I take it our 'answers' are in the PTS feedback threads, since the patch and discussion seem to address, or at least acknowledge, the questions posted.

It didn't really acknowledge Deception or Phase Walk. They also didn't address the issue of Madness survivability in PVP. They didn't really answer our questions.

It didn't really acknowledge Deception or Phase Walk. They also didn't address the issue of Madness survivability in PVP. They didn't really answer our questions.

They made madness semi-decent in PvE... even though it was something as simple as a proc and a tiny bit more DoT damage... something they couldn't done as a side patch to anything... we're sins we are used to not getting anything, let's just be happy we got this, because we probably won't get anything else.

meanwhile, VGs get yet another DPS buff ...

I take it our 'answers' are in the PTS feedback threads, since the patch and discussion seem to address, or at least acknowledge, the questions posted.

Quote: Originally Posted by ialyxxiieee View Post

I was wondering with these changes and statements made, if the team will still be formally responding to the questions submitted ?

That's the plan! Some of the answers will probably reference changes going on here, but you should still get a response.

I asked the question in which i got the response above from rob

Going to be interesting to see how far behind Deception will be in damage after 2.8 goes live. If I've understood correctly, Madness Sins and Pyro PT's were the closest rivals and they are getting buffed.

I would guess around 400-500 dps, on live with deception i do around 2900 as deception with current gear and around 3000-3100 on madness, on pts i have been around 3400-3500 and thats with alot of screw up and lost dps because i am not used to the rotation

I would guess around 400-500 dps, on live with deception i do around 2900 as deception with current gear and around 3000-3100 on madness, on pts i have been around 3400-3500 and thats with alot of screw up and lost dps because i am not used to the rotation

I recall reading that BW wanted all DPS specs to be within 5-ish % of each other. Something tells me Deception won't make it to the bracket...

I recall reading that BW wanted all DPS specs to be within 5-ish % of each other. Something tells me Deception won't make it to the bracket...

Well Deception have not had their buffs yet maybe in 2.9 zzZzzZzzzzZzzzzZZZZ

Well Deception have not had their buffs yet maybe in 2.9 zzZzzZzzzzZzzzzZZZZ

Indeed, being a more viable choice in Ops would not hurt. Mostly retired my Sin from that stuff for now, because I am gearing alts instead (main is in full 180's) and seeing how much easier it is to DPS through Ops with a Sentinel/Scrapper/Sniper makes me cringe a little. I do love the Deception spec and I am capable of pulling my weight, but getting a little love for the spec would be great.

I would guess around 400-500 dps, on live with deception i do around 2900 as deception with current gear and around 3000-3100 on madness, on pts i have been around 3400-3500 and thats with alot of screw up and lost dps because i am not used to the rotation

You in like 69's + 72's?

You in like 69's + 72's?

now now Evo...

The questions have been answered by the developers in the Shadow forum.

To go Madness or continue my Sin's hiatus in PvE... Leaning towards the latter. A little disappointed, I must admit.

You in like 69's + 72's?

Nope not completly lol just crappy at the specs and far from optimized gear no set bonus etc.

I was rather disappointed to see their response to the deceptiion PvE damage problem. Basically acknowledging that it exists, but they don't know what to do about it in a way that won't unbalance the class in PvP. I'm mostly a PvE person and love playing deception, but it is very hard to get people to take you in a raid group because of the low dps stigma attached.

Kind of silly not to attempt to implement some of the many ideas that have been brought to the table. Improving energy management, tweaking some of the damage very slightly.

This is what PTS is for. Implement these changes and see what happens.. get feedback...

Kind of silly not to attempt to implement some of the many ideas that have been brought to the table. Improving energy management, tweaking some of the damage very slightly.

 

This is what PTS is for. Implement these changes and see what happens.. get feedback...

What they said, however, is pretty much true: they only have so much time to test things in each PTS round. They have less than a month to iron out changes to 5 (might be more) specs right now, and some of the changes are really significant. They also have to, at some point, somewhat un-nerf Orbital Strike, make Rage spec not suck in PVP any more and work out all the content coming up in the next operation(s) and/or flashpoint(s). To be fair, they are kinda busy. Should it have taken them this long? No, and there's no excuse for it not having already happened, considering the rate at which content was being introduced. But at least now we're seeing a lot of communication going on and we can see that they've got a pretty full plate at the moment.

