Jug/Whatever guard also counts as healing. It's implemented as a way for non healers to gain those medals too. It wouldn't be very fair if there were medals that only one specific spec/role/advance class could get their hands on. And honestly, a DPS spec'd sorcerer/sage is pretty much only gonna get healing points from the bubble... our heals when not spec'd are just about as fail as everyone elses heals when they aren't spec'd for it.

Lol, no it doesn't. That's why there's a "protection" column where guarded damage goes, and there are a bunch of medals for that.

The only healing a Jugg/Guardian can do is if they have the Vindicator set bonus so their guardian leap heals them. Well, that and the medpacks/resting stuff that everyone can do.

I concur.

 

Hmmm.. It's a _________ class like other MMOs.. meaning they have to stand still to do most of their damage.... so if i interrupt/kite them and cc them while they are attacking... it should.. cause.... no... damage?

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

applies to everything.

They don't need a nerf. What they need is better talent trees that aren't susceptible to abusive hybrid specs that cause the class to become overpowered through sheer utility and unintended talent combinations.

So you want to homogenize the class by making hybrids less viable and forcing us up one tree or the other? Sounds like another game I know.... No thank you.

Oh, look. Thread number 10 000 about how somebody got destroyed by some class in PvP and decided to make a topic about it.

Oh, look. Sorcerer number 10 000 that wants to preserve how ridiculously overpowered he is so that he can kill everyone easily in his generic build and try to show his "skill" to other players because he has nothing else to show them.

Petty insults seem to be all the sorc community can add to this thread.

 

Marauders are far more difficult than Sorc could ever be just FYI. I really don't know what the Brain Dead Drone part is about. Are you saying I'm a drone for not making a hybrid spec as a Marauder or something? Those don't work with the stance system. I tried at launch and it was terrible. We have 3 full DPS trees though.

 

I don't care that Sorcs have hybrid options. I care that their hybrid options make them overpowered. They're cheating the system by taking talents the devs obviously overlooked from a hybrid standpoint. Moving the Utility talents up the tree doesn't kill the hybrid. It brings them closer to being balanced. It also doesn't change their viability from a PvE standpoint.

 

It's apparent you want to be overpowered. That's something I'm saying "NO" to.

 

You seem to think having a stupidly overpowered hybrid spec adds more flavor or choice. It doesn't. It locks people into a hybrid that's so powerful that 31-point specs look like something only a moron would use.

Hmmm what exact spec am I locked into exactly? I would gladly take any bet you put forth that you will miss the spec I have extreme success with. I would say my spec does well against all classes other than mercenaries and marauders. I also know other hybrid specs (read: choice) that counter the class you play (read: fishing for an easier time) much better.

I think your lack of experience outside the class that YOU play exclusively has blinded you to the truth that not every person playing a class is running this magical I win spec that crushes everything. Do you ever wonder why some sorc's can't shake you and blow up super fast while others drag the fight out over huge amounts of time slowly whittling you down? Naw you don't bother. The ones you kill are just noobs and the ones that beat you are cheating. It is easier to come to the forums and blanket everyone as OP and demand radical changes that will alter both the play style that we signed on for and the effectiveness of the class drastically.

When I see uninformed, opinionated, loudmouth children spewing this garbage on the forums I say "NO".

I actually encounter only 5 sorcerers on my server that give me a challenge most others are bad and I know I can just kill them in a few GCDs due to their sheer stupidity(Lol using a knockback when I've already put my back to a nearby pillar/wall/other). These 5 sorcerers do well when they use full 31-point specs. Recently the started using the hybrid specs and even they started laughing about how unstoppable they felt.

From the way you talk of "choice" and your "super secret special spec" it's pretty clear you're either using the spec I posted with maybe 1-2 talents put somewhere else or you just read the title and didn't bother reading the damn original post.

Read the ENTIRE ORIGINAL POST(THE ONE AT THE VERY BEGINNING) and tell me EXACTLY what you agree and disagree with. Stop posting a bunch of vague bull. It makes you look incredibly oblivious.

Petty insults seem to be all the sorc community can add to this thread.

 

Marauders are far more difficult than Sorc could ever be just FYI. I really don't know what the Brain Dead Drone part is about. Are you saying I'm a drone for not making a hybrid spec as a Marauder or something? Those don't work with the stance system. I tried at launch and it was terrible. We have 3 full DPS trees though.

