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Marauder/Sentinel Set Bonus Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Marauder/Sentinel Set Bonus Discussion
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oofalong's Avatar


oofalong
07.15.2015 , 09:34 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

*snip*
Current Level 60 Set Bonuses (for reference)
  • 2-Piece: Battering Assault or Zealous Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds.
In theory, this set bonus results in a sustained 1% DPS gain due to its 50% uptime. However in practice, it doesn't and its benefit varies based on which discipline you are in due to the 30s lockout time. Carnage | Combat probably comes closest to this 1% while Fury | Concentration is probably farthest. It would be great if this could be uniformly beneficial.

Quote:
  • 4-Piece: Reduces the cooldown of Frenzy or Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases all damage dealt by 3% for 10 seconds.
Ignoring the stat difference the 2.X 4-piece is better due to its 4% increase for 15s. It would be great to see this again.

Quote:
  • 6-Piece: Activating Ravage, Master Strike, Dual Saber Throw, or Twin Saber Throw will grant Weaponmaster's/Challenger's Critical Bonus making your next Vicious Throw, Furious Strike and Annihilate or Dispatch, Concentrated Slice and Merciless Slash critically hit. This effect can't occur more than once every minute.
As others have said, these crit-a-heavy-hitting-ability-once-every-60s bonuses are meh. It provides a randomness to damage dealing that is not ideal for PvP or PvE. As with the 2-piece, the lockout time results in different benefit given the frequency of use for each heavy hitting ability. I'd rather have the 8% damage boost to Ravage | Master Strike then some semi-random crit of any ability.
Oofalong | Oofawrong | Incendiari | Uriyah | Litlah & More
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
You are correct Oofalong.

Kyuuu's Avatar


Kyuuu
07.15.2015 , 01:25 PM | #42
Actual, I Say 4 peice should give berserk 5% boost instead of 2% and you should put as part of 4peice of the 6peice ravage bonus back in but make 5% so as jug spec cant abuse especial the vengeance spec.

Still say our set bonus isnt a problem though

NoAndThen's Avatar


NoAndThen
07.15.2015 , 02:15 PM | #43
I think the 2 piece and 4 piece bonus damage boosts can go and be replaced with increased damage to smash by 10%.

Also Obviously Annihilation and Carnage spec need the same cc immunity as Fury spec so perhaps tie the cc immunity to the set bonus so all 3 specs get it. For example 6 secs of cc immunity after using crush/gore/annihilate.

jauvtus's Avatar


jauvtus
07.15.2015 , 04:24 PM | #44
I see that many ppl fail to understand that right now there are no different PVE and PVP set bonuses. Therefore pls dont make suggestions that benefit PVP only. In opses, we dont need CC immunity, we dont need extra dmg reduction or other PVP survivability things. Ofc it is kinda stupid PVP and PVE share the same bonus, but devs dont seem to change that. So pls give ideas that benefit our dps in both scenes. (This is not a sent/mara issue ofc, i see ppl get carried away in other spec forums too)

I_LUV_CHICKN's Avatar


I_LUV_CHICKN
07.15.2015 , 05:35 PM | #45
Even if this post is ignored, strongly suggest reverting the (4) set bonus piece to the old version of sentinels to pre-3.0. where damage was at 4% for 15s, rather than 3% for 10s when zen is popped. I dont see this being OP, as sentinels are still lacking in alot of areas. change (6) from 1 min CD of auto-crit on Vicious Throw, Furious Strike and Annihilate or Dispatch, Concentrated Slice and Merciless Slash to 45s, this move although can be lethal, hardly keeps numbers up consistently enough in ops. Anybody can be a superstar on a dummy, but when it comes to ops, doesnt matter how good you are, sentinels/marauders have it rough in current ops. period. the patches in 3.1.1 were helpful, but still not justifiable to the debuff's to certain moves in 3.0

I feel sentinel/marauders still have potential for excellent dps numbers, but again, going back to ops. MDPS are pooped on and will continue to be, as mobility is an issue when trying to keep up with dps numbers. I believe there are people out there that can overcome this handicap with this class, but there are necessary changes that need to be made. Bringing back some old set bonus numbers is a start.

For the combat/carnage spec of a sentinel/marauder, which has received very little attention, even after 3.1.1, which is sometimes the case with classes. I feel the combat/carnage move Precision/Gore needs some heavy editing. The 3 second window is rediculous, previously being 4.5s with added damage was fine, dont know why the change. If they should re-visit this, we need Precision/Gore to last 4-4.5s at least, i dont care if there isnt added damage, and put less pressure on timing Master strike/Ravage + Clashing Blast/Devestating Blast during Zen/Berserk Window.

Also for the the utilities. My #1 change if i could make one thing a passive ability and gone from the utility choices is contemplation/Brooding. This is stupid being a utility, We rely on zen/berserk for our dps up time, making this a option, rather than a passive ability takes away from giving us much of any choice to provide us with better viability. A change to the contemplation/Brooding utility point (as much as this should be passive also) under heroic section could be [ Precision/Gore is extended by 1 second and gives an additional alacrity buff of 1% when precision/Gore is activated for duration ]. A name for it could be "Laceration" for Imp spec and "Incision" for Pub spec.

Thoughts?