What they said, however, is pretty much true: they only have so much time to test things in each PTS round. They have less than a month to iron out changes to 5 (might be more) specs right now, and some of the changes are really significant. They also have to, at some point, somewhat un-nerf Orbital Strike, make Rage spec not suck in PVP any more and work out all the content coming up in the next operation(s) and/or flashpoint(s). To be fair, they are kinda busy. Should it have taken them this long? No, and there's no excuse for it not having already happened, considering the rate at which content was being introduced. But at least now we're seeing a lot of communication going on and we can see that they've got a pretty full plate at the moment.

Operations and flashpoints are irrelevant for this case, seperate team/employees working on that kind of thing. I would think then that would lead to priorities.

They just nerfed Rage for good reason, so if they are not buffing Deception/Infiltration, I do not know why they would buff Rage after just nerfing it. I'm surprised if they would consider doing anything to orbital strike as the classes that currently use it are in a decent place. They purposelly removed it from rotation due to the fact that guilds would primarily load up on Gunslingers because of that one skill.

They were able to buff two trees at once for Sage/Sorc a few patches ago, so it doesn't come down to workload rather than difficulty and actually wanting to do it.

Operations and flashpoints are irrelevant for this case, seperate team/employees working on that kind of thing. I would think then that would lead to priorities.

 

They just nerfed Rage for good reason, so if they are not buffing Deception/Infiltration, I do not know why they would buff Rage after just nerfing it. I'm surprised if they would consider doing anything to orbital strike as the classes that currently use it are in a decent place. They purposelly removed it from rotation due to the fact that guilds would primarily load up on Gunslingers because of that one skill.

 

They were able to buff two trees at once for Sage/Sorc a few patches ago, so it doesn't come down to workload rather than difficulty and actually wanting to do it.

Except that they went too far with the Rage and Orbital nerfs. They even admitted the Orbital nerf was a bit much. People didn't take lots of Snipers for Orbital Strike, they took them because they did a lot of damage and had a lot of raid utility on top of it. They still have that raid utility, but with the upcoming fixes to the double relic proccing (finally), they actually won't be in the really great spot DPS wise so many people think they are in. Other than Engineering, with their ability to roll in place, every single advanced class will have at least one spec that can do more damage than they can. Both Madness specs, all non-Rage Marauders, Vengeance Juggernauts, Concealment Operatives and Pyrotech Powertechs will all be doing more damage than Lethality, Lethality Hybrid and Marksmanship. I'm simply not counting Engineering because it was obviously not intended to work quite how it does, and on top of that, the devs have also admitted that they're very unsatisfied with how the spec plays.

And what buff for Sorcerers? There have been no serious changes (other than swapping around some talents) to the class since 2.0 dropped.

I have to say I'm disappointed.

It's not that I care about playing the lowest dps PvE class, one class has to be on the bottom; nor is it that the class isn't competitive because they can still complete content.

Part of my disappointment is in that they side stepped the question. Saying deception/infiltration is as good in one aspect of the game as other classes (PvE), and that the other dps spec, balance/madness, should now perform better in PvE/PvP. How many classes have more then 1 viable specs for PvE/PvP? The issue of deception/infiltration PvE low dps was not addressed.

I thought the goal was to have all classes/specs be within 5%. So how does doing nothing to the lowest DPS spec accomplish that? Madness/balance has been the better PvE spec, obviously fight situational but madness/balance is optimal for more fights. What about the players that prefer the play style of deception/infiltration. What’s disappointing is that those players were ignored. Stating the spec is fine in PvP ignores that we about both PvE and PvP. Saying the classes other spec is fine for PvE pushes attention away from both specs are not.

The last thing that put me off is the last part of the response. “In the more distant future”, not the future (looking at it), nor the distant further (it’s on the table to be looked at) but the more distant future (we’ll put it to the side and hope they forget about it). How many threads are there with small things that could be played with to improve the lowest PvE dps spec? I have a feeling these threads have gone unread. The thoughts/input of the community overlooked. I want to make another crack at the “in the more distant future” because it’s pretty ridiculous but I got nothing.

TL : DR - Infiltration/Deception community got ignored.