 

I don't care that Sorcs have hybrid options. I care that their hybrid options make them overpowered. They're cheating the system by taking talents the devs obviously overlooked from a hybrid standpoint. Moving the Utility talents up the tree doesn't kill the hybrid. It brings them closer to being balanced. It also doesn't change their viability from a PvE standpoint.

 

It's apparent you want to be overpowered. That's something I'm saying "NO" to.

 

You seem to think having a stupidly overpowered hybrid spec adds more flavor or choice. It doesn't. It locks people into a hybrid that's so powerful that 31-point specs look like something only a moron would use.

The specc is not overpowered. Marauders are not more difficult to play than Sorcs. Tunnelvision pumping damage into one opponent is all they can do and excel at while a Sorc who wants to fully utilize his class needs to have much better awareness to team mates, positioning and carefully must consider if he can go all out or throw out heals/support or CC.

By the way people already told you that 31 Balance is just as powerful, has less CC but more survival with strong Dots and strong self healing. Not that a complainer like you would listen.

Likewise 31 Healing or hybrid healer specc is just as viable. So spare us the crap that hybrid DPS is the only specc which can do very well.

31 TK sucks hard that much is true though. But instead of wanting that upper TK tier gets interessting enough for players you just want to destroy a specc.

Its hilarious that you tell us all we can do is adding insults.

Newsflash, not only is the discussion old and boring but you also add insults telling players we are braindead playing such a specc basically.

And since you seemed to miss it:

Lvl 50 Prime-time vs other geared 50s is a COMPLETELY different animal.

 

No Sorc or Sage is going to get away from an Assassin or Shadow. They have every single piece of utility that you have (which come with better cds due to talents) sans shield which will be taken care of with one of their shock/project crits. They now have 20 seconds to crit crit crit your health away while you try and channel 800-900 Force Lightning ticks.

 

Merc/Commandos have the same range as sorcs (nullifying some of their utility) and one tracer missile/grav round drops shield. Even if Grav/Tracer is interrupted enjoy being Unloaded/Rail Shotted for 3-4k+ while your Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw hits for maybe 900 a tick, which is also easily interruptible.

 

Maras/Sents DESTROY Sages/Sorcs in a matter of seconds, not tens of seconds. Bleeds, Aoe slows, healing debuff, AOE mezz, leaps, 2 defensive CDs (one makes you invulnerable, other makes Force attacks worthless), speed boost (lasts longer than Force Speed), in combat stealth, accuracy debuff, MASSIVE single target burst dps AND hot healing offer FAR AND AWAY more utility than ONE single target stun, ONE single target mezz and one semi-spammable aoe KB and weak *** shield. Get real.

 

Even DPS specc'd tank AC's outburst Sorc/Sage DPS i.e. Pyrotech PTs and Vanguards. They also do not lack for utility with AOE stuns and grapples. DPS specc'd Juggs/Guards are able to AOE Sweep for 4-5k crits w/o costing resource, reducing (light) armor and rage bursting continuously.

 

Sorcs/Sages were getting out and out facerolled vs Operatives/Scoundrels before their nerf, and now while you MIGHT still have a fighting chance, their burst still far outweighs anything a sorc can do without casting a channeled spell. Which you're going to try and kite them, but any reasonable Op will Sever tendon, which puts a slow on you - which CAN'T be dispelled by a Force user, and by time they catch up to you their CDs have refreshed so its: Flashbang, Backstab, Shiv, Laceration for the final set up of burst.

 

Sorcs/Sages vs Snipers and Gunslingers isn't even a fair argument, using one UP class vs another UP class who's abilities can be easily LOS'd is just being disingenuous and not fit for discussion.

 

Out of ALL the classes in TOR, you knuckleheads want to NERF the one that has lowest single target BURST out of all of them, who as healing isn't even capable of outhealing a competent geared DPS on them, i.e. one using Interrupts and CC, and who doesn't have quite as much utility as you think they do.

 

GG. If you listen to these guys BW your PvP will be proven to be exactly what I think it is already: jack ****.

I guess I have to spam this until even the last terribad like you got the message.

Ah and to your comment about the Sentinel Vid, really he fought undergeared bad players? That he can still easily beat 3v1 fights just like you claim Sorcs can did not get your attention?

That he did not much more than using his two focus generators, puting up dots, pumping out his focus spenders and execute at 20% was basically all he did and when he felt it gets close activated damage immunity and/or instant stealth?

Really that obnoxious?

I actually encounter only 5 sorcerers on my server that give me a challenge most others are bad and I know I can just kill them in a few GCDs due to their sheer stupidity(Lol using a knockback when I've already put my back to a nearby pillar/wall/other). These 5 sorcerers do well when they use full 31-point specs. Recently the started using the hybrid specs and even they started laughing about how unstoppable they felt.