Skettitangles's Avatar


Skettitangles
07.15.2015 , 10:41 PM | #46
6 piece - keep the same as it already is

4 piece - Reduces the cooldown of Frenzy/Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Zen/Berserk increases all damage dealt by 6% for 10 seconds

2 piece - insert a defensive cooldown reduction or a self heal on an ability activation

jauvtus's Avatar


jauvtus
07.16.2015 , 01:42 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by I_LUV_CHICKN View Post
Even if this post is ignored, strongly suggest reverting the (4) set bonus piece to the old version of sentinels to pre-3.0. where damage was at 4% for 15s, rather than 3% for 10s when zen is popped. I dont see this being OP, as sentinels are still lacking in alot of areas. change (6) from 1 min CD of auto-crit on Vicious Throw, Furious Strike and Annihilate or Dispatch, Concentrated Slice and Merciless Slash to 45s, this move although can be lethal, hardly keeps numbers up consistently enough in ops. Anybody can be a superstar on a dummy, but when it comes to ops, doesnt matter how good you are, sentinels/marauders have it rough in current ops. period. the patches in 3.1.1 were helpful, but still not justifiable to the debuff's to certain moves in 3.0

I feel sentinel/marauders still have potential for excellent dps numbers, but again, going back to ops. MDPS are pooped on and will continue to be, as mobility is an issue when trying to keep up with dps numbers. I believe there are people out there that can overcome this handicap with this class, but there are necessary changes that need to be made. Bringing back some old set bonus numbers is a start.

For the combat/carnage spec of a sentinel/marauder, which has received very little attention, even after 3.1.1, which is sometimes the case with classes. I feel the combat/carnage move Precision/Gore needs some heavy editing. The 3 second window is rediculous, previously being 4.5s with added damage was fine, dont know why the change. If they should re-visit this, we need Precision/Gore to last 4-4.5s at least, i dont care if there isnt added damage, and put less pressure on timing Master strike/Ravage + Clashing Blast/Devestating Blast during Zen/Berserk Window.

Also for the the utilities. My #1 change if i could make one thing a passive ability and gone from the utility choices is contemplation/Brooding. This is stupid being a utility, We rely on zen/berserk for our dps up time, making this a option, rather than a passive ability takes away from giving us much of any choice to provide us with better viability. A change to the contemplation/Brooding utility point (as much as this should be passive also) under heroic section could be [ Precision/Gore is extended by 1 second and gives an additional alacrity buff of 1% when precision/Gore is activated for duration ]. A name for it could be "Laceration" for Imp spec and "Incision" for Pub spec.

Thoughts?
Lacetation and Incision is garbage for 2 disciplines, if you make a suggestion, make something that's good for the entire AC. Also utility tree isnt for increasing dps directly.

farlaum's Avatar


farlaum
07.16.2015 , 09:05 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by jauvtus View Post
I see that many ppl fail to understand that right now there are no different PVE and PVP set bonuses. Therefore pls dont make suggestions that benefit PVP only. In opses, we dont need CC immunity, we dont need extra dmg reduction or other PVP survivability things. Ofc it is kinda stupid PVP and PVE share the same bonus, but devs dont seem to change that. So pls give ideas that benefit our dps in both scenes. (This is not a sent/mara issue ofc, i see ppl get carried away in other spec forums too)
In pvp, you can't enjoy any damage increase because you are stunned all the time (less in Concentration/Fury) or die too fast without a pocket healer, but you are right, the set bonuses are shared and changing it to improve pvp viability could not be the way.

Anyway, the devs don't want to make drastic changes to the set bonuses, so all these posts are going to the auto ignore pile, like someone said.

I_LUV_CHICKN's Avatar


I_LUV_CHICKN
07.16.2015 , 06:07 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by jauvtus View Post
Lacetation and Incision is garbage for 2 disciplines, if you make a suggestion, make something that's good for the entire AC. Also utility tree isnt for increasing dps directly.
Your absolutely correct, I forgot to include all 3 disciplines under the utility system, I meant to say for combat/carnage sents and marauders to make precision/gore 1 second longer, but for all AC's to make contemplation/brooding a completely passive ability and gone from utilities as a choice by replacing with something else that isn't advantageous over other classes. Contemplation/brooding to be honest isnt very advantageous if made completely passive, due to the fact sents/marauders build their zen/berserk throughout all fights to keep numbers up. This goes for all 3 disciplines.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
07.16.2015 , 08:09 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by jauvtus View Post
Sorry, but you are greatly mistaken. Sustained dps always must have higher dps than burst dps, thats one of the most important balancing rules, like it or not
Btw for topic: change 4-piece to the old 4-piece to achieve the 5% bonus intended, also 6-piece is garbage for watchman right now (and afaik from combat friends, not so great there either). Maybe if you werent only focusing on homogenizing classes, you could actually make useful set bonuses for all. But then again, watchman would still be in 2.10 version then.
I think perhaps you mistook my meaning, or more likely my wording was poorly chosen.

My meaning was with regard to a damage bonus, no that a burst spec should do more damage over all than a sustained damage spec. A damage bonus let's say of 5%, even were it given to only Carnage and Fury (which I don't think would be fair, damage bonus should be applied to all or none), it still would not overtake Anni for sustained damage. Burst specs do more damage than sustained specs in the short term, sustained specs do more damage than burst specs in the long term. It can be no other way.

This sort of leaves carnage in a weird spot, because it is no longer a burst spec in the traditional sense, nor a sustained spec, it is equally both.

I'm for any improvements to be for the Marauder class. All the specs have individual needs, to be sure, but to any specific spec a change can only be applied through their respective discipline abilities. A set bonus, nor utilities is the place to affect specs, its a place to affect the Marauder class.

I also agree with you on your thoughts on the "homogenizing of classes". This also extends to the pvp crap. They should not be addressing one bloody thing that regards pvp in overall class amendments or set bonus'. PVP has its own gear and vendors. Give them their own damn set bonus pieces the same way they get their pvp gear. Not a big stretch.

~ Grim