Otherwise DPS would never outpace healing...

DPS Sage/Sorc always had/has issues. There were a ton of them initially because of the epic scoreboard numbers that they hybrid spec produced, and they got nerfed because people were jealous or thought medal counts (which directly translated into comms at the time)were skewed in their favor, again because of epic scoreboard numbers. Sage/Sorc has NEVER had single target burst the likes of which other classes have. The issue then was opposition needed to L2P because if you actually sit there and let them freecast this class can still hit epic scoreboard numbers, but what if you, pressure them? The entire scenario of when they are "fine" is gone out the window.

Also trying to tout their utility in HB is ROFL. Are they more favorable than a Merc? The real question is who isn't. If you think being the second to last pick on the HB team mean they are fine and we are "whining" then ok... but

I would take a Mara because they could actually burst down a ball carrier, leaps, trancendence. I'll take a Sin of just about any spec, Sniper to cover mid, healers & Juggs for obvious reasons. It's not preferable to take a DPS Sage in HB, and in the others your "utility" is not "leet" compared to the other classes, it's about the same. I provide more support in the others as a Hybrid Tank spec Jugg and my DPS is better... That **** ain't right...

Its stupid to compare this class to another UP class, and this isn't a complain thread as I stated earlier. I would glady eat a self-DPS nerf (even though it aint warranted)for this talent. If you don't like the idea then say it, and leave it at that.. This isn't a commentary on whether Sage/Sorc is viable in its current form...

Interesting... fits nicely with lore too. I'd keep my guy sage toon though, Bastila was an obnoxious brat.

Thanks for the shotz bro... I think Austin was looking for a suitible replacement to Bubble stun and you can play with the percentages if it is too much or too little...

WIN!!!

The problem with party-wide buffs is that they're really hard to balance and that they can make stacking a certain AC desirable over any other. I personally still don't get it why Sentinels/Marauders' Inspiration and Trascendence (and their Imp versions) affect the entire party instead of just the user.

 

Bioware would not possibly be able to implement such a feature without breaking everything else along the way. They messed up plenty of smaller things before.

A) Inspiration only affects your "group" (meaning your side of the ops, max 4 players) and only if they are in-range (30 meters I think)

B) Transcendence only affects in-range members (30m?)

And they affect as many groupmembers as they do because they are party-utility abilities.

The dots are the problem, too easy to cleanse. they should make crushing darkness and creeping terror unable to be cleansed, that way you have an incentive to go full madness rather than the stun bubble hybrid. Lightning is a PVE spec. Oh and sorcs could use some love in the force management area.

No.

1. DoTs are not a problem because all classes don't have a cleanse.

2. Force Management? Yes, for Bal/Mad, no for Hybrids(either), no for Seer/Corr, and the only time Bal/Mad have Force issues are in PvE.... Most Bal/Mad are running 7/3/31, because Force is not an issue in PvP 9/10 times.

This isn't a debate on what is wrong with this AC.... Obviously it has issues, but this sugesstion is now forming into a alternative to the bubble stun, which is what the Devs are looking for and would solve some of the viability issues of the class in Ranked play.

A party wide; non-stackable buff/debuff. An Anti-Taunt...

Paper meet Rock....