 

 

From the way you talk of "choice" and your "super secret special spec" it's pretty clear you're either using the spec I posted with maybe 1-2 talents put somewhere else or you just read the title and didn't bother reading the damn original post.

 

Read the ENTIRE ORIGINAL POST(THE ONE AT THE VERY BEGINNING) and tell me EXACTLY what you agree and disagree with. Stop posting a bunch of vague bull. It makes you look incredibly oblivious.

Oh here comes the great self glorification.

So I wonder if the specc is so gosh darn overpowered shouldn't terribads beat you still since you know that is one of the main indicators that people beat you albeit they play a lot worse?

So the class is so overpowered that by your own admission just 5 Sorcs on your whole damn server can give you trouble.

Self owned much Mister?

A real soild post. Been wondering why sorcs do so much freaking dmg. Really hope they do something to correct this soon.

Sorcs/Sages have one of the lowest single target burst and about avarage DPS.

They excell at multi target dotting and AoE which is the main reason they get inflated damage numbers especially in WZs like Voidstar.

Same goes for healing, their use of shield greatly inflates the healing done on scoreboards.

I thought by now that was common knowledge.

Not even worth my time to upload pics so I'll just use the ones I posted before. I don't "get destroyed" by anyone. That doesn't mean I don't understand when a class is imbalanced and needs to be fixed.

 

https://imgur.com/a/P3lM4#0

so you got 11 medals..ohh whats this glass on the right .

OK lets be realistic and hopefully other people who post this crap can actually learn something.

you popped your water and got

2.5K heal medal. 1

5k heal medal 2

75k heal medal. 3

So you actually got 11-3 = 8 medals which is quite common, even for sentinels / mauraders and usely the 9-10 is for ppl using protection.

So what can i say nice collection of mass water abuse, and yes other ppl use it in your pictures but it gives the impression your better when infact your just average like rest of the team, maybe worse maybe better who knows but ill tell you this the water addiction has to end.

As a Sorcerer player the hybrid specs are what make the class the most enjoyable experience I have ever had with an mmo. I'm coming from being a frost mage player in WoW, so the playstyle was a natural fit. I don't care if they are op or up, they fit my style more than any other class and that is why I play one.

If BW ever get rid of hybrid specs though the fun factor of the class will drop considerably. The thing is though, every spec has considerable gaps that can be exploited.

Just taking the OP's lightning/madness build that takes every CC ability for example: The build has LOTS of control and the ability to kite exceptionally well. Average sustained damage, okay burst, but very high survivability. In a straight up 1v1 it's pretty hard to kill anybody, but on the flip side you should never die. Your power is in supporting your team with CC and DoTs for constant damage.

The thing I love though is that a variation of the lightning/madness build changes how it plays dramatically. A 13/28 build trades away survivability and control for damage. Once focused you can be fairly easy to drop, but if left alone you will do heavy AoE and considerable single target damage. Your burst is still somewhat lacking, but the big increase in damage on your DoTs is what really makes this spec worth it.

Then you can even hybrid for 1v1 battles. Something along the lines of 18/0/23 plays a game of attrition where you just outlast their damage until your DoTs do them in. You miss out on the control of lightning, and you also miss the AoE from chain lightning.

Take any hybrid spec for a sorc, and it should be easy to see what holes they have in their style compared to what they bring to the table. They all have tradeoffs whether you think so or not OP. If I want extreme cc ability and utility I have to make sacrifices for it contrary to what you have been saying in the thread.

What I think the problem is is that the 31 point talents aren't exciting enough for lightning and madness. I would be okay if they nerfed the specs numberwise, but removing the ability to actually play them is poor. WoW was much more exciting when you weren't forced to go all the way down a tree no matter what. I really hope BW doesn't kill off hybrids. More options is a good thing! Make the 31 point talents more worth it and maybe tweak the hybrid specs from there to bring everything in line with each other.

If you can take a class and have several different but viable ways to play that class then I think that is fantastic game design.

...

...

...

I don't.

As a Sorcerer player the hybrid specs are what make the class the most enjoyable experience I have ever had with an mmo. I'm coming from being a frost mage player in WoW, so the playstyle was a natural fit. I don't care if they are op or up, they fit my style more than any other class and that is why I play one.

 

If BW ever get rid of hybrid specs though the fun factor of the class will drop considerably. The thing is though, every spec has considerable gaps that can be exploited.

Just taking the OP's lightning/madness build that takes every CC ability for example: The build has LOTS of control and the ability to kite exceptionally well. Average sustained damage, okay burst, but very high survivability. In a straight up 1v1 it's pretty hard to kill anybody, but on the flip side you should never die. Your power is in supporting your team with CC and DoTs for constant damage.

The thing I love though is that a variation of the lightning/madness build changes how it plays dramatically. A 13/28 build trades away survivability and control for damage. Once focused you can be fairly easy to drop, but if left alone you will do heavy AoE and considerable single target damage. Your burst is still somewhat lacking, but the big increase in damage on your DoTs is what really makes this spec worth it.

Then you can even hybrid for 1v1 battles. Something along the lines of 18/0/23 plays a game of attrition where you just outlast their damage until your DoTs do them in. You miss out on the control of lightning, and you also miss the AoE from chain lightning.

 

Take any hybrid spec for a sorc, and it should be easy to see what holes they have in their style compared to what they bring to the table. They all have tradeoffs whether you think so or not OP. If I want extreme cc ability and utility I have to make sacrifices for it contrary to what you have been saying in the thread.

 

What I think the problem is is that the 31 point talents aren't exciting enough for lightning and madness. I would be okay if they nerfed the specs numberwise, but removing the ability to actually play them is poor. WoW was much more exciting when you weren't forced to go all the way down a tree no matter what. I really hope BW doesn't kill off hybrids. More options is a good thing! Make the 31 point talents more worth it and maybe tweak the hybrid specs from there to bring everything in line with each other.

If you can take a class and have several different but viable ways to play that class then I think that is fantastic game design.

Good and thoughtful post.

I agree that the hybrid specs do add a bit of flavor to the PvP side of the game and builds like the Non-Utility DPS hybrid feel fine. This type of build allows a player to experience the game in a way that is both inventive and fairly balanced. Even with this build the player gains a decent amount of utility through +20% Static Barrier, 1% healing for DoT crits, more burst/mobility than madness or lightning, etc. It doesn't feel overpowered though. The only problem in my eyes is the amount of CC a Sorcerer can attain through the use of an extreme utility hybrid. This sort of hybrid can literally be unkillable while greatly influencing the outcome of a game just through the use of CCs. The spammable burst AoE damage is just a bonus. That's a balancing issue.

I don't really care if Sorcs are allowed to build hybrid. I don't really mind since I'm slowly leveling a Sorc for the rated WZs in March anyways and it might be fun to switch between hybrid, madness, and on occasion lightning. The only thing I mind is the fact that those utility talents are in such a low part of the tree. When I look at some other ACs I see these sorts of very strong spec defining CCs near the tops of the trees. My own Carnage Tree has both CC talents at the highest two tiers. It's the same with my other two trees as well. Operatives, Snipers, BHs, etc. all have such CC talents high up as well. It seems like a developer oversight that Sorcerers are the exception.

I am proposing only one change and that's moving Electric Bindings and Backlash up 1-2 tiers. To compensate for this change Bioware can make some other Lightning talents like the 5 point "Reverberating Force" into a 3 point talent so that Lightning Spec Sorcerers actually have the opportunity to take more optional talents while maintaining their damage since they're in a sort of weak spot at the moment. Doing this would buff the 31-point tree a bit, keep the balanced hybrid the same, and disallow the abusive CC heavy 0/20/21 hybrid.

Sorc leveling is already relatively easy(coming from a Marauder I'm having a much easier time playing a Sorc during questing) and I highly doubt that the loss of these talents at an early part of the game will make it impossible or overly difficult to do certain quests, afterall basic leveling content can't be balanced around people taking specific talents.

Stuff

1. I ticketed the water and a GM response said it wasn't an exploit. I think it'll still get patched eventually but it's not exactly abusive considering it's basically a workaround to the medpack nerf and since I'm not an Assassin or Operative I can't drop combat instantly and abuse it for an actual advantage.

2. It's impossible for a Marauder to get 11 medals so it was pretty obvious what I was doing. Medals mean nothing anyways. I don't know anyone that judges skill or usefulness through medals.

3. I didn't exactly hide it did I? I could have easily just took the water off my bars before screenshotting but I didn't care.

4. The screenshots were in response to the second poster who claimed that I was some newbie getting spanked by random Sorcerers. The screenshots were meant to disprove that and I think the fact that I had the most damage and few deaths while still helping with objectives did the job fairly well, not the medals. I go for medals when we're either going to win for sure or lose for sure to maximize valor gain, not to show off my L33T medal farming skills.

Newly dinged Sorcs/sages can outheal a battlemaster operative/scoundrel with almost no problem.

And if you disagree, you admit you are bad because you don't understand spell juking.

God I love the first few replies.

They can't argue with anything in the original post, so as usual people go to "UR BAD" then you post cherry picked warzones where you did well and people go "300k DMG? U NEED NERFED INSTEAD"

1. Did you even read the OP?

 

2. Marauders don't have hybrid options. I wouldn't care if you moved around some talents.

 

3. Marauders have some of the lowest burst DPS in the game. We're sustained damage.

 

4. Read. The. Original. Post.

 

---

 

I really dislike how all the sorc/sages are now using attacks against me to try and discredit this thread. Please have some decency and actually respond/reply to the issues I have raised in the original post. Enough with the BS.

Not unless you provide a specific proving point in regards to specifically which synergy between which different skills are exactly "OP" in what manner.

All we sages and sorcerors are hearing from you at this point, is just a blind, vague tantrum of how it is no fair, and how hybrid builds should not be good, ad nauseum.

Besides, it is only natural a DoT-based class has higher total damage output, since it constantly deals at least some amount of damage in certain situations where a purely melee based character, or even some ranged cahracters, might not.

There is nothing wrong or nothing insane about this, since I can casually target every enemies passing me by and cast a simple DoT which is pretty low damage and non-threatening by itself - and that alone would probably push my overall damage count over people who deal damage in actual, prolonged engagements.

The damage count means nothing, without the actual context of how the fight went, and even in such context the actual truth may differe by a wide range, since the reliance on DoTs could mean anything from bleeding someone dead as if you tore their arteries out, to dealing a huge count of trash damage over a longtime and achieving nothing solid.

...

You could compare a sage/sorc who records a high damage count by casting DoTs on 8 people and harming them for 30% HP each, with seven of his friends who take them enemies one on one and finish the rest 70% HP off.

By the damage count alone the sage does 240% damage, while the teammates did only 70% each. Does that mean the sage/sorc is more than 3 times more powerful than other classes?

You're trying to make it sound like it does mean that. We sage/sorcs are saying that's BS.

the reason people are playing hybrid is that other 31 specs are teribad. i'm almost full bm gear and just last week i decied to test every single possible existing sorc spec.

considering the dmg-specs... the 31 points specs SUCK. they're useless in pvp. full lightning is teh suck because the dmg is nonexistent. if they want me to play 31 lightning i want something that is comparable to 31 anihilation or rail shot of pyrotech. it has a 2 seconds casting time and does less dmg than tracer missle.

31 madness spec is useless aswell. it takes like 30 seconds to run out of mana. great...

Damn so much denial in this thread.

Sorc hybrids are boss, period.

A bubble that stuns on damage break? So you either pop your CC-Breaker or eat the stun and let them gain ground. At that time they open up to slow you, then DoT you on instant proc, ticking your for around 700-1k, 1.1-1.3k on crits. If you get too close, they knockback or whirlwind you and gain more ground. If you can catch them off guard, and no bubble they knock back and force speed or knockback and whirlwind if you cc-break.

People that deny the sheer power of these hybrid builds are fooling themselves. Powerful does NOT only mean High Damage Output. It means utility, survivability, control, and damage. With these specs them have all of the above and a good amount of it. What other class has a free all in one barrier/stun? Knockback+root? I mean seriously now, some classes don't even have a gap closer. Oh and let's not forget that affliction CAN NOT be cleansed.

/facepalm

 

Do you see any other Marauders/SWs doing anywhere near as well as me? - No. They're far below the other classes most of the time.

 

Do you see ANY other class in any of the games doing as well as me? - In 1-2 of the games they do about 70% as much as me.

 

Skill plays a large part in PvP. The people I played against had an extreme skill disadvantage. The fact that I'm good doesn't change the fact that Sorcerer hybrid specs are far too powerful. The fact that I was able to do about 400k damage, get 9 medals, and take 0 deaths in a game should tell you how much of a skill gap there was.

Sounds like you think your the best Mara ingame.

Only thing you want to accomplish is make sorc totally free kill instead mostly free kill that its now.

Wont happen.

Your initial post was so well thought out and voiced what most players mean to say when they call sorcs OP. If I were you I wouldn't even bother responding to trolls who are just trying to misdirect. Hopefully when BW pulls its head out of its behind they'll make some of these obvious changes. There's really no defense for that much control on a single class.

Great, lose control gief burst.

Agreed?